FEMINIZED seeds are NO guarantee of 100% female plants!

Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
I have had this contention sense Dutch Passion made the first "feminized seeds"!
All together too many seed producers will post something like this from Sensi Seeds.

"All plants grown from the feminized strains sold on this website will be genetically female."

This is bull shit! Here's another breeder's take on feminized seeds and that 100% female BS!

"Now we've covered how they are made... we still have to cover WHY and If it
works.

When I am making reversed lines, there is only one reason I do it. It is NOT to
make it easier for a person to produce an entirely female crop(I'll explain more
later on why this isn't a concern) - I do it to produce a pure line (IE:
Selfing) or if I want to cross a specific line to another and there are no
available males from one of the lines (IE - crossing 2 different clone-onlies).
Essentially I do it to keep lines as true to the clones and selections I've
made.

Why do I not think it's a concern in this situation to try to make an all female
line? Because it can't be guaranteed to always be female and not produce males.

Sexual expression is 50% determined by environment. I don't know how everyone's
grow room is that buys my gear...I don't know how they feed, I don't know what
temp it is, I don't know what medium, etc... There is no way to guarantee the
sexual expression of a plant when 50% of the determining variables are out of
our control. And it's not just us, it's any seed company that can't factor in
all of those variables. It really is as simple as that. there are certain
things you can do to increase the likelihood through chemicals after a flower is
blooming (in the case of cannabis, use ethephon or dutch master reverse -
ethylene is the opposite of gibberelins - kinda like how estrogen is the
opposite of testosterone).

So...in the end... who is right? Neither. Both are retards."

So? Who is this guy to say that the big seed producers are wrong? He right! That's why!

I have myself, in the past. Had males come from "Feminized" seeds twice (2 times). I never gave it a second thought! I mean, I know that environment lakes a difference in final plant sex determination!

If you keep your seedling at over 80 deg F. You have far better chances of more females to males over 70/30 female to male! IF, your seedling area temps are low 70's......You are going to be 50/50 and not do much if at all better!

Now the chance for a male from feminized is increased by those same little temp rules!

I popped 5 seeds from Mephisto Genetics. Skywalker OG AUTO FEM seeds.
3 seeds are growing out perfectly normal! (No, your right, I'm not a fan of auto seeds. I thought it might be fun to accept the offer of free seeds and run them along side others doing the same. After all I was just getting fired back up, so why not!

1 seed had a dual embryo and I slip the seedlings carefully, just to see what they would do. (They are not growing at the rate of the normal plants and 1 is very small and will produce no more then about a blunt's worth.

The last seed popped and is pictured here as a growing plant in a 1 gallon pot.
It is 100% natural, ball dropping MALE! Now it's 3 times I have had this happen! ALL of the times I was popping and developing the seedlings in a cooler environment of 70-72 day and and 65 nights! When I got MALES from "feminized" seeds!

Pics for plant size and BALL porn!

20161212_080628.jpg 20161212_080641.jpg 20161212_080712.jpg

BALLS - 100% full on MALE from "feminized seeds"!!!

Us old guys are trying to set the record straight for ya!

No such thing as 100% females from "feminized" seeds!

I have NO use for ruderalis genetics in a pollen, so this one is outa here!

Now before you begin any comment on herming of fem seeds...I'll say this -

Herming was a problem in the old days. The plant was stressed to make it throw "Banana's" that would pollinate blooms and make unstable "female" seeds!

This process is NOT used any more.

Chemical or hormone induced "selfing" (a better term for feminizing) of a plant will make the plant actually "turn" male where treated...It throws actual balls! This produces stable and very consistent 99.9% female seeds. just keep in mind that cool upbringing of seedlings can give you a male from selfed seeds!

Happy trails!
 
