My little watering & anchoring invention...

Flowki said:
I mean that the depth of the dish would be hard to get right. If it's too deep then you would have to sacrifice soil to get it down in their. If it's too high instead, then you'd possibly lose height on the plant due to needing to transplant it higher up to keep the lower branching/leaves clear thus needing it to be smaller top end if going for a certain size for space, hope you follow. If you are then forced into using too shallow a dish you may have to refill each individual dish 3 to 4 times to get in the volume, so a big problem if you have many pots.
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Gotcha, yeah the priority has been to ensure volume is not an issue. It would indeed suck to have to refill it a few times. It's currently under 2.5" high yet holds nearly 3/4 gallon of water. If a 1G version was created it would be only 1.5" or so high yet still capable of holding more water than a 1G plant could take at a single watering so I'm hoping height as it relates to volume and plant sizing won't be an issue.

Flowki said:
You will only be dealing with 2' to 4' max tubing that is only fixed to the soil with some form of peg, easily removed. You mix up neut in a separate big container and that should all be clean with no bits to create any clogging at all. Once mixed you can fill a transport bucket and then with that fill up the gravity container. As you can dictate the size of the gravity container and flow of the liquid due to tube size you will only have to fill it up one single time to feed 4 plants. That is unless your plants are in huge pots so you'd need to do 2 transport pots due to carry weight.

Under the bucket/stool you can place a catch bucket if you are paranoid about leaks so if one does occur (almost certainly at that single connection point) it will drip into the catch bucket.
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Is this what you do?
 
slow_grow said:
Gotcha, yeah the priority has been to ensure volume is not an issue. It would indeed suck to have to refill it a few times. It's currently under 2.5" high yet holds nearly 3/4 gallon of water. If a 1G version was created it would be only 1.5" or so high yet still capable of holding more water than a 1G plant could take at a single watering so I'm hoping height as it relates to volume and plant sizing won't be an issue.
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Ahh that's good to hear then, hope it does not sound like I wanted the idea to fail or something.

slow_grow said:
Is this what you do?
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It is at-least 5 times easier and faster than traditional irrigation while at the same time waters the soil slow enough to send you insane if done manually. I'm not insane ^^.
 
slow_grow said:
I'll start by just saying I have nearly zero patience when it comes to watering. In other areas I seem to have far more. For instance I could manicure for hours but for some reason I just hate sitting there watering things slowly to ensure good and even saturation. Water too fast and I'd get tons of runoff and no real sense of how much the medium could hold until after the fact which could potentially be too late. Water too slow and it becomes more of a chore.

So I decided to set out and design a drain container that closely mimics the distribution of water in nature that would also serve as a training platform for LST, mainlining or any technique where multiple, easily accessible anchor points could be had. In rocking my own mainline for this grow I found tomato cages to be somewhat awkward and too limiting. I was about to start clipping anchor points to the edges of my pots when it dawned on me to simply combine the two problems into the watering solution I was already mulling over.

Here is how I'm currently watering to ensure a good soak without requiring the plant to suck what it needs from the bottom run-off drain pan. Basically a bunch of smaller containers with holes punched in the bottom of them. This works very well however it's cumbersome and hideous.

View attachment 3854082

Here is the current iteration of the drain container's design:

View attachment 3854083

I'm still testing the drainage pattern which is why you don't see any drain holes in the model. The smaller holes on the outer lip serve as training anchor points. One need only tie a knot or form a ball in their training wire and run it up from under a hole to the plant, nice and clean. The large anchor points are for staking the container down. The idea is this would remain fixed in the pot the entire grow once the plant's lowest node was taller than 2". This initial size would accommodate both 3G and 5G pots from a diameter standpoint and hold just over 90 ounces of water.

Current flow testing shows that 80 .4mm holes in a concentric pattern focusing primarily on the outer perimeter will yield a drain time of 20 minutes. The idea being to simply fill it up and walk away. Measurement hash marks will be added in increments of 10 (oz) so I know exactly how much water is going in.

The container would be white to reflect light and since it would remain in place the entire grow it would also be a great way to keep tabs on any bugs since they'd pop against the white fairly well. It would also serve as a means to keep the upper portions of the soil from totally drying out. The container has stubby little legs to ensure that drainage hole contact with the soil is avoided. They are stackable for easy storage and each stake point is reinforced with ribs.

There are few more tweaks that need to be made before I have a 3D printed prototype generated to test with.

