So I made myself some CalPhos...

[iHearAll]

Thank you for your due diligence @iHearAll

I don't want to ask you to go out of your way or anything to find some clear answers on this. But if it is for the sake of this thread and discussion, I thank you.

i need to make it anyway.

 

[calliandra]

She's way past crowning now, LOL............I'd definitely be tempted to add the extra COB if it wouldn't send your temps too high, surround that main cola with cobs, get em close as you can(but not directly underneath) and take the reflectors off

Aw shucks haha
Looks like I'll have to do another grow and try and catch the crowniness-moment again LOL

Yeah I do think I'll try adding in that 4th COB

Whereby my worries are more in the downstairs area at the moment.
She's starting to show more and more signs of not being well nourished - in addition to the rust brown spots and discolorations, I have now detected these blotches forming on a few leaves in the upper regions.
Day 44 with 3 weeks to go in theory, it will be more like 4-5. Tad early to just ride it out IMO


And one leaf is already showing me how that will progress


I did have 2 overwatering events when she stopped growing and went back from 3L a day to now just 1 again, so maybe the roots were damaged a bit too... but I do think the main problem is she didn't think before she grew and the amount of soil is just too small for her now.

What to do, since I can't give her the AACT I'd like to (I have no compost at the mo)?
Just give a general feeding with kelp? Make an SST?
Or go and get Epsom salts to push magnesium levels?

 

[Aruanda]

In my fairly noob experience and extensive study, from all appearances that looks to be a P deficiency. I could stand to be corrected, but that is what it appears to be. I've been using The Marijuana Garden Saver handbook by J.C. Stitch as a reference for diagnosis.

 

[Aruanda]

I am currently looking to cultivate a fungal dominant AACT with some Vermicompost a local guy makes but if I can find a good source of forest humus, that's what I'll add too. Then mix it with ground oats and keep moist for a few days until the fungal hyphae really take off then mix that into the AACT with some rock phosphate & high P guano along with some other things. From all indication, cannabis seems to like more fungal dominant soil in flowering and it helps make P more available to the plant at this stage too. But that may depend on you having adequate P in the soil already to be effective? Also I may have some lockout due to higher pH, which from what I've read, the fungal dominance will help lower the pH a bit. Just my 2¢

 

[calliandra]

I am currently looking to cultivate a fungal dominant AACT with some Vermicompost a local guy makes but if I can find a good source of forest humus, that's what I'll add too. Then mix it with ground oats and keep moist for a few days until the fungal hyphae really take off then mix that into the AACT with some rock phosphate & high P guano along with some other things. From all indication, cannabis seems to like more fungal dominant soil in flowering and it helps make P more available to the plant at this stage too. But that may depend on you having adequate P in the soil already to be effective? Also I may have some lockout due to higher pH, which from what I've read, the fungal dominance will help lower the pH a bit. Just my 2¢

Oh all the nutrients are in the soil - in any soil for that matter!
It just seems cycling isn't working sufficiently at the moment.
I wasn't very happy with my microbial herd when I last checked the soil.
And now this plant is just so big, it would need very active guys in the soil to cater to her needs.

So that's why I'm thinking of adding something to feed the plant directly at the mo.
I'm really not sure regarding single nutrients, and have a hunch it'll be a combination of things.
So instead of falling back into the old quick-fix-it mentality, I think I should be looking at something that will add a broad range of goodies...
Thing is, kelp is high on calcium and potassium but has hardly any phosphorus and lower amounts of magnesium. http://feedipedia.org/node/12573

 

[calliandra]

So I opened the closet this morning, and when I saw there was still water left in the saucer.... that sinking feeling when suddenly you know exactly what's wrong.

Yep she's not drinking and all problems are in the roots.
They're coming out of the drainage holes.
AND I overwatered her 3x as her growth slowed - she had been drinking 3L a day during her growth spurt and didn't need those when she stopped.
But down to less than 1L with most of flower ahead is a clear signal.
Grower error. I just sat watching her grow instead of getting a bigger pot right away.
LOL

So my task today is to find a bigger pot.
The maximum I can do is ~15g whereby 10 would probably resolve the current impasse.
I'll use the living soil from my other pot to fill it up, as I don't want to introduce storebought soil of dubious quality right now.
I'd LOVE a smart pot but have to see if there are any in this forsaken town.

And I'll wait with adding the 4th light for a day or two so the changes don't all set in at once.
Let the aggravated roots calm down first.

 

[Orphan Crippler]

So I opened the closet this morning, and when I saw there was still water left in the saucer.... that sinking feeling when suddenly you know exactly what's wrong.

