Flowering time miscalculation and possible early harvest

[Yellow Comet]

Hi all --

As a newbie and first time grower, I am realizing that I have miscalculated my grow schedule. I began germinating 3 seeds on Nov 17. I had 3 sprouts on Nov 22. I veged for 3 weeks and flipped to flower on Dec 13. We are now on 33 days flowering (F33) [wow, there are a lot of threes]. I will be going on a long trip Feb 7 (will be F56), and was expecting to be finished harvesting by that point. I am taking care of the plants daily (watering/nutrients/etc.), and was going to leave the drying and curing to my husband while I am away. Now I realize that when I leave for my trip, we will only be on F56. My longest growing plant indicates 9-12 weeks flowering (63-84 days). I am growing in coco under 400W HPS with General Organics nutrients in a very nice Homebox Ambient Q120 highly reflective tent with practically perfect temps and humidity, and have done some defoliation in the early flowering phase. Everything is progressing well at this point. Is it possible the good growing conditions and health of the plants will speed up maturity -- making it acceptable to harvest a week or more early? Or will it be more worthwhile to instruct my husband on the daily care taking (even though his free time is much more limited than mine and would be even more so in my absence)?

The good news is...the other 2 plants (indica) have an expected harvest window to begin before my trip...so most likely only 1 plant (sativa) would require continued care. However, this 1 plant is the most important one in our garden as it is CBD Mango Haze meant for medical use for my husband's mild epilepsy. Therefore, we don't want to sacrifice medicinal properties for convenience.

Your thoughts and advice are much appreciated!

 

[chemphlegm]

anything is possible. you may enjoy the effects of an early harvest more than a ripe one.
scope the trichomes to know when active ingredients are ripe for harvest. clear is por for me, cloudy is good, cloudy/some amber is best, for me.
you will not make any flower "mature faster" in its flowering stage.
if it is harvested "early" for you, you'll learn the "long cure" and will improve.

travel sagely

 

[Dr. Who]

@Yellow Comet
Harvest early? No. Your going to damage the quality. Would it smoke? Most likely but, no where near how it would, if finished properly.

It would be purely best to teach the husband how to care for the plants. Be sure he understands the importance of being diligent in his care.

Now then. Let me take some time here to explain a cpl of things you seem to need to understand better.

#1: No plant will finish by any given "Days to finish" schedule given by the breeder report! It just doesn't work that way. You see, your environment and his are 2 different things. Not to mention that many breeders don't count bloom days for 2 weeks from the flip, or when buds begin to show. SO then. Rule of thumb is that a vast majority of your plants will take 1-3 weeks longer then any given amount of "days to finish"!

#2: This is related to, and just as important to understand as the above. Quality of finish and potency. You may have heard or read about finishing by looking at the trichomes through a jewelers loupe! In your case this is very important to do for your desired use and the effect of the plant it gives you. The trichomes are for most of the bloom time clear and rather small. As you near the finish (around 2 weeks from the harvest point), They will expand and become cloudy. In the very last 3-5 days before harvest. Some of the trich's will begin to change color and darken to an "amber" color.
For you and what you do with you harvest. You need this to happen! Some harvest at cloudy (not the best idea) and some at various points of % in amber. For you, I would harvest at 25-30%. By doing so you are getting a better CBD profile in all the strains and maximizing that high CBD strains concentration OF that CBD!

I do about the same place in ambering for my harvests.

I hope you found answers that guide you to your goal here. Please feel free to ask anything, if you have questions.

Good Luck!

Doc

 

[tharoomman]

It's very relative. I prefer a slightly early harvest because it always gives me a more functional high. I believe in part do to the higher THC and lower CBD content.

If you need the CBDs, it's probably best you wait for the right harvest day...but contrary to what others will say, early(within reason) harvest bud will still be potent.