What do you guys think? Any suggestions?
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IMO: I'd like it in pale yellow to attract bugs, so I can paint some veg oil on it to kill them!

you could take this idea to a garden product maker and sell the idea to him,

maybe sell his product inside yours ..?

you gotta haggle the deal ...lol

good luck
 
Hopefully a little help from what I found out. If the holes combined are more than 10mm you will likely flood the pot. It's not really avoidable with only using holes no matter how many small ones as the water from it's own constant weight will dictate the flow pressure/volume yada yada and it will mostly exceed to top soils soaking ability past 10mm. Maybe 4x 2mm holes toward each ''corner'' of the dish will allow enough surface soil area per hole to soak up before it all try's to run off down the sides or too the center. If the holes are too close to the outer edges the water may sink a few inches but still lead itself toward the side of the pot and then just drop and flood the catch tray. If all too close to the middle then the center core of soil will get flooded fast and act like a straw funneling water from top straight down to tray.

Small holes would also easily get blocked by falling dead leaf matter or w/e small bits may find it's way into the dish, that would require constant checks/cleaning.


Perhaps some things that could help

Instead of just holes you could have 4 cone shaped spikes that go from the tray down and pierce into the soil. The spike end in the soil would ofc have a hole in it a few mm wide. As it's pierced into the soil it now has some resistance to stem the water pressure and slow the flow down to the soils sponge rate (or so). So long as the straw spikes are not too close to edge/center it could work. Blockage may be more of an issue though, maybe less depending on the size of the bit.

In either case, a lid for the dish with a closable access hole to fill the dish up would basically ensure no crap gets in to create blocks.

I don't see much other way around these issues with ought making it mechanical.
 
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A fine screen mesh over the top would help with debris to a point and yup it may need to be rinsed out every now and then. Great ideal though and you best get that puppy a patent before you lose it wink wink lol. Might I suggest "Dragons Den".
 
I like the concept , If it was me personally I'd do it as 2 seperate semi circles just for ease of application . But still something I'd consider using :)
 
Flowki said:
Hopefully a little help from what I found out. If the holes combined are more than 10mm you will likely flood the pot. It's not really avoidable with only using holes no matter how many small ones as the water from it's own constant weight will dictate the flow pressure/volume yada yada and it will mostly exceed to top soils soaking ability past 10mm. Maybe 4x 2mm holes toward each ''corner'' of the dish will allow enough surface soil area per hole to soak up before it all try's to run off down the sides or too the center. If the holes are too close to the outer edges the water may sink a few inches but still lead itself toward the side of the pot and then just drop and flood the catch tray. If all too close to the middle then the center core of soil will get flooded fast and act like a straw funneling water from top straight down to tray.

Small holes would also easily get blocked by falling dead leaf matter or w/e small bits may find it's way into the dish, that would require constant checks/cleaning.


Perhaps some things that could help

Instead of just holes you could have 4 cone shaped spikes that go from the tray down and pierce into the soil. The spike end in the soil would ofc have a hole in it a few mm wide. As it's pierced into the soil it now has some resistance to stem the water pressure and slow the flow down to the soils sponge rate (or so). So long as the straw spikes are not too close to edge/center it could work. Blockage may be more of an issue though, maybe less depending on the size of the bit.

In either case, a lid for the dish with a closable access hole to fill the dish up would basically ensure no crap gets in to create blocks.

I don't see much other way around these issues with ought making it mechanical.
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I like the idea of spikes although can you tell me what equation you're using to measure flow? The current iteration has 80 .4mm holes. Initially I had planned on 300 .5mm holes but that wasn't slow enough but even so, it still took 3 minutes to drain 1G of water (this was back before the overall height was reduced). This formula closely matches what I'm seeing with my drilled buckets where basically I'm just drilling holes in a bucket and timing how long it drains into the bucket below it. With only 80 .4mm holes it takes right around 20 minutes.



flow_calc.jpg
 
Budley Doright said:
A fine screen mesh over the top would help with debris to a point and yup it may need to be rinsed out every now and then. Great ideal though and you best get that puppy a patent before you lose it wink wink lol. Might I suggest "Dragons Den".
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Hah, we'll see man. I'm not looking to get into the business of making this thing, I just want a solution.
idfuckmyplants said:
I like the concept , If it was me personally I'd do it as 2 seperate semi circles just for ease of application . But still something I'd consider using :)
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It is currently an array of 2 semi circles actually. The outer circle has 3 bands, the inner circle has just 1 but I've got a slight concentration towards the stem channel (what I've been calling the gap that you slide the stem through when placing it),
 
vostok said:
IMO: I'd like it in pale yellow to attract bugs, so I can paint some veg oil on it to kill them!

you could take this idea to a garden product maker and sell the idea to him,

maybe sell his product inside yours ..?

you gotta haggle the deal ...lol

good luck
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Dude, yellow is where it's at, thanks man. I was thinking white to reflect light and never thought twice about it but you're right man, I bet fungus gnats and such would simply drown themselves when rustled during each watering and yeah if you also sprayed it down it bet it would be very effective. I'm going to see if the printer has already started the run, if not I'll have him swap out to yellow filament. I know as of Friday he was prepping the model.
 
