Ttystikk's vertical goodness

Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
You stated the gas laws tty, which one I'm not sure. They apply to a closed vessel not an air handler. :(. Just answer one question and that would be, As I'm sure you've googled, why are the majority of residential AH's push through heat and pull through cold? Also do you honestly believe you are compressing the air (as in the gas laws) and that is adding btu's to the air? Keep in mind the pressure drop is like .1"wc over the coil. You keep mentioning compression but you are not compressing anything. as a "consultant" on, I assume energy savings in a grow as you have stated you are, you should be the one to be able to prove your statements with actual numbers not me. I'm not a grow room consultant just a HVAC guy ;). SHOW ME THE DATA lol
 
Jaybodankly

Jaybodankly

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I'm way ahead of you; the only problem with this scenario is that I'd need an order of magnitude more heat than the system generates to do my double wide driveway. Plus, summertime is when I'm generating the most heat and that's when the driveway is too hot to serve as a heat sink.

I may try it anyway, just to see what I can do.
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Could capture the heat in a hotwater tank and use it for domestic hot water.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
You stated the gas laws tty, which one I'm not sure. They apply to a closed vessel not an air handler. :(. Just answer one question and that would be, As I'm sure you've googled, why are the majority of residential AH's push through heat and pull through cold? Also do you honestly believe you are compressing the air (as in the gas laws) and that is adding btu's to the air? Keep in mind the pressure drop is like .1"wc over the coil. You keep mentioning compression but you are not compressing anything. as a "consultant" on, I assume energy savings in a grow as you have stated you are, you should be the one to be able to prove your statements with actual numbers not me. I'm not a grow room consultant just a HVAC guy ;). SHOW ME THE DATA lol
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I tried; you refused.

Unified gas law accounts for volume changes as well as temperature and pressure.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Refused what? I'm still trying to understand where we are compressing anything. Yes the volume increases proportionally with temp. It may surprise you but my understanding of the gas laws (all of them) is quite good, It's the basis for my particular trade ;). Really the only law that actually pertains to an airhandler is the one stated and even then does nothing for the addition of BTU's. You are not compressing the air, your moving it. Please prove me wrong so I can say I learned something today, that's a good thing :). I guess until there is actual proof then we can agree to disagree. I do have a hard time imagining an airhandler design (most) that would not use the more effecient blower placement. Again if you feel the need to change it then perfect nothing wrong with that :).
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
Refused what? I'm still trying to understand where we are compressing anything. Yes the volume increases proportionally with temp. It may surprise you but my understanding of the gas laws (all of them) is quite good, It's the basis for my particular trade ;). Really the only law that actually pertains to an airhandler is the one stated and even then does nothing for the addition of BTU's. You are not compressing the air, your moving it. Please prove me wrong so I can say I learned something today, that's a good thing :). I guess until there is actual proof then we can agree to disagree. I do have a hard time imagining an airhandler design (most) that would not use the more effecient blower placement. Again if you feel the need to change it then perfect nothing wrong with that :).
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You refused to do the experiment I suggested. If you think there is no difference between a fan blowing through a core and drawing through it, then we have no common ground upon which to discuss anything further.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
You refused to do the experiment I suggested. If you think there is no difference between a fan blowing through a core and drawing through it, then we have no common ground upon which to discuss anything further.
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Well then ok lol. I rather enjoyed it ;). I win lol.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I did the experiment I suggested and then applied the results to my own air handlers and other equipment. It works, and it continues to work even with small temperature differentials.

I consider THAT winning.
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What was the heat of extraction with one versus the other?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
What was the heat of extraction with one versus the other?
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I didn't use a thermometer. The metal hood was almost too hot to keep your hand on it when blowing through the enclosure to cool it; when the fan was flipped to pull air through, the metal became cool to the touch.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
It is the actual heat in btu's that is removed or added to the water or antifreeze mix. it's a great tool when discussing actual savings at a per btu cost comparison with other systems or fuels when consulting.
GPM x Delta T x fluid factor (water is 500) = BTU's per hour
Glycol fluid factor @ 30% is 485 give or take 3 or 4. It can be done with air as well but not very accurate and a tad more complicated.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
It is the actual heat in btu's that is removed or added to the water or antifreeze mix. it's a great tool when discussing actual savings at a per btu cost comparison with other systems or fuels when consulting.
GPM x Delta T x fluid factor (water is 500) = BTU's per hour
Glycol fluid factor @ 30% is 485 give or take 3 or 4. It can be done with air as well but not very accurate and a tad more complicated.
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...and utterly irrelevant to the physical effect I'm discussing.
 
Dirty White Boy

Dirty White Boy

Member
Budley Doright said:
It is the actual heat in btu's that is removed or added to the water or antifreeze mix. it's a great tool when discussing actual savings at a per btu cost comparison with other systems or fuels when consulting.
GPM x Delta T x fluid factor (water is 500) = BTU's per hour
Glycol fluid factor @ 30% is 485 give or take 3 or 4. It can be done with air as well but not very accurate and a tad more complicated.
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Huh? Irrelevant?
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
...and utterly irrelevant to the physical effect I'm discussing.
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Never said it was, it's a way to accurately (really the only way) test your theory, not by touching metal lol, oh and you asked lol. And I would just like to add that this whole thing is about the effeincy of an air handler not your misinterpretation of the laws you state. Not once have you explained how it increases the heat content of the air other than heat of compression, that never happens so not one of them. Tty I am not attacking what you are doing as I think it's a good thing. You seemed to get all attitude Judy when I said I didn't think it was necessary to change your blower position. I also said go ahead many times. It was you who became all condescending with your "its physics and not rocket science statement", your right it's not. The heat of extraction formula, as I said earlier, is just another tool you can use in your work as a "consultant" to help sell your recommendations, glad I could help :). If you want to continue this discussion perhaps you could use one of the many formulas that are available to prove your theory, I would love to see where the heat of compression comes in to play.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
Never said it was, it's a way to accurately (really the only way) test your theory, not by touching metal lol, oh and you asked lol. And I would just like to add that this whole thing is about the effeincy of an air handler not your misinterpretation of the laws you state. Not once have you explained how it increases the heat content of the air other than heat of compression, that never happens so not one of them. Tty I am not attacking what you are doing as I think it's a good thing. You seemed to get all attitude Judy when I said I didn't think it was necessary to change your blower position. I also said go ahead many times. It was you who became all condescending with your "its physics and not rocket science statement", your right it's not. The heat of extraction formula, as I said earlier, is just another tool you can use in your work as a "consultant" to help sell your recommendations, glad I could help :). If you want to continue this discussion perhaps you could use one of the many formulas that are available to prove your theory, I would love to see where the heat of compression comes in to play.
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TL;DR
"It works"- well enough to make a big difference.
That's my equation lol
 
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