Seedlings showing little to no growth

[TheSonsofHarpy]

***Pics on following posts!!***

Hi all,
My little girls seem to be stunted. I know these aren't the best pics so I will try to get some better ones in the next 24 hours. But here is a summary of what has happened and as much info as i can think of for now. These were started from seeds in organic soil w mychroazia(soil is ~2.5 years old!) in solo cups. after germination they were moved under a cool daylight incandescent style LED bulb(5200k), at first they seemed to be ok w the light and they were under for approx. 2 weeks, but they seemed to stop growing after they sprouted the 2nd set of leaves a couple of the plants were struggling. so I then switched the bulb to a 2700k cfl. they seemed to respond well but were only under that bulb for about 3 days before I transplanted them into larger containers (same soil, plus drainage holes .5 gal I think) and then under the mars 2 900 LED panel. They were only ~16" under the mars LED for 2-3 hours, before I moved the light to approx. 36"(where they've been since Tues 1/10). Tent conditions 18hr cycle, temps between 75-81F, humidity between 30-40%.
They've only been fed water and ph is unknown ATM

thanks in advance, any help guidance is appreciated

*edit couldn't upload pics from computer so uploaded from phone in following posts

 

[TheSonsofHarpy]

These pictures were taken about an hour ago. I will get some better ones in the next 24 hours

 

[TheSonsofHarpy]

These pics are from earlier and in reverse order; here are dates taken
12/29
12/27
12/24
12/24
12/24

 

[TheSonsofHarpy]

Ok was able to get some pics under better light from 4 of the 7 girls
Pics are of 4 of the 7. 1 looks healthy, the other are showing some leaf droop?, the other one was struggling, but looks like it's showing some new leaf growth? Thanks again everyone for taking the time to help me out

 

[Budzbuddha]

What kind of medium is that ... Because that is the problem.

 

[AimAim]

How often do you put water in those glass bulbs? You want the soil to dry out completely between waterings. If you are constantly slipping them water I would say they are possibly overwatered.

 

[TheSonsofHarpy]

What kind of medium is that ... Because that is the problem.

The Medium is a 2.5 year old pro mix(stored in a tote w/lid) I can't find the exact bag or list of ingredients, it was an organic vegetable potting soil mix w/ mychroazia. There is some granite dust sprinkled in, i also think that there is some peat moss mixed in and possibly a little bit of some other stuff mixed in. (again im not 100% sure of the contents because it was put together a couple years ago)

How often do you put water in those glass bulbs? You want the soil to dry out completely between waterings. If you are constantly slipping them water I would say they are possibly overwatered.

The bulbs were added on Tuesday when I transplanted to bigger containers. I added them because the soil always seemed dry whenever I would check it. Also the humidity has maxed out at 40%, so I presumed moisture was being sucked out of the soil pretty quick

I am still waiting on my buddy for that ph test, but still should have it at some point today. Second I'm wondering if I should add nutes(none so far) and if so which ones. I could also transplant to different material or amend the mix I have if you all think that may be worth pursuing.

As of 15 minutes ago, the plants are looking slightly better than yesterday(IMO). Im just assuming they should be growing pretty quick under this light (only 4 days so far under the mars 2).. Maybe they are experiencing light/transplant shock?

Again thanks for your help and I will hopefully have that ph test in he next few hours.

 

[Orlando737]

The Medium is a 2.5 year old pro mix(stored in a tote w/lid) I can't find the exact bag or list of ingredients, it was an organic vegetable potting soil mix w/ mychroazia. There is some granite dust sprinkled in, i also think that there is some peat moss mixed in and possibly a little bit of some other stuff mixed in. (again im not 100% sure of the contents because it was put together a couple years ago)


The bulbs were added on Tuesday when I transplanted to bigger containers. I added them because the soil always seemed dry whenever I would check it. Also the humidity has maxed out at 40%, so I presumed moisture was being sucked out of the soil pretty quick

I am still waiting on my buddy for that ph test, but still should have it at some point today. Second I'm wondering if I should add nutes(none so far) and if so which ones. I could also transplant to different material or amend the mix I have if you all think that may be worth pursuing.