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Bareback

Bareback

Well-Known Member
Thanks @Dr Who the comments about gemination at lower temps explains a lot , I never thought about it, and it has been my experience as well. Ohh and the duel embryo, I thought I was in the twilight zone when it happened to me lol.
 
chemphlegm

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
I've made fem seeds, bought hundreds, never seen a hermie or a boy resulting from those fem'd seeds. I am sorry this happened to you.
I suspect a reputable breeder did not cause this, but rather a re seller mixing up seeds.

and another thing....

"If you keep your seedling at over 80 deg F. You have far better chances of more females to males over 70/30 female to male! IF, your seedling area temps are low 70's......You are going to be 50/50 and not do much if at all better!

Now the chance for a male from feminized is increased by those same little temp rules!"

this is 100% total bullshit! read a little about genetics and chromosomes, you'll see, try wiki, etc. this is old chit from the 70's, regurgitated in jorge cervantes grow bible. he since admits his error.
 
ruwtz

ruwtz

Well-Known Member
This was a surprise to me too when 3 of 6 "fem" seeds turned out to be male after the flip and a solid 8 week veg. Very frustrating.

24K Gold aka Kosher Tangie by DNA Seeds.

I wrote to DNA (Amsterdam) and they said since they don't retail in the US they couldn't assist me.

Funny cos I boUght the seeds at a CA dispensary.

Sloppy breeding, Useless customer service.

BLAME Trump
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
I'm still batting 100% on femmed seeds being female. But I haven't reached the 1000 mark yet for seeds germed.

If you're saying you can only expect 99.9% female, I'm ok with them advertising 100% results. Close enough in my book.
Click to expand...
me too. i'm at about that same percentage.

i did buy some autos (not labeled as auto fems) that had 1 male, 2 females of the 3 beans i popped.

i'd rather buy 100 fem seeds and have 1 male than a 100 regulars and get 30 to 50 males.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
chemphlegm said:
I've made fem seeds, bought hundreds, never seen a hermie or a boy resulting from those fem'd seeds. I am sorry this happened to you.
I suspect a reputable breeder did not cause this, but rather a re seller mixing up seeds.

and another thing....

"If you keep your seedling at over 80 deg F. You have far better chances of more females to males over 70/30 female to male! IF, your seedling area temps are low 70's......You are going to be 50/50 and not do much if at all better!

Now the chance for a male from feminized is increased by those same little temp rules!"

this is 100% total bullshit! read a little about genetics and chromosomes, you'll see, try wiki, etc. this is old chit from the 70's, regurgitated in jorge cervantes grow bible. he since admits his error.
Click to expand...
Really? So sorry for you chem.... It's true and it happens - PERIOD! Nature has a sense of humor to the science end of genetics! Shit happens and that is not very likely a mixed up seed......I've seen several different seed producing operations......the way it's handled and at one strain at a time.....They were all the right femmed seeds.....this was from the Vault's comparative grow and all seed pkg's were directly sent to the vault, by Mephisto, directly for this test and promotion......

Now as far as your suggestion to read up.....done long years ago and I sure didn't be influenced by any of his writing!
Actually doing can trump written work.....Have YOU tried it!

It's how it goes here - no matter how you supply the evidence. Someone has to cry BS......

So, you've given your opinion - sit on the fence and watch then...
 
chemphlegm

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
perplexing? [environment]
the sex of the seed, as its being fertilized in the mother grow room by male pollen...the conditions of THAT room
will affect the amount of seeds that will be chromo sexed one way or the other(long before the seeds even ripens btw).
 
chemphlegm

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
no need to apologize dr who, I won the fem'd seed experience with a 100% success rate, others have lost, something must be up.
chromosomes are not changing sex of seeds while they sit in the seedpack, trust me. long before they see your water they are set in stone. they may show both sexes, but only females do that too.
 
Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
elkamino said:
Curious. Can you back this up with something other than your experience please?