Budley Doright said:
A fine screen mesh over the top would help with debris to a point and yup it may need to be rinsed out every now and then. Great ideal though and you best get that puppy a patent before you lose it wink wink lol. Might I suggest "Dragons Den".
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I was thinking about going down the whole "take it serious" route but honestly the value for me is solving the original problem, I just want a solution. If the prototype works well maybe we'll kickstart it or something to cover the cost of the initial run. I plan on getting a quote for injection moulding, if it's only a few grand I could see a crowdfunding campaign working. Something like contribute $3 and get 1 or $10 and get 4 or $25 and get 10. Something like that. I mean, they are just plastic dishes with holes in them basically so I can't imagine them being expensive to make AFTER the initial mold is made. If that is successful the same could be done for 1G pot sizes.
 
slow_grow said:
I like the idea of spikes although can you tell me what equation you're using to measure flow? The current iteration has 80 .4mm holes. Initially I had planned on 300 .5mm holes but that wasn't slow enough but even so, it still took 3 minutes to drain 1G of water (this was back before the overall height was reduced). This formula closely matches what I'm seeing with my drilled buckets where basically I'm just drilling holes in a bucket and timing how long it drains into the bucket below it. With only 80 .4mm holes it takes right around 20 minutes.



View attachment 3856966
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Ahh right I didn't realize you were going with a full sieve type layout professionally produced ;p. Yeah with such a fine spread across the top soil I don't see why it would not soak up evenly if going that slow. The only thing I'd be concerned about with such small holes is any dry residue build up blocking them between feeds. That ''should'' dissolve once wet on next feed and fall through hopefully. Is it very slightly concave so that no water can sit on edges of dish or do the corner curves also have holes?. Lids to stop you having to clean out dead leaves all the time still sounds like a convenient idea. I Don't see what else could go wrong unless the math lets you down.
 
Flowki said:
Ahh right I didn't realize you were going with a full sieve type layout professionally produced ;p. Yeah with such a fine spread across the top soil I don't see why it would not soak up evenly if going that slow. The only thing I'd be concerned about with such small holes is any dry residue build up blocking them between feeds. That ''should'' dissolve once wet on next feed and fall through hopefully. Is it very slightly concave so that no water can sit on edges of dish or do the corner curves also have holes?. Lids to stop you having to clean out dead leaves all the time still sounds like a convenient idea. I Don't see what else could go wrong unless the math lets you down.
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Yeah man the buildup is a concern but I've been testing with excess amounts of jack's in my test buckets and can't detect any buildup yet. The inner edges are rounded but without some type of dip there will be some very slight pooling. I think if it goes to production I'll incorporate some ever so slight dips toward the drain channels so not a drop sits around.
 
slow_grow said:
Yeah man the buildup is a concern but I've been testing with excess amounts of jack's in my test buckets and can't detect any buildup yet. The inner edges are rounded but without some type of dip there will be some very slight pooling. I think if it goes to production I'll incorporate some ever so slight dips toward the drain channels so not a drop sits around.
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Well, sounds like you got it all figured out so good luck and send an update yeah?.

Ok maybe one more thing ;p, I take it theirs room for various types of plant support, bamboo etc etc?.
 
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Flowki said:
Well, sounds like you got it all figured out so good luck and send an update yeah?.

Ok maybe one more thing ;p, I take it theirs room for various types of plant support, bamboo etc etc?.
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Hmmm didn't think about factoring in supports, are you saying for the main stalk?
 
slow_grow said:
Hmmm didn't think about factoring in supports, are you saying for the main stalk?
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I suppose some people do that or have one/a few around the outer edge for later main branch supports. Maybe your peg holes could double up as optional bamboo holes?.

There are better alternatives to bamboo and the likes but a lot of people no doubt still use them due to inexpense and ease of storage etc.
 
Holy shit injection molding is expensive. I figured it would be 3 or 4k for the mold and then a high per unit price until legit quantities were needed but we're talking 12k just to get into the game and that was the absolute lowest quote, the highest is well over 20k. Well, if anyone is interested in partnering up on this I'd be game. I'm a software architect so I could handle the site creation, social media promotion, full soup-to-nuts direct e-commerce implementation (not an off the shelf scenario where we're being bent over on CC processing fees), search engine optimization, etc. and of course any design iterations that need to happen to the actual product.

If nobody is interested I might throw it on kickstarter. I'll certainly be printing up more for my own use, I just watered today and can't f'n wait for the first one to get here.
 
The bummer part is really how much they look like they should cost, which isn't much :( They're a somewhat complicated item to make I'm sure. How much does it cost you to print one?
 
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