As of 15 minutes ago, the plants are looking slightly better than yesterday(IMO). Im just assuming they should be growing pretty quick under this light (only 4 days so far under the mars 2).. Maybe they are experiencing light/transplant shock?

Again thanks for your help and I will hopefully have that ph test in he next few hours.

Don't add ANYTHING until your mate does the ph for you..
They look too small for nutes and that medium looks seriously over-watered.
ps. Do you have a problem with gnats?. If you are using old stuff and its been exposed, gnats tend to live in it. Just askin....

 

[TheSonsofHarpy]

Don't add ANYTHING until your mate does the ph for you..
They look too small for nutes and that medium looks seriously over-watered.
ps. Do you have a problem with gnats?. If you are using old stuff and its been exposed, gnats tend to live in it. Just askin....

Havent noticed any gnats; it was in a lidded tote. I used a rapitest soil kit. I did 2 soil tests and the ph appears to be between 6-7, Im somewhat colorblind so maybe someone with better color recognition could verify the ph. I included 2 pics from each test. I will also have pics that will be taken in a few minutes. They will be uploaded in the next post from my phone

 

[TheSonsofHarpy]

1st 3 pics are of the first ph test from different light angles
Pic 4,5,6,7 are 4 of the girls 10 mins ago
Pics 8,9,10 are of the second ph test

*Edit: Is it bad if I dumped the second test back into the soil? I just did it without thinking about it
*2nd Edit: I think I have the soil mix after looking through my old posts(90% sure it is the same mix I had then, just unused). it is right at 2.5 years and 50/50 mix of the following 2 mixes plus some granite dust(also 1 of my 2 plants then was stunted also)


Again thanks so much for taking the time to look and offer help

 

[whitebb2727]

Quit putting plastic over the cups.

They are over watered.

Now that they are in bigger pots you want to water until good run off. Completely soak the soil and then let them dry.

Remove the watering globes.




You have a combination of problems. First they were over watered in the cups and covering them in plastic made it worse.

You now have them in a peat based soil. Peat is a pain in the ass. If you let it dry too much the peat will become hydrophobic (will not take water). Put a drop of soap in your water to break water tension.


Its going to be hard to fix. First the over water and now heading into under water problems.

Go get a better soil and re pot them again.

I bought a mix similar to what you are using and hated it.

 

[whitebb2727]

After looking at the last pics I think you will be OK. Just use proper watering technique. Water them until 20-30% runoff and then let dry and repeat.

Partial watering will cause dry spots. I had a huge outdoor plant that the center of the root ball got hydrophobic and wouldn't take water.

It started looking worse and worse. I got mad and went to dig it up and found the dry root ball.


I think they will be fine with proper watering technique.

In the future pre water the soil and make sure it is moist before transplant.

 

[TheSonsofHarpy]

Quit putting plastic over the cups.

They are over watered.

Remove the watering globes.

The plastic was only on until they sprouted then I removed it, I only misted them every few days in a dry environment until Tuesday 1/10 when I transplanted into large containers w drainage, which is the same time I added the water globes. Which have since been removed.

I think they will be fine with proper watering technique.

In the future pre water the soil and make sure it is moist before transplant.

Thanks for the heads up. This makes me feel some relief.

I also believe I found the mix I used. 2.5 years old 50/50 mix of these plus a sprinkling of granite dust

 

[Orlando737]

I tend to agree with the above, no gnats, ph fine but the soil looks a bit too wet. Lay off the waterings a bit and see if they perk up a bit. I'd still lay off any nutes until they are looking healthier & only use them if you really need to.
Best of luck on your grow..!

 

[AimAim]

FWIW here's how I water. From seedlings in Solo cups to final 5-7 gallon containers it works great.

Let them dry out completely, go by the "weight feel" As long as they are not drooping they are fine. If they droop still fine, they will recover in 3-4 hrs after watering.

