Why is my water cloudy? Micro Organisms

[atrumblood]

About a month ago I had been having trouble with an infection that had taken over my dwc grow. Even after 3 times of hsving the issue and bleaching everything, it would come back. The water would turn cloudy just 3 days after disinfecting it with bleach and several reservoir changes. So I decided to take a sample and plate it on some tryptic soy agar. This was the result.





There are at least 3 different organisms on these plates. One of which I am fairly certain is pseudomonas. The really small ones. The others I am still not sure about.

 

[NapalmZen]

http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/gardening-with-hydrogen-peroxide.html

or

https://www.rollitup.org/t/dwc-root-slime-cure-aka-how-to-breed-beneficial-microbes.361430/

 

[DrBlaze]

http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/gardening-with-hydrogen-peroxide.html

or

https://www.rollitup.org/t/dwc-root-slime-cure-aka-how-to-breed-beneficial-microbes.361430/

Yup, this ^^

I have a 30 gallon system and brew up microbes each week for it. The plants go nuts for the next day or two. I haven't checked rez temps in nearly 2 years (I know in the heat of summer its often in the high 70's). When pathogens try to move in the see the "no vacancy" sign and move on.

Running sterile is a loosing battle, and the symbiotic relationship the microbes have with your roots gives you much higher growth rates (the microbes release enzymes and aminos that help chelate the various macros and micros). A continually circulating, top-fed system is the best with this method, the micros live in the medium, and the solution is constantly cleaned as it runs down through the pots.

If you don't want to brew microbes you can buy Recharge on Amazon, it will give you everything you need.

https://www.dudegrows.com/recharge-vs-heisenberg-tea/

 

[atrumblood]

I tried H2O2 first. And I used the beneficial organisms. The problem stems from the fact that the return lines had a thick bio film built up inside them. Im replacing all the hoses and trying again.

 

[DrBlaze]

I tried H2O2 first. And I used the beneficial organisms. The problem stems from the fact that the return lines had a thick bio film built up inside them. Im replacing all the hoses and trying again.

Yeah once you start using beneficials, make sure you don't use H2O2 anymore as it will kill them and defeat the whole purpose of them. Also best not to use the really small water lines as they can get plugged up. I use no smaller than 1/2 inch. Also lots of air and constant circulation is the key. If any nutrient is just sitting there for along time with no air or circulation it will use up the oxygen and go anaerobic and will be the perfect breeding ground for pathogens.

 

[atrumblood]

I tried both separately. I have managed to save my plant that was in the system. Everything has been scrubbed and all fittings/tubing has been replaced and bleached. I think the issue was caused by the fact that my grow room isn't exactly sterile. I will need to put more precautions in place, such as disinfecting my meters and syringes between uses, wearing gloves probably wouldn't hurt either.

 

[atrumblood]

Well, it is back. What is your opinion?
I am using General Hydropnics GMB Ph UP and Down and Si-Armor, Bontanicare CAL-MAG, HydroGuard, and Vegamatrix Prime-Zyme.

I have replaced all hoses and fittings, scrubbed everything in Bleach. I use RO water.

The water will remain clear if I do not add any nutrients or additives, but a few days after I do add them, the water looks like this.

The color is from the General Hydroponics Trio.
The ph is kept between 5.5 and 6.0
My reservoir temps never rise above 70 f.
Could this be algae?
Could this be the beneficial bacteria from the hydroguard just taking over?

 

[NapalmZen]

Well, it is back. What is your opinion?
I am using General Hydropnics GMB Ph UP and Down and Si-Armor, Bontanicare CAL-MAG, HydroGuard, and Vegamatrix Prime-Zyme.

I have replaced all hoses and fittings, scrubbed everything in Bleach. I use RO water.

The water will remain clear if I do not add any nutrients or additives, but a few days after I do add them, the water looks like this.
View attachment 3884730
The color is from the General Hydroponics Trio.
The ph is kept between 5.5 and 6.0
My reservoir temps never rise above 70 f.
Could this be algae?
Could this be the beneficial bacteria from the hydroguard just taking over?

It looks normal. I use bennies and my water is cloudy too.

 

[atrumblood]

It looks normal. I use bennies and my water is cloudy too.

Really?! Do you have pics? I have never had cloudy water before so it is concerning to me, but then again I just started using bennies.

