"White working class voters are good people, they're not racist, not sexist" -Joe Biden

[Padawanbater2]

Seen my sig? The DNC has admitted their behavior was "inexcusable"

 

[ttystikk]

Seen my sig? The DNC has admitted their behavior was "inexcusable"

...but it worked. At least, until election night.

 

[Padawanbater2]

...but it worked. At least, until election night.

I doubt if Clinton won we'd be hearing anything about this, or Russia

 

[Fogdog]

If she didn't do anything wrong, why did she get fired from CNN?

If Debbie Wasserman Schultz didn't do anything wrong, why did she resign from the DNC?

If nobody did anything wrong, why does anyone care what was leaked?

Brazile was fired for unethical behavior.
Wasserman Schultz was in charge when DNC employees failed to follow the organizations own rules.
Wikileaks came from a Russian sponsored cyber attack.
Russia leaked information to help Trump win the election.

What is your point?

 

[Fogdog]

I doubt if Clinton won we'd be hearing anything about this, or Russia

You don't think that Russian interference wouldn't be an issue if Clinton had won?

Oh that's right, you are the guy with future vision and is certain that Bernie would have won if he hadn't been cheated of 2 million or so votes. I'd call your proclamations unjustified confidence or maybe revisionist history but that's just my opinion.

How is the job search going, anyway?

 

[Padawanbater2]

What is your point?

My point was that if you guys are going to continue to call foul (which I don't think is wrong), then you have to also admit the DNC did something wrong. Me, tty, schuy, and others have been saying this since the primary only to be condemned by those that are condemning the leaks now. This is not OK with me. Admit the DNC favored Clinton and worked toward a Clinton victory against Sanders and organized an unfair primary

You don't think that Russian interference wouldn't be an issue if Clinton had won?

No

Oh that's right, you are the guy with future vision and is certain that Bernie would have won if he hadn't been cheated of 2 million or so votes. I'd call your proclamations unjustified confidence or maybe revisionist history but that's just my opinion.

How is the job search going, anyway?

I've been gainfully employed since I was 15, I'm almost 30 now, brother, that's nearly half my life as a wage slave. And you're going to question that because you disagree with me about a couple politicians?..

This is the same sort of thing I've been criticizing Buck about recently. Years of experience apparently doesn't mean shit because I disagreed with electing someone I saw unfit to be president to the highest office in the land. That's really actually pretty sad.. That means the only thing, in your minds, that kept us allies in this fight was your belief in party loyalty. As soon as someone loyal to the party for years questioned it, that's it. If that's all it takes, that means I was never a true ally of yours to begin with. That means you never truly saw me as an equal or respected my opinions. You only supported me because I supported you.

That's not real friendship, that's not real at all

 

[Fogdog]

My point was that if you guys are going to continue to call foul (which I don't think is wrong), then you have to also admit the DNC did something wrong. Me, tty, schuy, and others have been saying this since the primary only to be condemned by those that are condemning the leaks now. This is not OK with me. Admit the DNC favored Clinton and worked toward a Clinton victory against Sanders and organized an unfair primary

No

I've been gainfully employed since I was 15, I'm almost 30 now, brother, that's nearly half my life as a wage slave. And you're going to question that because you disagree with me about a couple politicians?..

This is the same sort of thing I've been criticizing Buck about recently. Years of experience apparently doesn't mean shit because I disagreed with electing someone I saw unfit to be president to the highest office in the land. That's really actually pretty sad.. That means the only thing, in your minds, that kept us allies in this fight was your belief in party loyalty. As soon as someone loyal to the party for years questioned it, that's it. If that's all it takes, that means I was never a true ally of yours to begin with. That means you never truly saw me as an equal or respected my opinions. You only supported me because I supported you.

That's not real friendship, that's not real at all

I don't care about your and Buck's relationship. He has your number though.

It's the Bernie boiz who are calling foul and end real world history at the Democratic Convention. Nobody can say what "would have" happened if Sanders had run a better campaign but as we have discussed ad nauseum, what you believe is not based on facts. Clinton won by a margin of almost 4 million votes. That's the fact that is real history. What would have happened if this or that occurred is irrelevant.

As far as Clinton's loss is concerned, you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who says the loss was due anything other than Clinton's missteps. You are the one who claims Clinton lost because "DNC scandal". Again that's your story and not based on facts. Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying its your story and nobody can say for sure. Bernie lost and supported Clinton during the general, that's what happened. Yet you come here and whine like a puppy about "unfair". Politics is not a game. People break rules all the time. If there aren't criminal charges, they will continue to do so.

