1st 2 pulls out my mkiii. Wtf am I doing?

Toohighmf

Well-Known Member
image.jpeg image.jpeg Yooooooo

Just got everything to run passive for now to get my feet wet. I have a 450g spool and 6x12 collection pot. No dewax.

I aquired some older dry super blue cookie trim, and some older frozen Skywalker OG live stuff
1st batch of the dry netted me a nice yield of some very dark thick bubbly stuff that didn't get introduced to heat for 12 hours. Since then, it has been burped a few times at a constant 90f, but at full vac for the last 3 days, And has stayed 1/4'' thick and full of micro bubbles.

When it came out of the platter, it was already very thick and "dry" like cotton candy or caramel, and started turning very light color with every whip around the platter. After sitting under full vac for 12 hours (because I left the vac pump and heat pad at the lab) it got darker and stayed a muffin the whole time til I could get back to the shop to drop it and raise periodically. I think I pulled too much tane in recovery, as I waited until it was almost completely not bubbling anymore.

The next batch, was the live resin run, and it was super hot outside, and my bro was lagging hard. We melted through most of our dry ice way too fast. I feel like we didn't run cold enough at all, but recovered with a lil more tane left in the pot, as it bubbled when I opened it, but still couldn't get it to "pour" and had to scrape. I got less than half of what I did the previous run.

Based on what you see and read.
Am I correct to say that I recovered too much tane, and that the live resin batch yielded less because of the temps lot being subzero?
Is it my purging technique of accidentally leaving at full vac without heat overnight what caused the microbubbling and darkness?

Someone please help me make good shatter!!
 

Toohighmf

Well-Known Member
image.jpeg Stopped the vac after about 100 hours through testing thoroughly. Upped the temp to 107F overnight and it shattered up really well. A little dark, but tasty AF! The live resin came out like buttery light brown sugar and tastes even better. Got about 22g of shatter and 19 of live. Gonna try again tomorrow with greenhouse trainwreck nug/trim.
 

Afgan King

Well-Known Member
View attachment 3818837 Stopped the vac after about 100 hours through testing thoroughly. Upped the temp to 107F overnight and it shattered up really well. A little dark, but tasty AF! The live resin came out like buttery light brown sugar and tastes even better. Got about 22g of shatter and 19 of live. Gonna try again tomorrow with greenhouse trainwreck nug/trim.
Not bad and ya the live supposed to u can shatter it but I like the sugar wax tastier and some people only know live resin as sugar wax. Either way what's your chamber look like? Got an oven?
 

Toohighmf

Well-Known Member
Thank you AK. I'm using a $150 eBay 5gal 12x16" vacuum chamber/3cfm vac pump
And a 15gal 16x16 best value vac chamber, and CPS 6cfm pump.
I run matching sized BVV PID heat mats under each.
 

KLITE

Well-Known Member
Did you wipe down every single inch of your steel with alcohol? It comes with this mean lubricant that can adulterate your end product.
 

Toohighmf

Well-Known Member
image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg Yeah. I'm pretty sterile. I used to work in China, so I know how filthy most products come from there.
I distill my Tane too. Just did another couple nug runs. Getting a little better each time. Learning a lot as I go. This run was greenhouse grown nug run of DJ Short's blueberry x banana OG x Trainwreck.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
@Fadedawg GW, I think he needs a hand.
I think we may have covered this on another forum, but tattered old faded blue dogs memory shorter.

Please remind me what vacuum levels you are achieving and your elevation?

Total resin yields from cured and fresh frozen are approximately the same, but you have to run more loads to extract fresh frozen, because of the extra bulk and weight of the water.
 

Afgan King

Well-Known Member
I think we may have covered this on another forum, but tattered old faded blue dogs memory shorter.

Please remind me what vacuum levels you are achieving and your elevation?