 

[BobCajun]

It'll have similar potency but will be on the harsh side and buds will not have much solidity, also obviously lower yield. Should get you by until the next crop though. They would really need about 10 weeks for full development. No matter what the seed package says, I haven't seen a strain yet that has fully developed buds before 10 weeks. Might look "ripe" based on trich color but it's not. You can't tell much from trich color actually. A study by David Potter, "THE PROPAGATION, CHARACTERISATION AND OPTIMISATION OF CANNABIS SATIVA L AS A PHYTOPHARMACEUTICAL ", shows that potency varies only slightly between 7 and 10 weeks. It's just the bud smoking quality and appearance that varies, my conclusion not his. A better indicator of ripeness than trich color is simply the overall appearance of the plant and the actual amount of days that have passed. It's pretty easy to tell when a plant is going into senescence. It just looks like it's on the verge of dying.

 

[Yellow Comet]

Thanks for the replies and insight, y'all. We'll plan to play it by ear to see how the plants are looking before my trip. We'll examine trichomes, pistils, and the overall look of the plant -- and try to be patient for harvest. One plant is an auto, so I hope it will be ready before my travel. My husband says he's on board with caring for the plants in my absence, so we'll keep them growing until they are truly ready.

Bob, are you from Louisiana?

Thanks again!

 

[BobCajun]

Thanks for the replies and insight, y'all. We'll plan to play it by ear to see how the plants are looking before my trip. We'll examine trichomes, pistils, and the overall look of the plant -- and try to be patient for harvest. One plant is an auto, so I hope it will be ready before my travel. My husband says he's on board with caring for the plants in my absence, so we'll keep them growing until they are truly ready.

Bob, are you from Louisiana? Us, too!

Thanks again!

No, the username is from a Tragically Hip song called Bobcaygeon. I just changed it to cajun. Apparently Bobcaygeon is the name of a waterway in Ontario, where the band is from. Hard to think up unique usernames. I figured nobody else was likely to have used BobCajun yet. I'm not even really named Bob. It also makes cops think I live in the southern US. But your hubby needs to be trained to plant sit anyway. Stuff like this comes up now and then.

 

[Dr. Who]

It'll have similar potency but will be on the harsh side and buds will not have much solidity, also obviously lower yield. Should get you by until the next crop though. They would really need about 10 weeks for full development. No matter what the seed package says, I haven't seen a strain yet that has fully developed buds before 10 weeks. Might look "ripe" based on trich color but it's not. You can't tell much from trich color actually. A study by David Potter, "THE PROPAGATION, CHARACTERISATION AND OPTIMISATION OF CANNABIS SATIVA L AS A PHYTOPHARMACEUTICAL ", shows that potency varies only slightly between 7 and 10 weeks. It's just the bud smoking quality and appearance that varies, my conclusion not his. A better indicator of ripeness than trich color is simply the overall appearance of the plant and the actual amount of days that have passed. It's pretty easy to tell when a plant is going into senescence. It just looks like it's on the verge of dying.

I have to disagree on the similar potency part there Bob......The longer they run the better! I feel that most of the middle of the road shwag is due to early harvest! I DO agree mostly with your 10 week statement! I've found over the years that simply running HPS all grow. Will make the plant have a long drawn out finish and have less ambering. Deep blues and UV make for not only a far more potent result but, a better more positive finish in a shorter time.....Those that finish properly - time wise, and use more blue's for the last few weeks. have a more intense buzz and a longer lasting buzz.....Harvesting clear is simply wasting all the time and money you invested in the plant.....Cloudy is by FAR better but, still not really "done".

Anyone who harvest's early because they like the buzz that way. Is doing what they prefer, and that makes it right for them. I respect that!

Anyway. that's just my 2 cents... Longer run to a complete finish. proper dry and cure....Knocks the pants off any early pick!!!

 

[BobCajun]

I have to disagree on the similar potency part there Bob......The longer they run the better! I feel that most of the middle of the road shwag is due to early harvest! I DO agree mostly with your 10 week statement! I've found over the years that simply running HPS all grow. Will make the plant have a long drawn out finish and have less ambering. Deep blues and UV make for not only a far more potent result but, a better more positive finish in a shorter time.....Those that finish properly - time wise, and use more blue's for the last few weeks. have a more intense buzz and a longer lasting buzz.....Harvesting clear is simply wasting all the time and money you invested in the plant.....Cloudy is by FAR better but, still not really "done".

