Organic Noob

[TheCauf]

I'm just trying to learn about organic growing and it seems so confusing compared to just using Jacks. I understand SS a little and how to make certain teas. Would a soil made from roots organic, earthworm castings, fish bone meal, dolomite, azomite, blood meal, FF guano, Epsom salt and perlite feed for an entire grow? Or would I just watch for deficiencies and make a tea depending on what she needs?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I'm just trying to learn about organic growing and it seems so confusing compared to just using Jacks. I understand SS a little and how to make certain teas. Would a soil made from roots organic, earthworm castings, fish bone meal, dolomite, azomite, blood meal, FF guano, Epsom salt and perlite feed for an entire grow? Or would I just watch for deficiencies and make a tea depending on what she needs?

I need more information to advise you there.
what strains?
how long vegged
what size containers?
what lights?
and if you are a trump supporter.

 

[TheCauf]

I need more information to advise you there.
what strains?
how long vegged
what size containers?
what lights?
and if you are a trump supporter.

Well nothing for right now, I have an auto sweet tooth coming in but I'll be using Jacks citrus feed and bloom booster for that. I typically use 2,3, and 5 gal smart pots. 250w CFL with 6400k and 2700k bulbs. Will be getting a 600w viparspectre light sometime soon. I've been feeling the Bern since 2014

 

[TheCauf]

M

I need more information to advise you there.
what strains?
how long vegged
what size containers?
what lights?
and if you are a trump supporter.

my tent is 32x32 so I either have 4 2 gallons, 3 3 gallons or 1 5

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Well nothing for right now, I have an auto sweet tooth coming in but I'll be using Jacks citrus feed and bloom booster for that. I typically use 2,3, and 5 gal smart pots. 250w CFL with 6400k and 2700k bulbs. Will be getting a 600w viparspectre light sometime soon. I've been feeling the Bern since 2014

sorry, got distracted at my shop..
ahhh, a fellow Bernie guy
well shit, then I can help you (i'm kidding, i'd even help a trump supporter)
well
maybe.

i'm kiddin

So with the 600 w that's gonna grow em bigger than the cfls (obviously)
so you'll want the 5 gals at least, i'd transplant to the 5 gals about 10-20 days before flipping flower

as for the soil mix, you can use that just fine, i'm not sure you'll need to add d-lime to the mix.
also i'd add some slow release forms of nitrogen and phos to that also, like crab meal or shrimp meal.
adding well composted steer manure is always a good plan as well, provided you match it with aeration.
same to be said about worm castings (crucial)

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I reaaally prefer less soluble nutrients though
guano, Epsom, blood meal and azomite i'd go without, if it were me
BUT that doesn't mean it won't grow herb, just means I do it differently.
But pay that no mind.
if you can't source fish meal, crab meal, kelp meal, and basalt or sft rock phosphates, then you'll be just fine
just possibly will need additional nutrients towards the end to replace the washed away guanos and blood meal.
make sense?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

M

my tent is 32x32 so I either have 4 2 gallons, 3 3 gallons or 1 5

wait...
with just that amount of room i'd go smaller plastic square containers, to fit as many tops as you can.
train clones to two tops a piece
get these.
http://www.hydrogalaxy.com/pots-square-pots/3-gallon-white-square-pot/?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Bing Shopping&utm_content=All Products new&utm_term=1101002975583
you can fit six of those in your area, and have either 12 tops or 24 depending on how you train.
in a 3 gallon a small plant wont be a problem
a ten x ten footprint would match a nicely trained four-cola clone
24 tops of even small colas would get you at least a lb,
or hopefully

 

[TheCauf]

wait...
with just that amount of room i'd go smaller plastic square containers, to fit as many tops as you can.
train clones to two tops a piece
get these.
http://www.hydrogalaxy.com/pots-square-pots/3-gallon-white-square-pot/?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Bing Shopping&utm_content=All Products new&utm_term=1101002975583
you can fit six of those in your area, and have either 12 tops or 24 depending on how you train.
in a 3 gallon a small plant wont be a problem
a ten x ten footprint would match a nicely trained four-cola clone
24 tops of even small colas would get you at least a lb,
or hopefully