And yet, I agree that the DNC corrupt acts that favored Clinton were unacceptable. It's my expectation that there are steps taken to prevent it going forward. Bernie is involved in these discussions, or at least he has been.

I'm aware you have a job and have read your narrative about being affected by the way the recovery went. My question about a job search was pointed to your complaints. If you aren't making enough, aren't you searching for better?

I come here for my own entertainment. I don't support you or anybody else. We agree on more than disagree. When we agree, I'll say so and be glad of your company. Yet, you seem to expect everybody to agree with you, even when your story is an extrapolation based upon some dicey scenarios. When I disagree, don't expect me to be kind about it.

 

[ttystikk]

I don't care about your and Buck's relationship. He has your number though.

It's the Bernie boiz who are calling foul and end real world history at the Democratic Convention. Nobody can say what "would have" happened if Sanders had run a better campaign but as we have discussed ad nauseum, what you believe is not based on facts. Clinton won by a margin of almost 4 million votes. That's the fact that is real history. What would have happened if this or that occurred is irrelevant.

As far as Clinton's loss is concerned, you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who says the loss was due anything other than Clinton's missteps. You are the one who claims Clinton lost because "DNC scandal". Again that's your story and not based on facts. Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying its your story and nobody can say for sure. Bernie lost and supported Clinton during the general, that's what happened. Yet you come here and whine like a puppy about "unfair". Politics is not a game. People break rules all the time. If there aren't criminal charges, they will continue to do so.

And yet, I agree that the DNC corrupt acts that favored Clinton were unacceptable. It's my expectation that there are steps taken to prevent it going forward. Bernie is involved in these discussions, or at least he has been.

I'm aware you have a job and have read your narrative about being affected by the way the recovery went. My question about a job search was pointed to your complaints. If you aren't making enough, why aren't you searching for better? At thirty, you are just hitting your stride, there is plenty of time to improve your situation. I think you are pretty smart and don't doubt you will.

I come here for my own entertainment. I don't support you or anybody else. We agree on more than disagree. When we agree, I'll say so and be glad of your company. Yet, you seem to expect everybody to agree with you, even when your story is an extrapolation based upon some dicey scenarios. When I disagree, don't expect me to be kind about it.

The DNC was not kind to Sanders and it- along with other so-called 'missteps'- cost them the election. I can't prove this, but it fits the facts better than the alternative narratives I've seen here and elsewhere.

Other than that, I agree with everything you say here. Time to move forward with a vigorous defense of our values and policies in the face of what's going to be strong opposition until the current regime is replaced.

So what does THAT look like?

Unless and until the Democratic party decides to actually start representing the needs of the lower 90% of our population as defined by income, they'll keep playing bridesmaid to an ever more nationalistic, right wing, jingoistic, authoritarian and ultimately fascist republican party, who's already been in the policy making driver's seat for 40 years.

That is the challenge of our time and the one Mr Obama spoke to in his farewell address last night.

My doubts stem from an electorate who feels like they have no voice, so they just shrug and go back to their Facebook memes and video game escapism.

In the face of that level of aggressive apathy, it's going to take a catastrophe to get them off their asses and into the political conversation, a catastrophe I fully expect the Chump regime to drive us into.

This is why I'm predicting one.

 

[Fogdog]

The DNC was not kind to Sanders and it- along with other so-called 'missteps'- cost them the election. I can't prove this, but it fits the facts better than the alternative narratives I've seen here and elsewhere.

I think we agree that Clinton made her own missteps that cost her the election. This is said in spite of the baggage heaped upon her for 25 years by a right wing who cared not about the truth when fabricating her history. Much could be called "unfair" and yet she lost the election by very narrow margins. Trump won by that same narrow margin. His focus on middle America -- not just the middle class, but the states that did not keep up with east and west coast prosperity was key to his win. Any long term plan to free the country from the 2% leeches has to include middle America, not just the coastal populations.

That Bernie's supporters can't look past his own missteps and search for excuses for losses at the margins stands in contrast to what I've just said about Clinton. I find the story revisionist and impossible to agree with. Bernie says so too. It's also not useful going forward.

My doubts stem from an electorate who feels like they have no voice, so they just shrug and go back to their Facebook memes and video game escapism.

In the face of that level of aggressive apathy, it's going to take a catastrophe to get them off their asses and into the political conversation, a catastrophe I fully expect the Chump regime to drive us into.

Do you really think that people are more apathetic than they have been in the past? The past election was a ratings bonanza for the media groups. People are intensely interested and passionate about today's politics as shown in activity in social media and in every day discourse. About half the country isn't paying attention but the other half is very engaged, I'd say more so than in decades.