Total resin yields from cured and fresh frozen are approximately the same, but you have to run more loads to extract fresh frozen, because of the extra bulk and weight of the water.
Agreed yield is same just gotta run what seems like more but its not. I use my mkc4 pack somewhat with fresh frozen never real tight pack then let sit on dry ice for 30mins flip tube for another 30 then blast and it's perfect Everytime. Fresh frozen just has those extra terps
 

Toohighmf

Well-Known Member
Fadedawg, is that you, the master?? GW?? I started this thread about 3 days after getting no action at IC. I kept it going to get different opinions on the process. You have been invaluable! Still so much to learn. I'm approx 400' above sea level, so I'm hitting 29.9.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Fadedawg, is that you, the master?? GW?? I started this thread about 3 days after getting no action at IC. I kept it going to get different opinions on the process. You have been invaluable! Still so much to learn. I'm approx 400' above sea level, so I'm hitting 29.9.
Graywolf yes, master, not so much...............

We should maybe first define the term shatter??? I define it as a scale that ranges from glass brittle at room temperature, to pull and snap, which is slightly pliable, but not tacky at room temperatures.

To be brittle at room temperature requires high levels of carboxylic acid as a percent of the whole. It is the attached COOH carboxyl group, that raises their melting point and stiffens them. Once it is removed, the melting point is closer to ambient, so they become looser and tacky at those temperatures.

Retained solvent and water also makes them looser, so both need to be purged.

High levels of C-30 plant waxes make the mixture pliable and cloudy.

Lastly, and more to my point, is that monoterpenes are alcohols, ethers, esters, aldehydes, and ketones, so are solvents themselves.

It doesn't take many monoterpenes mixed with the carboxylic acids, to turn a brittle mix to a pull and snap. As a tongue in cheek overall thought, more monoterpenes mean more aroma and flavor, so more is gooder, up to some point where it is just too, too much.

Besides the C-10 monoterpenes and C-15 sesquiterpenes, where as a general rule, more is better, there are the C30 group where mostly more is badder.

Ostensibly the only good thing in the ~C29/33 group, are the C-30 flavonoids, but with them come the plant waxes, chlorophyll, and the anthro cyanin plant pigments/glucosides.

Not only do they dilute the mixture, making the carboxylic acids a smaller percent of the whole, but they darken it. Especially the chlorophyll and anthro cyanins. The anthro cyanins not only are plant color pigments, they are plant sugars that caramelize with heat and darken.

The best way I've found to get the best product, which for me is typically a pull and snap, is to start with young material, still in the carboxylic acid state. It can be done cured or fresh frozen. Easier to get stable gem quality shatter with most of the water removed first, and I consider that after hanging until the small twigs snap, it is ready to extract.

If I'm extracting fresh frozen, I cut the buds up into about 1/2" chunks and pack the columns before freezing them, so to not expose the trichomes to atmospheric moisture, so they coat with ice.

With both, I prefer the columns at around 0F and the LPG mixture (7/30-50/50%) at around -40C. I don't soak and run approximately three column volumes of LPG through them, first from the bottom, followed by a top flush.

That isn't going to work for you passively, but if you put your lower tank in dry ice and alcohol/water mix, and use a warm vapor pressure assist tank (or N2) to exert enough pressure on the chilled tank, to push it through a heat exchanger on the way to the column, and flood from the top only, you can come close.

I like to finish in a cotton candy foam shatter, because you can't get a thinner film to purge from than the walls of a bubble, so it removes more of the butane before it leaves the Terpenator. You can achieve the same thing with an active or passive system, by switching from recovery to high vacuum as soon as the butane pool is visibly gone and only random bubbles appear. Once it inflates into a foam, I hold it there until it dries stiff and brittle.

I then back fill with N2, vacuum to -29.5" Hg again and backfill with N2 again, before opening. I like to freeze the pot to further stiffen it and then just whisk it to powder with a spatula, and pour/spread it onto parchment sheets in a stainless tray.

I preheat the oven to 115F and set the tray inside. I note the temperature that the powder turns fully liquid, and reset the oven to that temperature, before starting the vacuum and pulling until the muffin starts to foam up and holding at that level until it calms down and then continuing down to around -29.5, stopping and holding as necessary on the way.

When the bubbles slow down, I take the sheet out of the oven, place another parchment sheet over the top, and flip the patty, then peeling away the now top sheet and replacing it in the oven. Repeat that finish procedure until the solvent bubbles cease and only CO2 bubbles fizzle here and there, mostly around the edges.

Remove at that point and cool, before testing extensively.
 

