"Be realistic. Demand the impossible." -James Baldwin

[MisterBouncyBounce]

The idea is, don't settle for the framework that's been given to you. Break out of that framework and demand something more and release your imagination........Universal free health care is possible. [The U.S.] becoming a nation among nations instead of an uber-Spartan warrior nation is possible. Ending mass incarceration is possible. But they are only possible if we allow ourselves to imagine them and then mobilize ourselves to win.

we have a responsibility to open our eyes to the world as it really is. We have a responsibility to note that the word racism in our public discourse has two distinct meanings. The reason that distinction is important and the reason we should raise this into the public dialogue is because it's easy for people to escape responsibility by saying "I'm not racist," meaning [they're not] bigoted and backward and ignorant, but they still support a system that is bigoted and backward.....That's what it means to oppose racism. It doesn't mean to call out Cliven Bundy, the idiot cattle rancher. It doesn't mean to call out Donald Sterling, the lunatic owner of a basketball franchise. It means to call out somebody when they close 52 schools in black and brown neighborhoods. It means to call out somebody when they put another plank in the platform of mass incarceration. Those are structures of racism. Those are structures of privilege and oppression based on race and on the history of race. These things are hugely important. -Bill Ayers

 

[ttystikk]

This is why Mrs Clinton lost. She lacked imagination.

 

[MisterBouncyBounce]

This is why Mrs Clinton lost. She lacked imagination.

You know I saw her winning, I really wanted Bernie but it was obvious the deck was stacked against him and I thought that with Trump getting the nomination it is was lock she would win. NEVER could Imagine he would win untll that morning when it hit me that he's really hung in, that the polls shouldn't be as tight as they were. she had the edge, but she should have had much wider margin considering a conniving, thieving bobble head was her opponent. I did start to worry but still I was confident she'd win.

And so I was hoping by some miracle when she got in office she would sell out all her big donars, wall st, pharma ect. Because there was nothing they could do to her, she would be on top and these are the last battles she'll fighting before she retires, so her opponents couldn't do much to her since it was her swan song.

Then run a populist administration that gave the people all the victories they wanted. Calling in favors, ramming things through, beating them at their own game because she knows it so well. Appointing far left Judges.....basically turning the system upside down in favor of the people, and in that way create a huge and indelible imprint on history. Corporate America would have hated her but the people would have loved her.

But I know she would never have done that, because, you're right, she lacked imagination.
she could have been Darth Vader but she was more like Palpatine.

 

[NLXSK1]

The idea is, don't settle for the framework that's been given to you. Break out of that framework and demand something more and release your imagination........Universal free health care is possible. [The U.S.] becoming a nation among nations instead of an uber-Spartan warrior nation is possible. Ending mass incarceration is possible. But they are only possible if we allow ourselves to imagine them and then mobilize ourselves to win.

we have a responsibility to open our eyes to the world as it really is. We have a responsibility to note that the word racism in our public discourse has two distinct meanings. The reason that distinction is important and the reason we should raise this into the public dialogue is because it's easy for people to escape responsibility by saying "I'm not racist," meaning [they're not] bigoted and backward and ignorant, but they still support a system that is bigoted and backward.....That's what it means to oppose racism. It doesn't mean to call out Cliven Bundy, the idiot cattle rancher. It doesn't mean to call out Donald Sterling, the lunatic owner of a basketball franchise. It means to call out somebody when they close 52 schools in black and brown neighborhoods. It means to call out somebody when they put another plank in the platform of mass incarceration. Those are structures of racism. Those are structures of privilege and oppression based on race and on the history of race. These things are hugely important. -Bill Ayers

You mean like the people here who try to have a dialogue and get shouted down as racists? That kind of advancement of the discussion?

 

[MisterBouncyBounce]

You mean like the people here who try to have a dialogue and get shouted down as racists? That kind of advancement of the discussion?

no not that kind. why do you ask?
I know I've never shouted you down as a racist or anything else.

if you mean that goes on here a lot, yeah well, all I can say is don't feed into it.

 

[NLXSK1]

no not that kind. why do you ask?
I know I've never shouted you down as a racist or anything else.

if you mean that goes on here a lot, yeah well, all I can say is don't feed into it.

In your description you define people as bigoted and backwards. You insult the very people you suggest establishing a dialogue with.

If you do not understand that their opinions have as much value as your opinions then you are never going to get anywhere.

Until you step down off the soap box and really prepare to have an honest dialogue then you get what you get here. Insults do not advance the discussion.

 

[MisterBouncyBounce]

In your description you define people as bigoted and backwards. You insult the very people you suggest establishing a dialogue with.

If you do not understand that their opinions have as much value as your opinions then you are never going to get anywhere.