I don't think there is any doubt that ten or twenty percent of Trump's supporters are watching with a close eye on recent antidemocratic actions taken by the new GOP government. Their support is not a given. Just ask Clinton about that. But we have four years of a Trump presidency regardless.

Time to move forward with a vigorous defense of our values and policies in the face of what's going to be strong opposition until the current regime is replaced.

So what does THAT look like?

Unless and until the Democratic party decides to actually start representing the needs of the lower 90% of our population as defined by income, they'll keep playing bridesmaid to an ever more nationalistic, right wing, jingoistic, authoritarian and ultimately fascist republican party, who's already been in the policy making driver's seat for 40 years.

That is the challenge of our time and the one Mr Obama spoke to in his farewell address last night.

Trump and the 2% leadership of the GOP are pushing for a new bubble economy. I think this is the catastrophe that you are predicting. They know that their actions will blow up into a recession and plan to benefit from it. I agree that now is the time to vigorously defend against their actions.

 

[ttystikk]

I think we agree that Clinton made her own missteps that cost her the election. This is said in spite of the baggage heaped upon her for 25 years by a right wing who cared not about the truth when fabricating her history. Much could be called "unfair" and yet she lost the election by very narrow margins. Trump won by that same narrow margin. His focus on middle America -- not just the middle class, but the states that did not keep up with east and west coast prosperity was key to his win. Any long term plan to free the country from the 2% leeches has to include middle America, not just the coastal populations.

That Bernie's supporters can't look past his own missteps and search for excuses for losses at the margins stands in contrast to what I've just said about Clinton. I find the story revisionist and impossible to agree with. Bernie says so too. It's also not useful going forward.


Do you really think that people are more apathetic than they have been in the past? The past election was a ratings bonanza for the media groups. People are intensely interested and passionate about today's politics as shown in activity in social media and in every day discourse. About half the country isn't paying attention but the other half is very engaged, I'd say more so than in decades.

I don't think there is any doubt that ten or twenty percent of Trump's supporters are watching with a close eye on recent antidemocratic actions taken by the new GOP government. Their support is not a given. Just ask Clinton about that. But we have four years of a Trump presidency regardless.

Trump and the 2% leadership of the GOP are pushing for a new bubble economy. I think this is the catastrophe that you are predicting. They know that their actions will blow up into a recession and plan to benefit from it. I agree that now is the time to vigorously defend against their actions.

Yes, but HOW?!?!?

 

[Fogdog]

Yes, but HOW?!?!?

I can't answer for others. Cant' do it alone though. Got to reach out to local chapters of whatever political group you feel comfortable with and put some personal time into activism.

 

[Fogdog]

Yes, but HOW?!?!?

Ok, how about this:
Now is the time to fight back and Save Health Care!
On Sunday, January 15, join Democratic members of Congress, trade unions, senior groups, health care activists and all those who believe in economic and social justice to tell Republicans loudly and clearly: we won't let you throw nearly 30 million people off of health insurance, make massive cuts to Medicaid and defund Planned Parenthood.

FIND A RALLY NEAR YOU: http://map.berniesanders.com/

I don't know why Colorado isn't holding a rally but there are two locations listed in Oregon and I'll be there. It's time to support Bernie's movement and time to generate publicity on the issues. We've got to show up and make our numbers count.

 

[ttystikk]

Ok, how about this:
Now is the time to fight back and Save Health Care!
On Sunday, January 15, join Democratic members of Congress, trade unions, senior groups, health care activists and all those who believe in economic and social justice to tell Republicans loudly and clearly: we won't let you throw nearly 30 million people off of health insurance, make massive cuts to Medicaid and defund Planned Parenthood.

FIND A RALLY NEAR YOU: http://map.berniesanders.com/

I don't know why Colorado isn't holding a rally but there are two locations listed in Oregon and I'll be there. It's time to support Bernie's movement and time to generate publicity on the issues. We've got to show up and make our numbers count.

Now THAT'S an answer!

 

[UncleBuck]

Yeah, so why didn't Clinton win, then?

Because racism?

In Trump Country, Shock at Trump Budget Cuts, but Still Loyalty

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/01/opinion/sunday/in-trump-country-shock-at-trump-budget-cuts-but-still-loyalty.html

Judy Banks, a 70-year-old struggling to get by, said she voted for Trump because “he was talking about getting rid of those illegals.” But Banks now finds herself shocked that he also has his sights on funds for the Labor Department’s Senior Community Service Employment Program, which is her lifeline. It pays senior citizens a minimum wage to hold public service jobs.

“This program makes sense,” said Banks, who was placed by the program into a job as a receptionist for a senior nutrition program. Banks said she depends on the job to make ends meet, and for an excuse to get out of the house.