Anyone who harvest's early because they like the buzz that way. Is doing what they prefer, and that makes it right for them. I respect that!

Anyway. that's just my 2 cents... Longer run to a complete finish. proper dry and cure....Knocks the pants off any early pick!!!

I do find that the high has a more intense feel the longer it goes, up to 70-75 days. I would actually say 75 for most strains, but I find it inconveniently long so I compromise at 70.

 

[Dr. Who]

I do find that the high has a more intense feel the longer it goes, up to 70-75 days. I would actually say 75 for most strains, but I find it inconveniently long so I compromise at 70.

I see, not what I meant by early at all though..... 60 and less is real early to me.....So much more to come out of the plant yet...
I mean I force finished a GG#4 that was at 60. Gave it 7 days of strong UV and she neared 'finished" enough for me to harvest. It was in an area in a different building used to isolate new incoming clones to be grown and cloned then finished out to look for viral problems. I needed the space bad and figured she was close enough to "push" out... The buzz is rather "off" compared to the next full length run....even with the UV.....Wife likes it, so say-la-ve....Plants that are harvested before or early into cloudy are hard to enjoy at all for me......

 

[Yellow Comet]

Does your "minimum 10 weeks flower" rule apply for an autoflower? One plant is Pandora auto and I think she is a few days or more ahead of the other two.

 

[OldMedUser]

When trichs go amber it's because the THC is breaking down to CBN and not CBD. Half cloudy/clear is the peak for THC according to Jorge Cervantes and when I crop mine. You get CBD from plants that have CBD in their genes.

 

[buyyouabeer]

Gave it 7 days of strong UV

Hey Doc what do you use for UV? I am thinking about adding some to my 3590 / 3070 COBs, perhaps some sort of reef tank LEDs.

 

[BobCajun]

Does your "minimum 10 weeks flower" rule apply for an autoflower? One plant is Pandora auto and I think she is a few days or more ahead of the other two.

I haven't grown autos yet so can't say.

 

[Dr. Who]

Does your "minimum 10 weeks flower" rule apply for an autoflower? One plant is Pandora auto and I think she is a few days or more ahead of the other two.

No. You simply have to run to a proper finish! I find them to be a really different plant across the board....Basically they simply start to bloom when they are ready - no lighting change!

I hadn't done any Auto's in 6 years....Don't like them much....till

I was asked to do a run of the Skywalker OG Auto's in the comparative grow in the "General questions section" . I'm about to harvest those and have been rather surprised by them. I hope they smoke as nice as they've run.

I got mine later then the bulk of the group and had a REAL GENETIC MALE show up in the "Fem" beans. I did a whole thread on how "FEM" is not any guarantee of "100%" female beans! It's still a contested topic. I also got a "twin" bean that popped out 2 seedlings! I was sure that the smaller, slower one would come out as subpar at the finish. It will finish with proper size and bulk! It just took it longer to get there!
I'll be posting wet harvest pics on that later.....

 

[Dr. Who]

When trichs go amber it's because the THC is breaking down to CBN and not CBD. Half cloudy/clear is the peak for THC according to Jorge Cervantes and when I crop mine. You get CBD from plants that have CBD in their genes.

View attachment 3877088

Jorge is not my guru, nor will I quote him = My 2 cents on him, period!

He's wrong on that, in my opinion, and in testing I've done.

I get stronger levels with a fair amount of proper "ambering". Thing is, most "ambering" (more like a "light tan" can be seen about the whole time trichomes are present! True amber is more redish at finish! These in turn go black and that's the degraded form of full spectrum lighted Cannabis.
What most achieve is an "amber" color and those degrade to "brown" in HPS "only" lighting. It's this "brown" that is the "dregraded" THC form that Jorge is talking about.. I firmly believe that the "amber" is the peak! It also has more active terps that effect the buzz also.....More intense. There was a cursory article in HT several years ago, about the finding that these certain terps have a big effect on the buzz quality of Cannabis. They come on more in late bulking phase and are tied to these "amber" trichs.