What about square 1 gal fabric containers? I grow ALL of my shit in there. Tomatoes, peppers, zucchini, I love the aearation and pruning aspect of them. I've considered filling the whole floor with them and going 12/12 from seed in organics since the grow cycle is so much shorter

 

[TheCauf]

I reaaally prefer less soluble nutrients though
guano, Epsom, blood meal and azomite i'd go without, if it were me
BUT that doesn't mean it won't grow herb, just means I do it differently.
But pay that no mind.
if you can't source fish meal, crab meal, kelp meal, and basalt or sft rock phosphates, then you'll be just fine
just possibly will need additional nutrients towards the end to replace the washed away guanos and blood meal.
make sense?

Yea that makes sense, organic growing appears more of an art form imo. With synthetics you just add a manufactured nutrient salt to the water, but organic is true gardening. My little vegetable greenhouse will be switched to organics soon as well

 

[greasemonkeymann]

What about square 1 gal fabric containers? I grow ALL of my shit in there. Tomatoes, peppers, zucchini, I love the aearation and pruning aspect of them. I've considered filling the whole floor with them and going 12/12 from seed in organics since the grow cycle is so much shorter

personally I've seen a more solid more defined rootball indoors when using plastic containers, also square containers are always more space efficient, and further still their "footprint" tends to match the symmetry of the plant as well, esp if you train to four tops
now outside?
a lil different, outside fabric pots reign
beyond that though, 1 gals are simply too small, unless you are cloning and flipping like a week apart

 

[TheCauf]

personally I've seen a more solid more defined rootball indoors when using plastic containers, also square containers are always more space efficient, and further still their "footprint" tends to match the symmetry of the plant as well, esp if you train to four tops
now outside?
a lil different, outside fabric pots reign
beyond that though, 1 gals are simply too small, unless you are cloning and flipping like a week apart

Ive always been under the assumption plastic pots stunt growth because the roots just circle around?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Ive always been under the assumption plastic pots stunt growth because the roots just circle around?

that's the gimmick behind fabric pots.
also that's with round pots.
roots are roots, doesn't matter which shape they are in, if you have a solid rootball, it's just fine as long as the roots are healthy.
fabric pots don't change any of that, the theory behind it is air-pruning makes the plant redirect root growth elsewhere because the air destroys the root tips.
nothing different is going on in the soilweb in a plastic container, you just have less air-pruning going on, but like I said, in my experience the rootballs are MORE dense in the plastic containers than the fabrics.
I've used extensively both fabric and plastics, and I've gone back to plastics for indoor usage
outdoors is different though

as always the BEST thing to do is decide which you prefer, but I promise ya that you'll yield more with the square pots.
trust me there

 

[greasemonkeymann]

here let me tag a friend of mine, he has the floorplan all figured out
@MustangStudFarm

he's got the floor space maxed out about perfectly

 

[TheCauf]

that's the gimmick behind fabric pots.
also that's with round pots.
roots are roots, doesn't matter which shape they are in, if you have a solid rootball, it's just fine as long as the roots are healthy.
fabric pots don't change any of that, the theory behind it is air-pruning makes the plant redirect root growth elsewhere because the air destroys the root tips.
nothing different is going on in the soilweb in a plastic container, you just have less air-pruning going on, but like I said, in my experience the rootballs are MORE dense in the plastic containers than the fabrics.
I've used extensively both fabric and plastics, and I've gone back to plastics for indoor usage
outdoors is different though

as always the BEST thing to do is decide which you prefer, but I promise ya that you'll yield more with the square pots.
trust me there

https://www.monstergardens.com/Pots-and-Saucers/Plastic-Pots/MaxiPot,-12-Liter
So get a few of these and completely cover the floor or leave a little room?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

https://www.monstergardens.com/Pots-and-Saucers/Plastic-Pots/MaxiPot,-12-Liter
So get a few of these and completely cover the floor or leave a little room?

yup, and no reason to leave space man, maximize it all
let me see if I can find pics of mustangs floor

 

[TheCauf]

yup, and no reason to leave space man, maximize it all
let me see if I can find pics of mustangs floor

If you're making small batches of SS what ratios would you use? I'm not trying to make 210lbs of the shit and that's really all I can find. I'm taking your advice and adding crab meal and also oyster shells. Pretty much every Down to Earth product on monster gardens