“If I lose this job,” she said, “I’ll sit home and die.”

Yet she said she might still vote for Trump in 2020.

 

[UncleBuck]

Have you actually heard from working class voters in Ohio or Pennsylvania? The places that made the difference in the election? The common theme among most of these people is economic anxiety; they're worried about their paycheck.

Ezekiel Moreno, 35, a Navy veteran, was stocking groceries in a supermarket at night — “a dead-end job,” as he describes it — when he was accepted in WorkAdvance two years ago. That training led him to a job at M&M Manufacturing, which makes aerospace parts, and to steady pay increases.

“We’ve moved out of an apartment and into a house,” Moreno told me, explaining how his new job has changed his family’s life. “My daughter is taking violin lessons, and my other daughter has a math tutor.”

Moreno was sitting at a table with his boss, Rocky Payton, the factory’s general manager, and Amy Saum, the human resources manager. All said they had voted for Trump, and all were bewildered that he wanted to cut funds that channel people into good manufacturing jobs.

“There’s a lot of wasteful spending, so cut other places,” Moreno said.

Payton suggested that if the government wants to cut budgets, it should target “Obama phones” provided to low-income Americans.

 

[SSHZ]

I love to see libnuts argue about nothing.......LOL

 

[UncleBuck]

I love to see libnuts argue about nothing.......LOL

i love to see racist trumptards fail miserably at everything, including but not limited to:

*building a wall!
*making mexico pay for it!
*repealing obamacare!
*replacing obamacare!
*banning all those darn muslims!
*getting rid of DACA on day one!
*getting rid of gun free zones on day one!
*garnering an approval rating above 35%
*appointing an NSA chief who is not a foreign agent and who has to resign after 23 days
*appointing an AG who can get through nomination hearings without perjuring himself
*appointing an HHS secretary who can get through nomination hearing without perjuring himself
*appointing an HHS secretary who isn't guilty of blatant insider trading corruption
*appointing a commerce secretary who didn't found a russian money laundering bank
*draining the swamp of all those goldman sachs creatures

and finally...

*electing a president who won't be impeached and tried for treason along with his entire cabinet in the biggest scandal ever in american history.


but hey, at least you racist shitstains on america get to deport some hispanic kids and doctors in the meantime. i'm sure that the elderly, disabled, out of work coal miner from rural pennsylvania will gladly step up to take the place of those neurosurgeons specializing in pediatric epilepsy down in houston. isn't that what you mean when you howl about how those "illegals" took your jobs, you bag of shit?

 

[Aeroknow]

You don't think that Russian interference wouldn't be an issue if Clinton had won?

Oh that's right, you are the guy with future vision and is certain that Bernie would have won if he hadn't been cheated of 2 million or so votes. I'd call your proclamations unjustified confidence or maybe revisionist history but that's just my opinion.

How is the job search going, anyway?

Bernie babies:

 

[ttystikk]

In Trump Country, Shock at Trump Budget Cuts, but Still Loyalty

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/01/opinion/sunday/in-trump-country-shock-at-trump-budget-cuts-but-still-loyalty.html

Judy Banks, a 70-year-old struggling to get by, said she voted for Trump because “he was talking about getting rid of those illegals.” But Banks now finds herself shocked that he also has his sights on funds for the Labor Department’s Senior Community Service Employment Program, which is her lifeline. It pays senior citizens a minimum wage to hold public service jobs.

“This program makes sense,” said Banks, who was placed by the program into a job as a receptionist for a senior nutrition program. Banks said she depends on the job to make ends meet, and for an excuse to get out of the house.

“If I lose this job,” she said, “I’ll sit home and die.”

Yet she said she might still vote for Trump in 2020.

Votes have consequences.

When people hate what is done in their name but don't change, that's political insanity.

 

[fdd2blk]

In Trump Country, Shock at Trump Budget Cuts, but Still Loyalty

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/01/opinion/sunday/in-trump-country-shock-at-trump-budget-cuts-but-still-loyalty.html

Judy Banks, a 70-year-old struggling to get by, said she voted for Trump because “he was talking about getting rid of those illegals.” But Banks now finds herself shocked that he also has his sights on funds for the Labor Department’s Senior Community Service Employment Program, which is her lifeline. It pays senior citizens a minimum wage to hold public service jobs.

“This program makes sense,” said Banks, who was placed by the program into a job as a receptionist for a senior nutrition program. Banks said she depends on the job to make ends meet, and for an excuse to get out of the house.

“If I lose this job,” she said, “I’ll sit home and die.”

Yet she said she might still vote for Trump in 2020.

Meanwhile a single Mom in her 20's is struggling to find enough work to feed her family. Damn old people, stealing all the work.