 

[NapalmZen]

This might be a little too murky, but I was part of a successful expirament. I brewed bennies in a 10 gallons RO with 1 tbsp of molasses and nutes. I used that to fill my reservoirs.

Bennies will make the water cloudy or even down right slimy and nasty.

 

[atrumblood]

hmm, ok. I wish the bottle would warn a grower about that shit. Everything I read says if it is cloudy it is bad. I will keep an eye on it and see if the plant is affected in a negative way. If this is the bennies, then it has taken over much faster than any other bacteria I have seen. I will have to do some before and after shots from when I do a flush to when the cloudiness sets in. Thanks for the reassurances NapalmZen.

 

[NapalmZen]

i couldn't find them, but i have pics of everything from brown slime to water so murky you cant see the airstone an inch under the surface. i will also state that as time goes and the bennies die, the water will clear.

 

[Growdc]

hmm, ok. I wish the bottle would warn a grower about that shit. Everything I read says if it is cloudy it is bad. I will keep an eye on it and see if the plant is affected in a negative way. If this is the bennies, then it has taken over much faster than any other bacteria I have seen. I will have to do some before and after shots from when I do a flush to when the cloudiness sets in. Thanks for the reassurances NapalmZen.

So, while I'm a newbie, I will tell you my experience. I grew with all of Advanced Nutrients Beneficials (Tarantual, Piranha and Voodoo Juice), plus Mammoth P and Hydro guard. The water never gets cloudy. Now, it may just be the AN line. But then again, that was my 1st grow and it was good.

I'm vegging my 2nd grow and am facing almost the exact same problem you are. 2 days later, have to wash in H2O2 29%. I even stopped using Bennies and to go sterile. But again, I'm just a 1 DWC grower. didn't help. After 4 washes, my lady was looking not happy and wilting.

The thing I noticed about whatever is in that water, is that almost over night, the ppm will stay the same, water levels will stay the same, but pH will go down a little bit first. like from 5.8 to to 5.6. Then after the 2nd night, it will be at 4.7. Did a lot of research and it says that cynobacteria among other bad stuff, will drop pH like crazy. this is before even slime sets in. I'm understanding that cynobacteria can live in cool water with or without O2. And it's a pre-cursor to pythium.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, it's just stuff I think I know. There's so much crap out in the internet these days it's hard to find good advice.

After running store bought beneficials, then trying to go sterile and after the 4th change, I decided I will never be able to run sterile just because of the conditions I'm in. It's in an apartment, I have a dog.... etc..... So I started brewing Richy Rich Tea....... (I think a lot of people know it as Heisenberg Tea but apparently Richy Rich was the originator of the recipe.). Anyway, 1 gallon of RO Water + 2 teaspoons of MycoGrow soluble, a dash of orka, a handful of Ancient Forest and 6 mL carbo load. Supposed to brew for 48 hours, but since time is the essence, I did a res change at 24 hours and used 1 cup (strained) tea after changing the reservoir, pouring from the top cuz I probably killed everything using the H2O2 (except the bad stuff).

This morning, pH only went down 0.1 and ppm went down alot and water levels just went down a little. with tea, it's cloudy. But not with the store bough bennies. My girl was starving looks like. So, tonight I will finally have my 48 hour brew and I plan to strain it well, pour in another cup and hope for the best.

 

[NapalmZen]

So, while I'm a newbie, I will tell you my experience. I grew with all of Advanced Nutrients Beneficials (Tarantual, Piranha and Voodoo Juice), plus Mammoth P and Hydro guard. The water never gets cloudy. Now, it may just be the AN line. But then again, that was my 1st grow and it was good.

I'm vegging my 2nd grow and am facing almost the exact same problem you are. 2 days later, have to wash in H2O2 29%. I even stopped using Bennies and to go sterile. But again, I'm just a 1 DWC grower. didn't help. After 4 washes, my lady was looking not happy and wilting.

The thing I noticed about whatever is in that water, is that almost over night, the ppm will stay the same, water levels will stay the same, but pH will go down a little bit first. like from 5.8 to to 5.6. Then after the 2nd night, it will be at 4.7. Did a lot of research and it says that cynobacteria among other bad stuff, will drop pH like crazy. this is before even slime sets in. I'm understanding that cynobacteria can live in cool water with or without O2. And it's a pre-cursor to pythium.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, it's just stuff I think I know. There's so much crap out in the internet these days it's hard to find good advice.

