United States of Corporate America

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
If a tree falls in the woods and you're not there to hear it, does it still make a sound?

Yes it does: FACT

But you didn't see it fall, you didn't hear the crash..how do you know?
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Wow. You are equating the extrapolation of a few operatives in the DNC talking with a few people in the media invalidating the 2016 election with a tree falling in the woods. First off , let's talk about facts and deductive reasoning. When a tree falls in the wood, the top of the tree will be found on the ground or leaning on other trees and nearby would be the stump with matching broken wood. So, one can know that a tree fell and knowing how large it is it would be completely reasonable to conclude it made a sound.

Regarding the DNC and media communications. There were emails and communications between the two that decisively prove this happened. Not prove entire DNC did this. Not prove Clinton did this. The e-mails just prove that there were communications and discussions between a few people on how to favor Clinton. Where we part ways is the affect they had on the electorate.

Have you read those e-mails? I have and they were banal. They were clearly interoffice musings by incompetent hacks. A few stupid heads talking to each other? This happens every day. It's unethical and should be a firing offense but throw an entire election by talking?

Do you know anybody who changed their vote because of the DNC-media communications? I voted for Bernie. You would have if you had changed your registration in time. Everybody arguing with me and claiming that the election was "rigged" weren't affected -- they didn't change their votes. So, who did?. You and a host of others claim that 4 million votes were stolen from Bernie and delivered to Clinton. I'm willing to go with the idea that a few hundred thousand voters were affected but not 4 million people. I think we have discussed this point to where we agree that nobody can say for sure how many votes were flipped. For myself, I can't identify a single vote that was flipped. Does anybody who claims "rigged" know a person who changed their vote because "media collusion"? So, no -- it is not reasonable to conclude through deductive logic that Clinton stole or "rigged" the election by 4M votes due to this idiotic act.

I'm in agreement with you and others that the DNC office acted unethically. I voted for Bernie, so of course I'm disappointed that the DNC worked against his interests. I'm willing to bet that most who supported Clinton from the beginning would say the same. The office of the DNC is supposed to impartially support all valid candidates. I would like to see changes going forward that makes this kind of behavior unlikely or maybe impossible to make. How to do this without creating a big brother type of monitoring system is beyond me but I agree on the principle.

.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Do you think it's possible or even desirable to have the kind of system that monitors all people involved in the election process for ethics? I'm not asking about legal matters, just ethics.
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I don't know if that's feasible, or even possible. The DNC should figure something out though. This episode hurt Hillary more than it helped her by reinforcing Trumps "crooked Hillary" narrative. The dems would be well served to make the next election as transparent as possible.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
tangerinegreen555 said:
How would he get any more done than Obama in polarized Washington?
Click to expand...
Then maybe we should just all kill ourselves now, if we think this way.

He's one of the few scandal free non-millionaires who owed no one, doer of 40 Washington years..I'm sure he would have found a way.

Obama was brand new.

Now we'll never know..or will we?:wink:
 
tangerinegreen555

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
Then maybe we should just all kill ourselves now, if we think this way.

He's one of the few scandal free non-millionaires who owed no one, doer of 40 Washington years..I'm sure he would have found a way.

Obama was brand new.

Now we'll never know..or will we?:wink:
Click to expand...
'Found a way'?

Yeah there's a way. Have about 53 senators and 225 congressmen on your side pushing some things through.

THAT'S the proven way, historically.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Wow. You are equating the extrapolation of a few operatives in the DNC talking with a few people in the media invalidating the 2016 election with a tree falling in the woods. First off , let's talk about facts and deductive reasoning. When a tree falls in the wood, the top of the tree will be found on the ground or leaning on other trees and nearby would be the stump with matching broken wood. So, one can know that a tree fell and knowing how large it is it would be completely reasonable to conclude it made a sound.

Regarding the DNC and media communications. There were emails and communications between the two that decisively prove this happened. Not prove entire DNC did this. Not prove Clinton did this. The e-mails just prove that there were communications and discussions between a few people on how to favor Clinton. Where we part ways is the affect they had on the electorate.

Have you read those e-mails? I have and they were banal. They were clearly interoffice musings by incompetent hacks. A few stupid heads talking to each other? This happens every day. It's unethical and should be a firing offense but throw an entire election by talking?

Do you know anybody who changed their vote because of the DNC-media communications? I voted for Bernie. You would have if you had changed your registration in time. Everybody arguing with me and claiming that the election was "rigged" weren't affected -- they didn't change their votes. So, who did?. You and a host of others claim that 4 million votes were stolen from Bernie and delivered to Clinton. I'm willing to go with the idea that a few hundred thousand voters were affected but not 4 million people. I think we have discussed this point to where we agree that nobody can say for sure how many votes were flipped. For myself, I can't identify a single vote that was flipped. Does anybody who claims "rigged" know a person who changed their vote because "media collusion"? So, no -- it is not reasonable to conclude through deductive logic that Clinton stole or "rigged" the election by 4M votes due to this idiotic act.

I'm in agreement with you and others that the DNC office acted unethically. I voted for Bernie, so of course I'm disappointed that the DNC worked against his interests. I'm willing to bet that most who supported Clinton from the beginning would say the same. The office of the DNC is supposed to impartially support all valid candidates. I would like to see changes going forward that makes this kind of behavior unlikely or maybe impossible to make. How to do this without creating a big brother type of monitoring system is beyond me but I agree on the principle.

.
Click to expand...
The media changed the narrative by manipulation and stifle of Sanders..many voters had never even heard of him and thought there was only one person running on the democratic side until they went to vote..
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
I don't know if that's feasible, or even possible. The DNC should figure something out though. This episode hurt Hillary more than it helped her by reinforcing Trumps "crooked Hillary" narrative. The dems would be well served to make the next election as transparent as possible.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind Donna Brasile gave debate questions in advance to Hillary AFTER Debbie W-S resigned..

I don't know about you, but that takes some balls..

Transparency? I wouldn't count on it.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Rrog said:
Are there people still thinking the Russians we're not fucking with us? Obama used the famous Red Phone to call Putin for shitsakes over this
Click to expand...
That's interesting you should mention the red phone.

MSNBC reported just today that there is none and never has been.

Just a factoid.
 
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