LEC - Light-Emitting Ceramic

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

I will check out your sig info when I have some time and I will recheck where I learned what I wrote. This is very interesting. As the Universities are still showing basically (and I realize this terminology is actually incorrect but explains the point) lumens beat spectrum as the plant transfers photosynthesis to the strongest wavelength regardless.

Then my 70 CRI 4000K Cobs will be awesome as I expect they will be, I would love to see a source to back it up as well. Perhaps next time Ill get the 5000K cobs, but we will see how it does in practice watching Rahz CRI side by side and taking notes.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Exactly total power trumps spectrium but for best results have both

Yup. I added a 315 LEC to expand my rooms spectrum. The University of Utah had done testing on spectrum and they are the ones who proved quality and growth max at at about 50/50 red to blue light.

My Hortilux 600's only have about 25% on their own. Great results but the LEC has added potency and flavor. We noticed on the first plants. And I am a skeptic. In case it wasn't obvious

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Then my 70 CRI 4000K Cobs will be awesome as I expect they will be, I would love to see a source to back it up as well. Perhaps next time Ill get the 5000K cobs, but we will see how it does in practice watching Rahz CRI side by side and taking notes.

I see what you were getting at about penetration. Although the waves of light that pass through leaves and the ones absorbed are still being discovered I don't know if the leaf filtered light reacts on a meter. Aren't certain waves basically eaten by the plant?

And I did say lumens not watts. Those 600's put out more usable light than most lights at about 16". But I never said or even actually know if cobs can put down more. I assume they can with enough of them and the spread would be much more even.

Question.

Regardless of meter testing why as soon as I put my fully leaf covered plant back under the 600hps from the 315 LEC the low parts of the plant perk right up and I can see low bud growth has increased and density as well within a day.

When I put it back it seemed to have a higher up the plant "limit" like my plants are just too thick for the 315 watt bulb.

More ambient light available? Or we can't detect the leaf penetration without more sensitive equipment.

I do have clones running now for more accurate observation but the seeds I use I know most phenos from perpetually planting them one after another for the last 2.5 years.

Just to say I know these plants. I am not seeing the results of something else most likely.

 

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

I see what you were getting at about penetration. Although the waves of light that pass through leaves and the ones absorbed are still being discovered I don't know if the leaf filtered light reacts on a meter. Aren't certain waves basically eaten by the plant?

And I did say lumens not watts. Those 600's put out more usable light than most lights at about 16". But I never said or even actually know if cobs can put down more. I assume they can with enough of them and the spread would be much more even.

Question.

Regardless of meter testing why as soon as I put my fully leaf covered plant back under the 600hps from the 315 LEC the low parts of the plant perk right up and I can see low bud growth has increased and density as well within a day.

When I put it back it seemed to have a higher up the plant "limit" like my plants are just too thick for the 315 watt bulb.

More ambient light available? Or we can't detect the leaf penetration without more sensitive equipment.

I do have clones running now for more accurate observation but the seeds I use I know most phenos from perpetually planting them one after another for the last 2.5 years.

Just to say I know these plants. I am not seeing the results of something else most likely.

My guess is that the plant will act as a unit, it it is getting a really hot spot like HPS provides I would guess that the plant is getting enough light to keep the other branches going. Why else would they do this? Thats all I got on that. Different light give plants different attributes, more red (hps) more stretch, more blue, closer inter node stracking.

 

[verticalgrow]

Then my 70 CRI 4000K Cobs .

How soft are u running them & wats the efficiency?
Thx
VG

 

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

How soft are u running them & wats the efficiency?
Thx
VG

61.5% Efficient and 850W in a 4x4

 

[TheChemist77]

if penetration is the problem,, why not just keep shorter plants,, increased efficiency with lec light,more yield per watt used, simple...i understand nobody likes the lower popcorn buds,, and trimming them sucks as well. so either cut the lower stuff off or switch to sea of green as i think efficiency plays a big part in todays grow room. add lower lighting, another idea but more watts being used,,
i grew under 600's for a long time and can see they work, but even under the 600's i never had plants taller than 4ft and if i did lower buds wer crap so id cut lower branches off..i dont like cutting branches, i dont like defoiliating my plants either, so i veg no longer than 2-3 weeks depending on strain, so the plants top off at 3ft, and at 3ft the 315's seem to penetrate just as well as the 600's did..i cant sway much on the led as i havnt had them long, and they are only 100 watt cobs.. but going from 2 600's or 1200 watts to 2 315's 630 watts over the same area, has saved alot on electric and yes i cant get 1200 grams with 2 315's, closer to 850 grams but gram per watt is much better with ceramics, i never did much better than 1.2 gpw with hps..

deep penetration, thats what she said!!!

 

[verticalgrow]

61.5% Efficient and 850W in a 4x4

how many COBs are u running to get 850w?
Are u running the driver @ 500ma?
thx, VG

 

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

how many COBs are u running to get 850w?
Are u running the driver @ 500ma?
thx, VG

Nope 1400mA and 16 Cobs

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

My guess is that the plant will act as a unit, it it is getting a really hot spot like HPS provides I would guess that the plant is getting enough light to keep the other branches going. Why else would they do this? Thats all I got on that. Different light give plants different attributes, more red (hps) more stretch, more blue, closer inter node stracking.

It's way deeper than that. Those things like red equals stretch are not really correct. Plants use all different wavelengths when available for all different processes.

To control height of plants many horticultural businesses use negative temp differential. That makes the most difference from my research.