After running store bought beneficials, then trying to go sterile and after the 4th change, I decided I will never be able to run sterile just because of the conditions I'm in. It's in an apartment, I have a dog.... etc..... So I started brewing Richy Rich Tea....... (I think a lot of people know it as Heisenberg Tea but apparently Richy Rich was the originator of the recipe.). Anyway, 1 gallon of RO Water + 2 teaspoons of MycoGrow soluble, a dash of orka, a handful of Ancient Forest and 6 mL carbo load. Supposed to brew for 48 hours, but since time is the essence, I did a res change at 24 hours and used 1 cup (strained) tea after changing the reservoir, pouring from the top cuz I probably killed everything using the H2O2 (except the bad stuff).

This morning, pH only went down 0.1 and ppm went down alot and water levels just went down a little. with tea, it's cloudy. But not with the store bough bennies. My girl was starving looks like. So, tonight I will finally have my 48 hour brew and I plan to strain it well, pour in another cup and hope for the best.

bennies will lower ph in my experience. usually my ph is slowly climbing as nutes and water are used, so it kinda balances itself out.

I'm in my first grow,(just entered flower) and I had root rot once. I actually saved the plant.

After the rot, read the Heisenberg tea post. Heisenberg actually states that there are issues with AN beneficials.

You can substitute just about any product you want. Any EWC will give you a good base of microbes. Any product or combo of products which contain mycos, bacillus, and trichoderma will do the trick. Don't worry about matching my exact ingredients. The exception is AN microbe products. Stay away from AN microbe products!

link> https://www.rollitup.org/t/dwc-root-slime-cure-aka-how-to-breed-beneficial-microbes.361430/

I started applying the Heisenberg tea (subculture m&b only) to all my grows (soil and hydro) and have not had issues since. Ever since I started using tea my water has been cloudy. When it starts to clear, I add more.

When you have an invasive microorganism in your rez, the bennies will feed on it making brown clumps of sludge. This is a good thing as i understand. I have found it twice since I started using tea, but my roots were unaffected.

If you notice a dark sort of slime form after you treat with tea, stay the course. As long as you see new shoots growing you are on your way to recovery. The after-slime is harmless and will not expand or stall roots. New root tips are what you want to see.

It has actually even stopped mold growth in peat moss. Heisenberg tea has saved my bonsai tree and my Italian pine from mold. i have never before been able to grow in peat moss without mold growing.



here is my thread on how i saved my roots. >https://www.rollitup.org/t/how-i-saved-my-roots-a-bad-long-winded-story-of-newb-mistakes-and-s-y-grow-journal.930529/

h2o2 flush to clean the roots while i breed bennies. use a small container and your usual nutes with ph adjusted distilled water @.7 150-200 ppm/.3-.4 ec then add 1 teaspoon per quart of 35% h2o2. needs high DO to keep the roots as healthy as possible. also needs CALiMAGic.(didnt know that at the time) replace the water at least twice a day and rinse the roots with fast flowing water. this will wash away dead roots and flush off the killer microbes that are potentially still breeding.

i now understand that h2o2 will destroy some nutes. it seems to break down GH 3 part. i used some in a premix rez that i used for topping off my dwc and it made the solution turn from a clear brownish color(flora micro does this naturally) to a white color. it seems to have broken down the nutrients and left suspended micro bubbles in the water. this happened less than 48 hours after adding h2o2

now if i were to have root rot i would perhaps only use CALiMAGic, superthrive, and rapidstart. i would also try to stay away from h2o2 and simply change the water often using the aforementioned method. the other option is to add a small amount of bleach to your normal nutes or a light nute mix as in my quote. chlorine toxicity is a problem, but it will kill everything and the plant will simply be affected as though it had chlorine burn or excess. the plant will recover from that after you return to your normal nute schedule like it would from any other nute burn/excess.

this is all more theoretical as i haven't had a need to test it since i started using subculture b&m tea. i hope i never have to test it.

anyway, if you read this thank you. but again, like Growdc said, this is based on theory and internet advice. without extensive testing, it is basically trash info or bad advice like 99% of the other info on here.