Yep she's not drinking and all problems are in the roots.
They're coming out of the drainage holes.
AND I overwatered her 3x as her growth slowed - she had been drinking 3L a day during her growth spurt and didn't need those when she stopped.
But down to less than 1L with most of flower ahead is a clear signal.
Grower error. I just sat watching her grow instead of getting a bigger pot right away.
LOL

So my task today is to find a bigger pot.
The maximum I can do is ~15g whereby 10 would probably resolve the current impasse.
I'll use the living soil from my other pot to fill it up, as I don't want to introduce storebought soil of dubious quality right now.
I'd LOVE a smart pot but have to see if there are any in this forsaken town.

And I'll wait with adding the 4th light for a day or two so the changes don't all set in at once.
Let the aggravated roots calm down first.

Perhaps you should consider letting her dry out completely to the point of leaf droop before you water her once more but this time with a potent brew of aact and some em1. If you don't have any compost you could substitute a handful of quality soil from a spot where the plants are very happy as the point is not to fertilise rather to increase microheard.
Just my 2c

Hope it all comes right

 

[calliandra]

Thanks guys for your help in thinking this through!
She was rootbound


Interesting to see how far down the sand already got pulled by the worms & roots!
And thankfully, I do not see root rot. Anyone else?
Either way, another 5 weeks like this would have been just impossible, I think I just spared everyone lots of moaning and worrying from me haha

I'm pretty sure she will recover in the next few days - and YES, @Orphan Crippler! That's just genius out-of-the-wormbox thinking there, to take some good soil and AACT that!
LOL sometimes I get so set on something I forget to look around! Thank you for getting me out of that rut!
I have some soil from my other pot left over - and it's marvelous, I found I have a bunch of worms in there, and pockets of the soil felt like pure castings! I'll bubble a cup of that

Another interesting find: the lavarock in the other pot had sunk pretty much to the bottom third.
Made sense immediately when I saw it... and is going to have implications for future no-tills.
Dam I should've marked my pots, not sure how many runs this one has had. I think just 2...

So here she is, at day 45, in her new 40L pot (the largest that fits the closet), now standing a bit higher in the pot, and at 97cm from the soil

Aaaand... main cola - above the lights, of course haha
I'll fix that when the 4th goes in on Sunday, along with the AACT.

And then!!! we'll see if those red leaf stems pale down again (the shrivelled and spotted leaves won't recover).
@ColaKoala13 when you pointed those out as a sign of P upset, I checked other grows and, yes, while it does redden up a little bit, never as much as the ones on mine have gotten.
Looking forward to seeing if that is reversible or will just stop spreading

Whereby, she's blooming, and she's going to be a sticky one by the looks of her..

Cheers!

 

[Orphan Crippler]

Up potting was no doubt the best available option. Nice work there.

If you like to grow your single larger plants then I may have a potential solution that could work out nicely for you. The AutoPot Xl is a 25L pot with an aqua valve for automatic bottom feed waterings. This enables one to grow a beast of a plant in a relatively small pot and many have done so organically as well. I managed to pull 828g from a single haze in on of these pots, granted it was mineral but If I had used an organic soil I think I could easy have a plant about a half to 2/3 with a loaded soil due to not vegging for as long.

I really like the way your plant has been trained it looks super bushy

 

[Orphan Crippler]

I was worried about the potential for root rot but those roots show a healthy picture!

 

[calliandra]

I was worried about the potential for root rot but those roots show a healthy picture!

Ah thank you, my mind is at rest then :

Up potting was no doubt the best available option. Nice work there.

If you like to grow your single larger plants then I may have a potential solution that could work out nicely for you. The AutoPot Xl is a 25L pot with an aqua valve for automatic bottom feed waterings. This enables one to grow a beast of a plant in a relatively small pot and many have done so organically as well. I managed to pull 828g from a single haze in on of these pots, granted it was mineral but If I had used an organic soil I think I could easy have a plant about a half to 2/3 with a loaded soil due to not vegging for as long.

I really like the way your plant has been trained it looks super bushy

I'll definitely have a look at those, thanks!
I am thinking of making my growspace a bit larger at my new place, it'S ridiculous that not even an auto had space to grow freely in there, she's quite squished!
Yeah she IS a beauty! And to think all I really did was pull her branches outward a bit
Cheers!

