Organic Vs. Synthetic Nutrients

Creature1969

Well-Known Member
Duuno for sure about weed on this subject mom's tomato's sure aren't the same. You can tell by taste which ones she put in her sauce and when you slice one, you know if it came from the garden or the buckets in her garage. lol.
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
where do you get these "sighted tests conducted months apart" from. I grew hydro and organic side by side for years. is there some other test you refer to?
Why don't you tell me more about how you concluded that your organic crop tasted better. I'm willing to stand corrected but so far nobody has offered up anything more than "trust me" and I don't have any reason to trust you.

its better, its better for me, its better for my patients. its [ ... ], tastes better, [ ... ], smells better, prolly better for you too.
That's the thing, that organic is "better for you" than conventionally grown cannabis isn't something anyone has demonstrated to be true. You're assuming it is, but what are you basing that assumption on?
 

Ognatious

Member
I started organic and did so for years and then after reading up a bit on it, I switched and did a grow with ProMix and a 20/20/20 straight through and although I have modified things a good bit, I have stuck with chemical nutes for the last 5 years. Just too easy and not only did I not smell, taste or see any difference...nobody who smoked it did either. As mentioned above, I agree and would bet $$ that on a blind taste taste the organics would be chosen about 50% of the time. As far as tomotos etc. Go to youtube and search on Penn and Teller taste test.
 

ChaosHunter

Well-Known Member
Lets go the Natural vs Synthetic route and then break that down a bit and get to the bottom of it. As Synthetics go the majority are using what I would call Boutique blends and brands vs Commercial. Lets classify "Commercial" as high grade street weed in illegal states. It doesn't seem to matter what strain or Pheno it always has that "Kind" smell and taste along with it. It still gets you stoned as cooty brown but it always has that backend. I doubt the grow cartels are using Fox Farm, Earth Juice or Dutch Master.

Boutique synthetic, Natural or OMRI shit in a bucket and brew a tea we all are way ahead of the game in quality.
 

Jaybodankly

Well-Known Member
If you look at the Organic Standards Act a lot of it is about care of the soil. For the chemical farmer the soil is a medium to hold the plants and is fed a salt solution of nutrients which eventually runs off into the environment. To me a fertile topsoil is a form of old growth ecosystem. It can take a hundred years to gain an inch of topsoil. Organics was to me meant for the small farmer. A way of living and growing without needing large outside inputs being added to the system. Big money came in and replaced the hippies/back to the landers with clean scrubbed soccer moms.
Anyhow, I grow with worms. It is part of being a closed loop and recycling my inputs. All the paper/cardboard/food scraps I produce becomes worm food. An excellent balanced plant food. Worms adjust the soils pH, give of CO2 and make nutrients available as it passes thru the worm. Here is the major advantage in growing organically. When I put a plant in flower I am pretty much guaranteed a harvest. Hydroponic systems fail without notice and they have no buffer. Plants in soil have a huge buffer. I can go away for a few days and not worry. Even if the power goes out. the plant will wait till it comes back on. A few hours with out pumps running and your plants are strangling.
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
Why don't you tell me more about how you concluded that your organic crop tasted better. I'm willing to stand corrected but so far nobody has offered up anything more than "trust me" and I don't have any reason to trust you.


That's the thing, that organic is "better for you" than conventionally grown cannabis isn't something anyone has demonstrated to be true. You're assuming it is, but what are you basing that assumption on?
i said the better foryou part to get your goat. I got no idea really, but what I do know is it tastes better to me. There is no way to convey this to you. I cant prove it to you. how could I? I dont need to convince you. Playing devils advocate on the subject is cool by me but you should try it then speak of it. if you have already, and taste no difference, then we have to agree to disagree is all. I rest my case.

grow tomatoes in pro mix with chems and some in pro mix with org ferts, I did, I know the difference. If it has more flavor as a tomato, and more active flavanoids, its in fact better for me I think. if not, who cares, it tastes better anyways right
 

