Hi guys. This is my 2nd time running into this issue and the last time I said screw it and transferred my DWC plants into soil. I want to figure out what this shit is. I have 2 autoflower plants in a 12 gallon DWC. I use HydroGuard to control bacteria but every time after a couple weeks this weird white stuff starts growing and I'm starting to think the HydroGuard I have is bad. Never seen anything like this so I was thinking maybe it is actually fungus from the HydroGuard starting to form. Hundreds of little chunks (looks like orange juice pulp except white) floating around the resevoir, and if left uncontrolled forms into large chunks the size of baseballs. Here are some pictures. The color looks different in some pics because I had full spectrum LEDs on. This stuff is even growing on the air stones and it is very aerated in the resevoir, with no light leaks so it doesn't make sense. I'm even adding extra HydroGuard when I see this stuff and it has no effect. Notice how the top of the water has some type of thin layer as well.
What Kind of Bacteria/Fungi is this?
Johnny Lawrence
Well-Known Member
What nutrients/additives are you running?
Are you using tap, ro, well???
Are you using tap, ro, well???
reddan1981
Well-Known Member
Bacillus amyloliquefaciens.
Johnny Lawrence
Well-Known Member
LOL
reddan1981
Well-Known Member
If you have had problems, look into your water temps. Hydroguard contains Bacillus amyloliquefaciens.
Bacillus amyloliquefaciens are gram positive rods with peritrichous flagella allowing motility. The cells often appear as long chains unlike many other Bacillus species that form as single cells. The optimal temperature for cellular growth is between 30 and 40 degrees Celsius.
Bacillus amyloliquefaciens are gram positive rods with peritrichous flagella allowing motility. The cells often appear as long chains unlike many other Bacillus species that form as single cells. The optimal temperature for cellular growth is between 30 and 40 degrees Celsius.
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Thank you all for your quick replies. I will give all my specs now. I just didn't mention them before because I'm a somewhat experienced grower and just want to understand what this stuff is.
I keep my pH at a perfect 5.8 using the Lucas formula (GH MicroFlora & MicroBloom). Right now the ppm is around 500, I gradually increased it because they were barely showing signs of growth and also no root growth. I use tap water, which is like 100-200 ppm (can't remember) out the faucet. The last res change I decided to buy spring water to test my luck about the slow growth. As of today I checked and they have nice clean white roots. I'll look better at them when I get home. But I've had Pythium plenty of times and HydroGuard has worked miracles. This stuff is literally like a clearish white color. It seems to only build up on the air stones and float around. It doesn't latch much to the sides. That's why I never noticed it at first, because I always swipe the sides of the plastic to feel if it's slimy. Has anyone ever heard of the beneficial fungus in HydroGuard building up like this? I've heard sometimes in the container if it's bad you'll see chunks. But my bottle is brand new from the grow shop and is clear with no smell. Also my res temps should be great because it's winter here in Michigan and they are in the shed heated with a radiator. Plus in previous grow locations I had less than favorable res temps but HydroGuard always kept the water crystal clear.
I keep my pH at a perfect 5.8 using the Lucas formula (GH MicroFlora & MicroBloom). Right now the ppm is around 500, I gradually increased it because they were barely showing signs of growth and also no root growth. I use tap water, which is like 100-200 ppm (can't remember) out the faucet. The last res change I decided to buy spring water to test my luck about the slow growth. As of today I checked and they have nice clean white roots. I'll look better at them when I get home. But I've had Pythium plenty of times and HydroGuard has worked miracles. This stuff is literally like a clearish white color. It seems to only build up on the air stones and float around. It doesn't latch much to the sides. That's why I never noticed it at first, because I always swipe the sides of the plastic to feel if it's slimy. Has anyone ever heard of the beneficial fungus in HydroGuard building up like this? I've heard sometimes in the container if it's bad you'll see chunks. But my bottle is brand new from the grow shop and is clear with no smell. Also my res temps should be great because it's winter here in Michigan and they are in the shed heated with a radiator. Plus in previous grow locations I had less than favorable res temps but HydroGuard always kept the water crystal clear.
I'll do some googling when I get home but would this be something bad for the resevoir then? I'll take a close look at my roots too.