And when you say "Sexual expression is 50% determined by environment", are you saying this is limited to cannabis? Or other plants/species, too?
Click to expand...
Good question, I've seen a lot of stuff on how to increase your females in reg seeds. Stuff like germination temps. I have no idea if that stuff is stoner legend or legit. Any scientific stuff on this topic that people can post would be great!
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
elkamino said:
Curious. Can you back this up with something other than your experience please?

And when you say "Sexual expression is 50% determined by environment", are you saying this is limited to cannabis? Or other plants/species, too?
Click to expand...
That is taken from another breeders post from HIS web site.....I did not print that as being any more then a partial belief, derived from over 40 years of growing.......

Personally. I believe in the ability of temp levels affecting the outcome of male to female ratio's in popping and raising seedlings.

Hot wise, The best I ever did was 16 of 20 female to male in. When doing it again with cooler popping and seedling temps (plants aged to be out of solo cups or the first real transplant).....I only got 11 of 20 female to male. Same straight run seeds. From the same parent plant.....Exodus Cheese - real from cut strain.

I have never attempted to get results from other plants. There is nothing else I grow that I care one way or another what sex the plant is.....
 
chemphlegm

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
There are many other environmental systems. Some species, such as some snails, practice sex change: adults start out male, then become female. In tropical clown fish, the dominant individual in a group becomes female while the other ones are male, and bluehead wrasses (Thalassoma bifasciatum) are the reverse. In the marine worm (Bonellia viridis), larvae become males if they make physical contact with a female, and females if they end up on the bare sea floor. This is triggered by the presence of a chemical produced by the females, bonellin. Some species, however, have no sex-determination system. Hermaphrodite species include the common earthworm and certain species of snails. A few species of fish, reptiles, and insects reproduce by parthenogenesis and are female altogether. There are some reptiles, such as the boa constrictor and Komodo dragon that can reproduce both sexually and asexually, depending on whether a mate is available

anything is possible, wiki says.
 
ISK

ISK

Well-Known Member
@Dr. Who
as we discussed a week ago, I also had a Crop King auto-fem turn male....I was so disappointed as it was my best indoor sunshine gal of the year
P5290010.JPG

But I'm less convinced that environment does influence gender...as you may remember my experiment "Can the environment influence gender"
https://www.rollitup.org/t/can-the-environment-influence-the-gender.846902/

Since the experiment only had 3 plants in each environment it cannot be consider conclusive but I did find it interesting that the room with female friendly conditions only produced 2 of 3 females, where the male friendly conditions room produced 3 of 3 females...go figure

Some may say my experiment was tainted from the start as I used the infamous seed gender chart to select the opposite gender for each room, but most consider that chart as total BS, thus did it really stack the odds.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
That is taken from another breeders post from HIS web site.....I did not print that as being any more then a partial belief, derived from over 40 years of growing.......

Personally. I believe in the ability of temp levels affecting the outcome of male to female ratio's in popping and raising seedlings.

Hot wise, The best I ever did was 16 of 20 female to male in. When doing it again with cooler popping and seedling temps (plants aged to be out of solo cups or the first real transplant).....I only got 11 of 20 female to male. Same straight run seeds. From the same parent plant.....Exodus Cheese - real from cut strain.

I have never attempted to get results from other plants. There is nothing else I grow that I care one way or another what sex the plant is.....
Click to expand...
Ill agree that my observations have led me to the same conclusion. I have never had 50/50 out of regs. 70/30 or better for me. Part of it may be there are less males needed in nature and part of it I read about environment a long time ago.

Along with the temps you mention all blue light can help with more females.

I am still batting 100% female from fem seeds and 1 hermie but that was my fault.





For those wondering, the seeds that dr who is talking about here were from The Vault seed bank and mephisto genetics.

The vault is legit in my book and mephisto is one of the best fem auto breeders around.


The only concern @Dr. Who is if that male grows female flowers at some point. Will you be able to finish flowering the plant to the end to see? It might be a good idea before using the pollen.
 
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