In fact in addition to temperature I feel nutrients and minor deficiencies cause more of those things you wrote. And genetics of course mostly.

Even a slight potassium deficiency going in to stretch will cause excess elongation. This kind of effect is why I like quality amended potting soil rooted in for at least a week with plenty of root space and nutrients left going in to flower. Even more elements available when the plant needs them.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Nope 1400mA and 16 Cobs

I guess more points of light and less power to them individually increases overall performance?

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

I guess more points of light and less power to them individually increases overall performance?

Increased spread.

 

[hillbill]

What is penetration? Please define. Thank you.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

@hillbill
Well without taking the "that's what she said" bait really it is being used in place of intensity. How well does the usable light get down through the canopy.

T-5 flourescents do well but at about 6-8". And they will only really light up a foot or so well below that.

HPS can "penetrate" up to 3" or more with 1000w

For example.

 

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

I guess more points of light and less power to them individually increases overall performance?

that and each COB is around 1300PPF so spread that out around and it averages out quite well, I also dont use reflectors.

What is penetration? Please define. Thank you.

Its light going through stretchy plants to other leaves past the initial ones. But its almost always confused with light passing through leaves. The issue with HPS is it causes stretch which means that it has to make up for that with "penetration"

 

[ttystikk]

Nope 1400mA and 16 Cobs

Are these CXB3590? What bin? My CD bin chips return 56% efficiency when run at 50W.

 

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

Are these CXB3590? What bin? My CD bin chips return 56% efficiency when run at 50W.

3590 DB


CXB3590DB36V4000K 16 COBS @1.4A ON 1.813 PROFILE HEATSINK
16 SQ.FT. CANOPY 94% EFFICIENT DRIVER @15 CENTS PER KWH
Total power watts at the wall: 831.91
Cobs power watts: 782
Total voltage forward: 558
Total lumens: 154163
Total PAR watts assuming 10% loss: 430
Total PPF: 1947.9
PPFD based on canopy area: 1310.44
PAR watts per sq.ft.: 26.88
Cob efficiency: 61.03%
Power watts per sq.ft.: 48.88
Voltage forward per cob: 34.89
Lumens per watt: 197.14
Heatsink riser thickness / number of fins / fin's length: 0.3in/6/0.95in
Heatsink area per inch: 100.94 cm^2
Total heat watts: 305
umol/s/W / CRI: 4.53 / 70CRI
Heatsink length passive cooling @120cm^2/heatwatt: 363 inches
Heatsink length active cooling @40cm^2/heatwatt: 121 inches
COB cost dollar per PAR watt: $1.87
Electric cost @12/12 in 30 days: $45.42
Electric cost @18/6 in 30 days: $67.88
Cost per cob: $50.17
Heatsink cost per inch cut: $0.66
Total cobs cost: $803
Total heatsink passive cooling cost: $240
Total heatsink active cooling cost: $79

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

that and each COB is around 1300PPF so spread that out around and it averages out quite well, I also dont use reflectors.




Its light going through stretchy plants to other leaves past the initial ones. But its almost always confused with light passing through leaves. The issue with HPS is it causes stretch which means that it has to make up for that with "penetration"

I have to say again. HPS does not cause stretch. If anything it causes faster growth than most sources. And bulbs like the Hortilux Super HPS have quite a bit of added blue spectrums.

The only thing I really noticed about growth when comparing a Hortilux Super HPS next to a Hortilux Daylight Blue was much faster growth with more leaves and nodes sooner under the HPS reflector.

And I use Blockbusters. Which have a very direct down pattern so there is very little crossover from the lights.

This observation supports the Lumens trump spectrum data.

I will ad for growth. Quality and potency is affected differently.

 

[ttystikk]

3590 DB


CXB3590DB36V4000K 16 COBS @1.4A ON 1.813 PROFILE HEATSINK
16 SQ.FT. CANOPY 94% EFFICIENT DRIVER @15 CENTS PER KWH
Total power watts at the wall: 831.91
Cobs power watts: 782
Total voltage forward: 558
Total lumens: 154163
Total PAR watts assuming 10% loss: 430
Total PPF: 1947.9
PPFD based on canopy area: 1310.44
PAR watts per sq.ft.: 26.88
Cob efficiency: 61.03%
Power watts per sq.ft.: 48.88
Voltage forward per cob: 34.89
Lumens per watt: 197.14
Heatsink riser thickness / number of fins / fin's length: 0.3in/6/0.95in
Heatsink area per inch: 100.94 cm^2
Total heat watts: 305
umol/s/W / CRI: 4.53 / 70CRI
Heatsink length passive cooling @120cm^2/heatwatt: 363 inches
Heatsink length active cooling @40cm^2/heatwatt: 121 inches
COB cost dollar per PAR watt: $1.87
Electric cost @12/12 in 30 days: $45.42
Electric cost @18/6 in 30 days: $67.88
Cost per cob: $50.17
Heatsink cost per inch cut: $0.66
Total cobs cost: $803
Total heatsink passive cooling cost: $240
Total heatsink active cooling cost: $79

You got DB bin chips, much more available at 4000K than at 3500K like mine.

 

[hillbill]

Seems that highly reflective wallls and multiple light sources really help "penetration" because of light coming through at different angles which permits less obstructed light to reach surfaces lower on the plant. Defused light from sky and earth rotation do this outdoors, I think. Inverse square is not relevant on the solar scale but becomes vital in our indoor little worlds.