 

[iHearAll]

Thanks guys for your help in thinking this through!
She was rootbound
View attachment 3816432

Interesting to see how far down the sand already got pulled by the worms & roots!
And thankfully, I do not see root rot. Anyone else?
Either way, another 5 weeks like this would have been just impossible, I think I just spared everyone lots of moaning and worrying from me haha

I'm pretty sure she will recover in the next few days - and YES, @Orphan Crippler! That's just genius out-of-the-wormbox thinking there, to take some good soil and AACT that!
LOL sometimes I get so set on something I forget to look around! Thank you for getting me out of that rut!
I have some soil from my other pot left over - and it's marvelous, I found I have a bunch of worms in there, and pockets of the soil felt like pure castings! I'll bubble a cup of that

Another interesting find: the lavarock in the other pot had sunk pretty much to the bottom third.
Made sense immediately when I saw it... and is going to have implications for future no-tills.
Dam I should've marked my pots, not sure how many runs this one has had. I think just 2...

So here she is, at day 45, in her new 40L pot (the largest that fits the closet), now standing a bit higher in the pot, and at 97cm from the soil
View attachment 3816453
Aaaand... main cola - above the lights, of course haha
I'll fix that when the 4th goes in on Sunday, along with the AACT.

And then!!! we'll see if those red leaf stems pale down again (the shrivelled and spotted leaves won't recover).
@ColaKoala13 when you pointed those out as a sign of P upset, I checked other grows and, yes, while it does redden up a little bit, never as much as the ones on mine have gotten.
Looking forward to seeing if that is reversible or will just stop spreading

Whereby, she's blooming, and she's going to be a sticky one by the looks of her..
View attachment 3816454
Cheers!

o baby

 

[iHearAll]

pH between 3-4 when im starting. some will evaporate and the pH will neutralize. vinegar evaporates faster than water. 180F where as water is 210F

 

[whitebb2727]

I call crowning the final swell at the end.

Similar to this.

 

[calliandra]

I call crowning the final swell at the end.
View attachment 3816527
Similar to this.

LOL yeah that also makes sense - so our princesses are twice crowned?

 

[calliandra]

So here we are at day 52, near midbloom I'd say


I'm still getting a feel for the new pot size, wouldn't have thought it would make such a difference, plus, of course the plant is feeding differently now than in veg.

The leaf symptoms are continuing to spread, and have taken on all sorts of forms, including a few yellowings.
But interestingly, this is happening much more on the left side, which has 2 COBs on it, than on the right.
So I still haven't added the 4th light, in part to see the difference - I actually have the feeling the buds on the right, healthier, less lighted side are juicier.

But all in all, she doesn't look like she is terribly deficient:

One of the 12 secondary colas

And undergrowth:

 

[Aruanda]

@iHearAll what percent acidity is on the label of your white vinegar? I can only find 4% where I am at, which the ACV (apple cider vinegar) is the same. I crushed up a bunch of egg shells and pan fried them until a majority turned black and stunk up my kitchen and myself and I got a reaction when I used the same vinegar the bone meal was in, added a bit more while I was at it. The reaction settled down a few hours later though and I have it loosely sealed.

 

[iHearAll]

my bottle is 5% acidity.

So here we are at day 52, near midbloom I'd say
View attachment 3822625

I'm still getting a feel for the new pot size, wouldn't have thought it would make such a difference, plus, of course the plant is feeding differently now than in veg.

The leaf symptoms are continuing to spread, and have taken on all sorts of forms, including a few yellowings.
But interestingly, this is happening much more on the left side, which has 2 COBs on it, than on the right.
So I still haven't added the 4th light, in part to see the difference - I actually have the feeling the buds on the right, healthier, less lighted side are juicier.

But all in all, she doesn't look like she is terribly deficient:

One of the 12 secondary colas
View attachment 3822627
And undergrowth:
View attachment 3822626

woo that thing is massive

 

[calliandra]

my bottle is 5% acidity.

woo that thing is massive

yeah, I think she's taught me that when a plant starts taking off like she did, standing staring open-mouthed is not adequate care haha
In future they'll get support for that growth when it happens, not after.
I just picked up something about deficiencies already being in the tissues before they become visible...
Cheers!

 

[calliandra]

Well!
When I opened the closet this morning, I was greeted by a plant that makes a much more vital impression than she has been these past days.
I have given her kelp juice twice since repotting, and it seems that yesterday's serving turned her around. It's just a minute change in overall hue (couldn't really capture it on pix), but it sets my mind at rest. Some of the damaged leaves seem to be regaining their color, while I am also seeing more burnt leaf tips lol.
Gladly accepting those as the price for her revival.

And now I feel I can finally add the 4th light too.