 

[OneHitDone]

Well, it is back. What is your opinion?
I am using General Hydropnics GMB Ph UP and Down and Si-Armor, Bontanicare CAL-MAG, HydroGuard, and Vegamatrix Prime-Zyme.

I have replaced all hoses and fittings, scrubbed everything in Bleach. I use RO water.

The water will remain clear if I do not add any nutrients or additives, but a few days after I do add them, the water looks like this.
View attachment 3884730
The color is from the General Hydroponics Trio.
The ph is kept between 5.5 and 6.0
My reservoir temps never rise above 70 f.
Could this be algae?
Could this be the beneficial bacteria from the hydroguard just taking over?

Too much crap in there. Why Botanicare Cal-Mag with GH three part that has plenty of Cal?
I would point my finger at the Vegamatrix product being your main problem as I don't believe any of their stuff is geared towards water culture at this point.
If you want a good beneficial bacteria that truly works and isn't over hyped by the weed market try this:
http://www.growthproducts.com/pages/golf.asp?tables=featured&product=35

 

[Growdc]

anyway, if you read this thank you. but again, like Growdc said, this is based on theory and internet advice. without extensive testing, it is basically trash info or bad advice like 99% of the other info on here.

Hi NapalmZen,

Just to share...... googling something like "Root Rot in DWC set up" will bring up all sort of MJ forums like this with people arguing till the cows come home.

I have now resorted to published books..... and when I google, I'd do something like "Etiology and pathology of cynobacteria/pythium in commercial green houses". It brings back a whole slew or what I think might be more accurate information. Mostly scientific papers from the department of agriculture shows up. It's hard to read as they are so scientific, but you get the gist of it.

I think it's better to learn from the folks that actually do this on a large scale, every day, with scientists..... than anecdotal evidence from any Tom, Dick, Harry, Jane, Mary or Rosie online. I'm not dissing the folks on here, it's just that there are SOOOO MANY people on the forums, it's really hard and takes too much of time to filter through which ones are bullshit and which ones aren't.

My 3 cents.

Good luck atrumblood.

 

[atrumblood]

Too much crap in there. Why Botanicare Cal-Mag with GH three part that has plenty of Cal?
I would point my finger at the Vegamatrix product being your main problem as I don't believe any of their stuff is geared towards water culture at this point.
If you want a good beneficial bacteria that truly works and isn't over hyped by the weed market try this:
http://www.growthproducts.com/pages/golf.asp?tables=featured&product=35

View attachment 3886770

I have stopped using the vegamatrix. It fails the paper test pretty badly. I have had a piece of paper in there for a month now and it is barely broken down.


I too noticed my ph would drop into the 4s. However after my last reply I did a flush and added fresh nutes. The water only got a little cloudy this time and the ph seems to have stabilized. The only difference is that I did not add hydroguard or vega matrix.

My plant doesn't appear to have suffered any. There is a noticeable earthy smell in the rez though. It doesn't stink, it just smells a little like dirt.

Hopefully by eliminating the hydroguard and vega matrix things will sort them selves out.

 

[atrumblood]

That is my setup btw.

 

[NapalmZen]

Hi NapalmZen,

Just to share...... googling something like "Root Rot in DWC set up" will bring up all sort of MJ forums like this with people arguing till the cows come home.

I have now resorted to published books..... and when I google, I'd do something like "Etiology and pathology of cynobacteria/pythium in commercial green houses". It brings back a whole slew or what I think might be more accurate information. Mostly scientific papers from the department of agriculture shows up. It's hard to read as they are so scientific, but you get the gist of it.

I think it's better to learn from the folks that actually do this on a large scale, every day, with scientists..... than anecdotal evidence from any Tom, Dick, Harry, Jane, Mary or Rosie online. I'm not dissing the folks on here, it's just that there are SOOOO MANY people on the forums, it's really hard and takes too much of time to filter through which ones are bullshit and which ones aren't.

My 3 cents.

Good luck atrumblood.

Agreed. I can't tell someone a perfect way. But I can tell them what has so far worked 100% for me.

Subculture m&b tea. I'll try recharge tea on my next grow.

What works industrially may not be applicable or may be 1970's quality as compared to our info.

All the additives have caused me to go minimalist after problems. I now use my tea, general hydro nova, rapid start on younger plants and clones 50% dose, and superthrive on older plants and clones at 50% dose. I keep my EC under 1.4 and stopped having problems.