Afgan King

Well-Known Member
Graywolf yes, master, not so much...............

We should maybe first define the term shatter??? I define it as a scale that ranges from glass brittle at room temperature, to pull and snap, which is slightly pliable, but not tacky at room temperatures.

To be brittle at room temperature requires high levels of carboxylic acid as a percent of the whole. It is the attached COOH carboxyl group, that raises their melting point and stiffens them. Once it is removed, the melting point is closer to ambient, so they become looser and tacky at those temperatures.

Retained solvent and water also makes them looser, so both need to be purged.

High levels of C-30 plant waxes make the mixture pliable and cloudy.

Lastly, and more to my point, is that monoterpenes are alcohols, ethers, esters, aldehydes, and ketones, so are solvents themselves.

It doesn't take many monoterpenes mixed with the carboxylic acids, to turn a brittle mix to a pull and snap. As a tongue in cheek overall thought, more monoterpenes mean more aroma and flavor, so more is gooder, up to some point where it is just too, too much.

Besides the C-10 monoterpenes and C-15 sesquiterpenes, where as a general rule, more is better, there are the C30 group where mostly more is badder.

Ostensibly the only good thing in the ~C29/33 group, are the C-30 flavonoids, but with them come the plant waxes, chlorophyll, and the anthro cyanin plant pigments/glucosides.

Not only do they dilute the mixture, making the carboxylic acids a smaller percent of the whole, but they darken it. Especially the chlorophyll and anthro cyanins. The anthro cyanins not only are plant color pigments, they are plant sugars that caramelize with heat and darken.

The best way I've found to get the best product, which for me is typically a pull and snap, is to start with young material, still in the carboxylic acid state. It can be done cured or fresh frozen. Easier to get stable gem quality shatter with most of the water removed first, and I consider that after hanging until the small twigs snap, it is ready to extract.

If I'm extracting fresh frozen, I cut the buds up into about 1/2" chunks and pack the columns before freezing them, so to not expose the trichomes to atmospheric moisture, so they coat with ice.

With both, I prefer the columns at around 0F and the LPG mixture (7/30-50/50%) at around -40C. I don't soak and run approximately three column volumes of LPG through them, first from the bottom, followed by a top flush.

That isn't going to work for you passively, but if you put your lower tank in dry ice and alcohol/water mix, and use a warm vapor pressure assist tank (or N2) to exert enough pressure on the chilled tank, to push it through a heat exchanger on the way to the column, and flood from the top only, you can come close.

I like to finish in a cotton candy foam shatter, because you can't get a thinner film to purge from than the walls of a bubble, so it removes more of the butane before it leaves the Terpenator. You can achieve the same thing with an active or passive system, by switching from recovery to high vacuum as soon as the butane pool is visibly gone and only random bubbles appear. Once it inflates into a foam, I hold it there until it dries stiff and brittle.

I then back fill with N2, vacuum to -29.5" Hg again and backfill with N2 again, before opening. I like to freeze the pot to further stiffen it and then just whisk it to powder with a spatula, and pour/spread it onto parchment sheets in a stainless tray.

I preheat the oven to 115F and set the tray inside. I note the temperature that the powder turns fully liquid, and reset the oven to that temperature, before starting the vacuum and pulling until the muffin starts to foam up and holding at that level until it calms down and then continuing down to around -29.5, stopping and holding as necessary on the way.

When the bubbles slow down, I take the sheet out of the oven, place another parchment sheet over the top, and flip the patty, then peeling away the now top sheet and replacing it in the oven. Repeat that finish procedure until the solvent bubbles cease and only CO2 bubbles fizzle here and there, mostly around the edges.

Remove at that point and cool, before testing extensively.
Agree with everything 100% and even got to learn nice post I agree the snap and pull is better all day in every way lol
 

Toohighmf

Well-Known Member
GW, I'm reading this over and over, and am learning so much from it, as I begin to understand it. I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge you share. I wish there was a way to pay it back in some way. Thank you.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
GW, I'm reading this over and over, and am learning so much from it, as I begin to understand it. I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge you share. I wish there was a way to pay it back in some way. Thank you.
You're in luck! You can pay me back by paying it forward!

Bon appetite!
 
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