Set the plant in a pan or tray of water. In solos I would have them in maybe 3/4" of water. In my final pots maybe 3-4" of water. Let them sit there for a while, my big pots I let sit for an hour at least. During this time the soil is sucking in water "from below" and by capillary action is:

1) fully saturating the lower part of the pot where you want to encourage root development. If in 3" of water it will draw water upward 6" or more if you leave it for a bit.

2) re-expanding the lower soil forming a good soil / pot "seal"

I always let them dry out enough between waterings that the soil mass shrinks away from the pot leaving a void. If I water "from above" in this dry soil I will get runoff in seconds as water is just running down the void between the pot and the soil mass. Soak them from below first, then finish out watering "from above" an hour or so later. After 12 hours (I would guess) the water from below and above has met in the middle, and capillary action will have distributed the water perfectly evenly throughout the pot w/no dry pockets. I would guess they get about 50/50 water from below / above.

I keep my pots loose, i.e. no scrog /screens or anything, since I want to pull them out to water and like to move them around.

Anyway I do this with Our Favorite Plant, as well as about 60 houseplants. Pretty foolproof. Works great for me.

Not sure I have ever seen many plants chronically underwatered, but overwatering (and overfertilization) is the cause of most problems IMHO.

 

[TheSonsofHarpy]

FWIW here's how I water. From seedlings in Solo cups to final 5-7 gallon containers it works great.

Let them dry out completely, go by the "weight feel" As long as they are not drooping they are fine. If they droop still fine, they will recover in 3-4 hrs after watering.

Set the plant in a pan or tray of water. In solos I would have them in maybe 3/4" of water. In my final pots maybe 3-4" of water. Let them sit there for a while, my big pots I let sit for an hour at least. During this time the soil is sucking in water "from below" and by capillary action is:

1) fully saturating the lower part of the pot where you want to encourage root development. If in 3" of water it will draw water upward 6" or more if you leave it for a bit.

2) re-expanding the lower soil forming a good soil / pot "seal"

I always let them dry out enough between waterings that the soil mass shrinks away from the pot leaving a void. If I water "from above" in this dry soil I will get runoff in seconds as water is just running down the void between the pot and the soil mass. Soak them from below first, then finish out watering "from above" an hour or so later. After 12 hours (I would guess) the water from below and above has met in the middle, and capillary action will have distributed the water perfectly evenly throughout the pot w/no dry pockets. I would guess they get about 50/50 water from below / above.

I keep my pots loose, i.e. no scrog /screens or anything, since I want to pull them out to water and like to move them around.

Anyway I do this with Our Favorite Plant, as well as about 60 houseplants. Pretty foolproof. Works great for me.

Not sure I have ever seen many plants chronically underwatered, but overwatering (and overfertilization) is the cause of most problems IMHO.

Thanks for the detailed description. I will water them this way moving forward. They are looking healthy-ish to me(all but 2 anyway), but just don't seem to be growing.
What kind of growth rate should I be expecting?

 

[AimAim]

What kind of growth rate should I be expecting?

Well I'm not sure exactly how old they are.... maybe you said but I missed it.

But......

1) Don't put much weight between the pics you see on the internet and your plants. I've seen hundreds of pics of "my 3 week old plants" that are obvious bullshit.

2) They never grow as fast as you wish.

3) When you repot, add more pearlite to your mix, helps in many ways including aeration and drainage. I like about 20%

4) They look a little wet and cold to me. Let them dry out completely between waterings. To calibrate your "weight feel" pack a solo w/your rooting medium pretty dry. Feel what it weighs. Those girls should feel about the same weight-wise before you water again.

5) The temp of the soil is just as important (maybe more) as the ambient air temp. Just because you get to 80 air temp during lights on, does not mean your soil is still not 60 and trying to recover from a cold lights off temp. Keep the whole thing warm.

6) Pick the one best plant per solo and reduce to that one plant.

7) As you get a bit of stretch in the seedling stage, add some more potting mix, it looks like you have some room.

8 ) Air flow, even if wimpy is essential.

9) These girls will turn around real quick once you get it dialed in.