Until you step down off the soap box and really prepare to have an honest dialogue then you get what you get here. Insults do not advance the discussion.

maybe you read some other thread and posted here.

you have mis-read the post, please re-read it.

 

[NLXSK1]

maybe you read some other thread and posted here.

you have mis-read the post, please re-read it.

Sorry, you were quoting Bill Ayers who called people backwards.

My argument stands with him in your place. Insulting people will never get you any successful dialogue.

 

[MisterBouncyBounce]

Sorry, you were quoting Bill Ayers who called people backwards.

My argument stands with him in your place. Insulting people will never get you any successful dialogue.

no my friend, he was not. where do you get that from?

 

[NLXSK1]

no my friend, he was not. where do you get that from?

Your OP

' but they still support a system that is bigoted and backward.....'

 

[MisterBouncyBounce]

Your OP

' but they still support a system that is bigoted and backward.....'

yes he says that, but that isn't saying those people are bigoted and backward because they support the system.

He is saying that they even though they are NOT bigoted and backward (as stated in the previous line) they still have a responsibility because the system they support is bigoted and backward.

In other words, just because you're not a racist that doesn't give you an out, you still have to work for change otherwise you are supporting a racist system.

 

[NLXSK1]

yes he says that, but that isn't saying those people are bigoted and backward because they support the system.

He is saying that they even though they are NOT bigoted and backward (as stated in the previous line) they still have a responsibility because the system they support is bigoted and backward.

In other words, just because you're not a racist that doesn't give you an out, you still have to work for change otherwise you are supporting a racist system.

The problem is that programs like Affirmative action only perpetuate racism, they do not eliminate it. The government promotes racism by giving special benefits and access to programs to people based on their race.

I am willing to bet Bill Ayers supports Affirmative Action.

So, while it is stated that the system that the right supposedly supports is 'bigoted and backwards' the very programs they advocate are equally 'bigoted and backwards'

 

[MisterBouncyBounce]

The problem is that programs like Affirmative action only perpetuate racism, they do not eliminate it. The government promotes racism by giving special benefits and access to programs to people based on their race.

I am willing to bet Bill Ayers supports Affirmative Action.

So, while it is stated that the system that the right supposedly supports is 'bigoted and backwards' the very programs they advocate are equally 'bigoted and backwards'

You sound like you don't like the system much. It is the system that has given us Affirmative Action.

Do you really think if there were no black people things would be different? it'd just be some other group in their place. And there would be Affirmative Action just the same.

We have to rise above all that. the answers to what you speak don't lie in debating tit for tat this for that. They lie in stepping back and viewing the system as a whole and seeing it for what it really is.

 

[Justin-case]

The problem is that programs like Affirmative action only perpetuate racism, they do not eliminate it. The government promotes racism by giving special benefits and access to programs to people based on their race.

I am willing to bet Bill Ayers supports Affirmative Action.

So, while it is stated that the system that the right supposedly supports is 'bigoted and backwards' the very programs they advocate are equally 'bigoted and backwards'

So, it's the government's fault you're a stupid racist, got it.

 

[NLXSK1]

You sound like you don't like the system much. It is the system that has given us Affirmative Action.

Do you really think if there were no black people things would be different? it'd just be some other group in their place. And there would be Affirmative Action just the same.

We have to rise above all that. the answers to what you speak don't lie in debating tit for tat this for that. They lie in stepping back and viewing the system as a whole and seeing it for what it really is.

If you want equal opportunity why dont you advocate for it. Eliminate Affirmative action and all other race based quota systems and reward people based on acheivement rather than skin color.

I am not saying we should get rid of black people I am saying that discriminating against white people in the name of 'Fairness' is racist just as it is the other way.

You claim racism yet advocate racist policies. You are one of the people Bill Ayers seems to be advocating against. Maybe you are not in the group you think you are.

 

[MisterBouncyBounce]

If you want equal opportunity why dont you advocate for it. Eliminate Affirmative action and all other race based quota systems and reward people based on acheivement rather than skin color.

I am not saying we should get rid of black people I am saying that discriminating against white people in the name of 'Fairness' is racist just as it is the other way.

You claim racism yet advocate racist policies. You are one of the people Bill Ayers seems to be advocating against. Maybe you are not in the group you think you are.

shrugs.....If you say so.

 

[UncleBuck]

You mean like the people here who try to have a dialogue and get shouted down as racists?

you mean, like, after you call the president a "halfrican"?

 

[UncleBuck]

Insulting people will never get you any successful dialogue.

so maybe stop calling the president a "halfrican" then.

 

[UncleBuck]

programs like Affirmative action only perpetuate racism

the biggest benefactors of affirmative action are white women.

 

[UncleBuck]

Eliminate Affirmative action and all other race based quota systems

quotas are illegal, moron.