So ok, he's right in a sense but, he describes it poorly. I suspect that's from older books he wrote, and he should have found the difference given a proper, or more effective spectral lighting that many do today! As a side. I find it kinda funny these book writing grow guru's never seem to "correct" a "mistake" they made in an earlier findings....Sadly, they are responsible for the ongoing belief in myth's like the "flush"...Extended darkness before harvest, etc. etc.

@RM3 Would you post up some of your most excellent pictures of "proper" trichome coloring for us here? Thank You Riddle. (I'll bookmark them for future ref.)

Anyway, there it is.......What I know works in my garden.....

 

[RM3]

Jorge is not my guru, nor will I quote him = My 2 cents on him, period!

He's wrong on that, in my opinion, and in testing I've done.

I get stronger levels with a fair amount of proper "ambering". Thing is, most "ambering" (more like a "light tan" can be seen about the whole time trichomes are present! True amber is more red at finish! These in turn go black and that's the degraded form of full spectrum lighted Cannabis.
What most achieve is an "amber" color and those degrade to "brown" in HPS "only" lighting. It's this "brown" that is the "dregraded" THC form that Jorge is talking about.. I firmly believe that the "amber" is the peak! It also has more active terps that effect the buzz also.....More intense. There was a cursory article in HT several years ago, about the finding that these certain terps have a big effect on the buzz quality of Cannabis. They come on more in late bulking phase and are tied to these "amber" trichs.

So ok, he's right in a sense but, he describes it poorly. I suspect that's from older books he wrote, and he should have found the difference given a proper, or more effective spectral lighting that many do today! As a side. I find it kinda funny these book writing grow guru's never seem to "correct" a "mistake" they made in an earlier findings....Sadly, they are responsible for the ongoing belief in myth's like the "flush"...Extended darkness before harvest, etc. etc.

@RM3 Would you post up some of your most excellent pictures of "proper" trichome coloring for us here? Thank You Riddle. (I'll bookmark them for future ref.)

Anyway, there it is.......What I know works in my garden.....

Sure,,,,
.

 

[Dr. Who]

Hey Doc what do you use for UV? I am thinking about adding some to my 3590 / 3070 COBs, perhaps some sort of reef tank LEDs.

I still rock it old school and use Mercury Vapor bulbs at 400w for my size needs (250s will work for smaller applications). They will fire with digital ballasts.

The big thing with many is AGROMAX pure UV growing bulbs - T5's They have 2 and 4 footers that put out a shit ton of UV. Get the 75/25 UVB to UVA value bulbs for those. Distance from the canopy is critical in not cooking your plants. Word has it that it's 30 inch's away for the 4 ft ones.

I use my choice like many do for the Agro's about 3-4 hrs on during the peak lighting time of day. About the middle 4 hrs of lights on time...

Here's a great thread on UV in the Advanced section! Plenty to learn in there.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/your-grandpas-weed-or-is-uv-supplementation-really-needed.920065/

 

[buyyouabeer]

Here's a great thread on UV in the Advanced section! Plenty to learn in there.

Thank you for your reply, already going through that thread. I am still not sure how I am going to handle adding UV to my setup. I use a 4x4x6.5 grow tent so the Agromax bulbs are going to be too intense with the height I have to work with (hell I have fought to keep my COBs from frying the top colas). I was really hoping to find some Actinic true blue LED bar that would supplement my setup, yet be relative safe to be around. Still haven't found much in the way of that or anyone saying they use these lights like that. I like to leave my tent open when I am home sort of like an indoor jungle with some seasonal affective disorder relief, that and we just like to stare at the dank.

 

[Dr. Who]

Thank you for your reply, already going through that thread. I am still not sure how I am going to handle adding UV to my setup. I use a 4x4x6.5 grow tent so the Agromax bulbs are going to be too intense with the height I have to work with (hell I have fought to keep my COBs from frying the top colas). I was really hoping to find some Actinic true blue LED bar that would supplement my setup, yet be relative safe to be around. Still haven't found much in the way of that or anyone saying they use these lights like that. I like to leave my tent open when I am home sort of like an indoor jungle with some seasonal affective disorder relief, that and we just like to stare at the dank.

Maybe for you the higher power Repti bulbs would work.....I think I would simply run shorter plants, supercrop and run a 2ft Agro on a timer. Start to finish...But, that's me....