Peace - AIM

 

[TheSonsofHarpy]

Well I'm not sure exactly how old they are.... maybe you said but I missed it.

But......

1) Don't put much weight between the pics you see on the internet and your plants. I've seen hundreds of pics of "my 3 week old plants" that are obvious bullshit.

2) They never grow as fast as you wish.

3) When you repot, add more pearlite to your mix, helps in many ways including aeration and drainage. I like about 20%

4) They look a little wet and cold to me. Let them dry out completely between waterings. To calibrate your "weight feel" pack a solo w/your rooting medium pretty dry. Feel what it weighs. Those girls should feel about the same weight-wise before you water again.

5) The temp of the soil is just as important (maybe more) as the ambient air temp. Just because you get to 80 air temp during lights on, does not mean your soil is still not 60 and trying to recover from a cold lights off temp. Keep the whole thing warm.

6) Pick the one best plant per solo and reduce to that one plant.

7) As you get a bit of stretch in the seedling stage, add some more potting mix, it looks like you have some room.

8 ) Air flow, even if wimpy is essential.

9) These girls will turn around real quick once you get it dialed in.

Peace - AIM

1) they were germinated 4-5 days before Christmas so they are probably a little over 3 weeks

2)I hear that

3)will def grab some pearlite, they've been out of the solo cups in .5 gallon containers for 5 days now

4) the soil is still moist after about 1" depth. The container that had the aqua globe is still moist right at the surface. I will definitely let them dry out more before furltre waterings

5)I have a digital thermostat / hygrometer and the last 24 hours has been between 77-81 F, RH 36-41(haven't seen it dip lower than 77) Recently been a cold spell here last 48 hours, because the tent temp was staying right at 81

6)the plants have all been moved into their own containers

7) the first one I transplanted def has extra room, the others are pretty close to full

I turned the fan off a couple days ago to try to increase RH

9)I can't wait for this

Thanks so much for the love!!

 

[AimAim]

I had the same problem with 8 ) turning into cool dude smiley face. Thought I was too high there for a minute !

Fans are way more than just humidity as per #8. Keep fresh air moving over the leaves all the time, that's where most of the gaseous exchange is going on.

Of all the many factors, I think low humdity is the least significant. High humidity can release the Hounds of Hell upon you in many ways (insect & disease)

My RH runs 30-45 which works perfect for me but has others losing sleep at night. As long as you keep them watered they don't care so much

 

[TheSonsofHarpy]

Hey it's been about 4.5 days since I last posted. Just wanted to post an update. Not sure if the girls are healthy; they don't totally look it. At least one looks healthy to me. They still look small to me. They sprouted from seed approx dec 24. Some details:

This is my first grow. They are in a tent w mars 2 900 led approximately 36" atm.
Temp has been between 70 -81
RH 37-51
They were overwatered at first. There are 7 total and they are currently in .5 gallon containers. One of the girls has been stunted and doesn't look like it will make it but I'm leaving her under the light to see if she recovers. I have a tray that only hold 4 plants so I can only bring a portion of them out for photos.

Here are a few pics.

The first is jack herer(sex unknown) this is the healthiest looking plant.



The second loooks somewhat healthy, some discoloration near the tips, the lead in the right is curled up and feels dry and crispy. She is a seed I found from some good nug, though I'm not sure of the strain.

The third is a strain called kalishnakova. She is feminized. She looks healthyish? The lower set of leaves is much fainter in color than the upper leaves

The fourth photo I have today is another feminized seed named cheese. She was not looking healthy. Her leaves got super narrow and long. Those leaves have pretty much died off and new growth is happening, so hopefully she will recover, not sure what was wrong with her or how she will do going forward, but looks to be doing better.

Thanks for looking and input would be appreciated. I am still concerned about their growth rate, not sure if I should be? They do seem to be doing better than 4-5 days ago. Do I need to move the light closer? Would they benefit from some nutrients?should I cut the dying leaves off? Also wondering if I should start a grow journal or post a new thread in problems forum. Let me know what you guys think!