 

[greasemonkeymann]

If you're making small batches of SS what ratios would you use? I'm not trying to make 210lbs of the shit and that's really all I can find. I'm taking your advice and adding crab meal and also oyster shells. Pretty much every Down to Earth product on monster gardens

well, the issue is I don't like most of the stuff that the SS uses.
nor do I like the technique of layering.
for nitrogen I like
fish meal, crab meal, alfalfa meal, shrimp meal, steer manure
for phosphorus I like fish bone meal, and crab and shrimp meals
for potassium and micros I like comfrey, kelp meal..langbeinite
the ratios are all predicated on the overall mix
a normal 33/33/33 is desired with 33% of your mix being fresh compost or castings, this is crucial for organic grows as they have the micro-life there to cycle the nutrients. the other 66% being equal parts aeration and coco/peat (I prefer peat if I had to choose)
My mix has lil to no peat in it, lil to no coco in it either, it's all compost and aeration.
for ph control (assuming you are using peat) you'll want oyster flour, and the aforementioned shrimp or crab meals
also biochar can help there too.
for a base mix (one that's empty)
you want 3-4 cups of nutrients
and 1-2 cups of minerals per cubic foot.
NOTE- it is absolutely imperative to choose your microbe source wisely, if you can source worm castings from craigslist or a real "finished" compost (one that is devoid of wood products)
that'll work too.

 

[TheCauf]

well, the issue is I don't like most of the stuff that the SS uses.
nor do I like the technique of layering.
for nitrogen I like
fish meal, crab meal, alfalfa meal, shrimp meal, steer manure
for phosphorus I like fish bone meal, and crab and shrimp meals
for potassium and micros I like comfrey, kelp meal..langbeinite
the ratios are all predicated on the overall mix
a normal 33/33/33 is desired with 33% of your mix being fresh compost or castings, this is crucial for organic grows as they have the micro-life there to cycle the nutrients. the other 66% being equal parts aeration and coco/peat (I prefer peat if I had to choose)
My mix has lil to no peat in it, lil to no coco in it either, it's all compost and aeration.
for ph control (assuming you are using peat) you'll want oyster flour, and the aforementioned shrimp or crab meals
also biochar can help there too.
for a base mix (one that's empty)
you want 3-4 cups of nutrients
and 1-2 cups of minerals per cubic foot.
NOTE- it is absolutely imperative to choose your microbe source wisely, if you can source worm castings from craigslist or a real "finished" compost (one that is devoid of wood products)
that'll work too.

Last question, if I wanted to try a few techniques out and start with SS could I fill 1/4-1/3 of the planting container with it and then mix it with say roots organic or happy frog? I like to experiment with different techniques so I find my niche and SS to me seems like the best option

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Last question, if I wanted to try a few techniques out and start with SS could I fill 1/4-1/3 of the planting container with it and then mix it with say roots organic or happy frog? I like to experiment with different techniques so I find my niche and SS to me seems like the best option

you could...
but I HIGHLY urge you to do a lil research first
and maybe some reading
teaming with microbes, and teaming with nutrients (that one is a lil harder to follow, may need to read a couple times)
the layering concept is highly flawed though..
roots or happy frog by itself is a better idea than layered ss soil.
it sounds opinionated of me to say, but trust me
ss is a flawed technique, using subpar nutrients, using layered soluble nutrients predicated on them being "available" when the roots grow down there?
it's just wrong on many accounts.

 

[TheCauf]

you could...
but I HIGHLY urge you to do a lil research first
and maybe some reading
teaming with microbes, and teaming with nutrients (that one is a lil harder to follow, may need to read a couple times)
the layering concept is highly flawed though..
roots or happy frog by itself is a better idea than layered ss soil.
it sounds opinionated of me to say, but trust me
ss is a flawed technique, using subpar nutrients, using layered soluble nutrients predicated on them being "available" when the roots grow down there?
it's just wrong on many accounts.

This is so hard for me to understand and I don't know why lol. So if I were to start composting, I could mix that with coco, crab meal and everything else you mentioned, and just supplement with tea as deficiencies show? Any links that could point me in the right direction so you don't have to waste any more of your time on me?