Growdc
New Member
So, take a look at this post on another forum. Kinda looks like your stuff??
http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/38275-tutorial-kill-hydro-slime-w-compost-tea/
http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/38275-tutorial-kill-hydro-slime-w-compost-tea/
I guess the first pic kinda looks similar in clear color. But after last night I've determined this stuff is definitely bacteria and not fungi. I put like 60 mL of H202 in my res, and was dripping it directly on the floating chunks and it went wild. Fizzed like crazy and it started sinking to the bottom and then came back up almost like it was swimming lol. Creepy. H202 wouldn't react like that if it wasn't bacteria correct? I took some more detailed pics but after doing a little research I think this stuff is cyanobacteria. It's very stringy and weird looking. Check out the pics. All the floating stuff is growing in lines like they are worms. It looks like it may be eating the root hairs also.
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Growdc
New Member
Not being a botanist or horticulturist, I feel kinda excited that my "diagnosis" of cynobacteria "could" be true. Sorry, just exciting.
While my situation is not as bad as yours (as in the chunkies and stringy stuff....) cuz I think I caught it as soon as I saw brown, here is what I did and an update to my situation. (you're probably wayyyyy more experienced than me, but I feel I just want to relay my own stuff and hell, maybe I'll learn something new!! We're all here to help!!)
So, I've made sure I've covered all my basics after my 4th wash with H2O2.
I've thoroughly insulated and light proofed the bucket. I use a paper plate with a slit to cover the exposed media of the plant. I have had temperatures go up to 80F, but when I check the temp of the res, it's still at 66F. I probably got to share this super easy awesome and convenient way I've found to insulate.... more on that.
I sterilized all my equipment with both bleach and H2O2, then recalibrated 2 different ppm & pH instruments. So I think I'm good there.
I use ceramic airstones that have bubbled in 5.6 solution for a while before I started using it. And these are new air stones, not the ones when I was suffering from the slime.
For the nutes now, I just use plain ol' RO Water, Grow A + Grow B formula + Cal Mag to treat the RO water first (so I can use my pH meter without destroying it). Then the tea. That's it. And I've scaled down my nutes to 50% of what is recommended. I took out the silica, the B-52, any other store bought bennies. Just a KISS reservoir. Giving me a ppm of base 500 of about 1000 ppm.
So, update:
2nd night (last night), I poured yet another cup of tea (now 48 hour brewed, and kept the rest in the fridge) through the grow media, very slowly, so the hydroton (which by the way was also rinsed and pH'ed before using.) would absorb some of the tea as it trickle's its way down to the reservoir.
3rd day morning, right now that is, my ppm's raised a little, to 1100. But pH has not dropped at all. still steady at 5.7. Water doesn't smell. It's cloudy, but sediment cloudy.... not like milk cloudy, if that makes sense. lol.
In fact, water smells like nothing to be honest..... not even aquarium or pond like smell like before, just a slight smell like fresh cut grass.
So, I'm hoping that based on what I've noticed evidence wise..... the tea is helping, and it might just be a matter or time.
The roots, no slime. However, you know where the root grows, then there are little like fishbone hairs about 2 mm long growing out of the main root? it's like the tip of each of these little hairs has a teeny dot of brown. But the rest of the roots are white. Just the tip. I hope that's the good bennies stuck on it. Like since I can't filter every sediment out from the tea.
Above ground growth. Not much happening, but no more wilting. The wilted yellow fan leaves are still the same, but I don't think they will turn green again..... and I've noticed that the leaves that didn't wilt are now darker.... like they are taking in nitrogen.
I also started foliar feeding last night with 1/2 RO + 1/2 tea solution in a spray bottle.
Also, I had to top off 1 L of RO water + Cal Mag at ph 5.8 because that's how much they drank after the first application of the 24 hour tea. But after adding the 2nd cup of 48 hour tea, no water level drops or reading changes.
I think this is as best as I can to describe what my plants look like now.
So out of all this, at least my pH is not dropping like crazy anymore. It's not raising either, but at least it's not flying all over the place. Maybe this is the period where the plant is trying to heal itself first before eating? (this is totally conjecture).
PS: On a side note, I read some scientific papers on the etiology and pathology of pythium and cynobateria in commercial green houses, apparently, bennies make hardly any difference in hydro set ups (as far as yield and health of the plant) ONLY IF....... everything else is perfect. They start using bennies, teas especially (since for commercial, store bought bennies would be super expensive on a large scale), mainly to treat root rot or cyanobacteria or pythium. Something I read.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Simple answer, use H2o2 29% instead of hydroguard.