Ognatious

Member
If you look at the Organic Standards Act a lot of it is about care of the soil. For the chemical farmer the soil is a medium to hold the plants and is fed a salt solution of nutrients which eventually runs off into the environment. To me a fertile topsoil is a form of old growth ecosystem. It can take a hundred years to gain an inch of topsoil. Organics was to me meant for the small farmer. A way of living and growing without needing large outside inputs being added to the system. Big money came in and replaced the hippies/back to the landers with clean scrubbed soccer moms.
Anyhow, I grow with worms. It is part of being a closed loop and recycling my inputs. All the paper/cardboard/food scraps I produce becomes worm food. An excellent balanced plant food. Worms adjust the soils pH, give of CO2 and make nutrients available as it passes thru the worm. Here is the major advantage in growing organically. When I put a plant in flower I am pretty much guaranteed a harvest. Hydroponic systems fail without notice and they have no buffer. Plants in soil have a huge buffer. I can go away for a few days and not worry. Even if the power goes out. the plant will wait till it comes back on. A few hours with out pumps running and your plants are strangling.
I grow in peat in reusable pots and I reuse my peat. I get a lb every harvest out of 6 plants and I use about a lb of water soluble chemical nutrients to get that. When I do rotate out the used peat it ends up in flower gardens that are fertilized organically. I consider my environmental splash very small. Not in Hydoponic. I don't lose harvests either and my variables are certainly less than they were when I did organic.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
I don't know what you're talking about, please enlighten me.
Gas Chrome testing - I tested all my products before they hit the shelves. If I bought from you - YOU had to have it tested before I bought it! You brought it in and I sent it out. I would not accept testing reports YOU brought in with you.. I sent mine to a certain person for years - the state took away his cert. so I went to IRON LABS after that.

I liked my friend better....You could get a complete profile from him.....It listed not just cannabinoid distribution but, terps and other compounds.....Not just a "yes or no" for pesticides / bugs...But the complete result sheets.

Understand now?
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Ford vs Chevy as far as I'm concerned.
I like both.
In fact, I frequently use synthetics to give plants in organic soil a quick boost if they become deficient. Works great, and contrary to popular belief, synthetic nutes do not kill microbes in the soil -- but they can alter (reduce) the rhizosphere if used frequently. It is the plant responding to its environment that changes the soil. And it goes both ways.
VERY correct! I've made that point many times here. Good place for it to be posted again.

I don't mind synthetic at all either, really. The only real limiting factor would be how well it's cured....

As far as synthetic in organic...I can't say I haven't done it - When needed as you say. I've been doing the build soil route now and don't get to many def prob's. A bit of Age Old Bloom/Grow tend to do what I need for any "corrections" or more like plant support in a soil that may deplete a bit near the end. Teas I brew with specific ingr. can do more for specific needs......My organic CDO comes into play and I have a real hard time adding synthetics to the organic grows..

Now then, stand alone synthetics is returning to take a place along side my orgainc. Friends are doing some very,very interesting things with Botanicare's KIND.....I got so focused on what a cpl of them have done with it......I have to try it and see what I can do too.
Got 2 sets of quarts from the local rep. He threw in Rhizo something and Silica blast. Didn't have the heart to tell him I use Pro Tekt with synthetic's. I mean he was nice enough to give me the other things for testing.....

I still find it as Ford vs. Mopar. Mopar muscle rules! :bigjoint:
 

maxamus1

Well-Known Member
Anyone who uses ferts containing bat and/or seabird guano then rants on about sustainability makes me laugh or cry or throttle one of them. The habitats of both those animals are destroyed by money hungry thugs seeking to profit from supplying those ferts to the demanding "organic" market. Bat populations have been decimated by "white nose" disease. A fungus that has been spread from cave to cave by these thugs that have no cares at all about the damage they are doing.
I have been getting into organics for a year or so an have never heard about this so forgive my ignorance on the subject. With that said what would be a good replacement for those guano's and where would be the best place to obtain them?
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
chicken shit, rabbit, shit, cow shit, llama shit, alpaca shit...all great sources to replace bat and seabird shit.
 

Ognatious

Member
Gas Chrome testing - I tested all my products before they hit the shelves. If I bought from you - YOU had to have it tested before I bought it! You brought it in and I sent it out. I would not accept testing reports YOU brought in with you.. I sent mine to a certain person for years - the state took away his cert. so I went to IRON LABS after that.

I liked my friend better....You could get a complete profile from him.....It listed not just cannabinoid distribution but, terps and other compounds.....Not just a "yes or no" for pesticides / bugs...But the complete result sheets.

Understand now?
Not really. Any chance of a pic of one of these reports...specifically where it gives the ranges of cans and terps. Even better, a pic of an organic one and a non. Not necessarily doubting you, but just because Dr. Who says its true does not make it any more than hearsay to strangers on the internet. I ran organic for years, switched to chems and after a little more than a year I had dialed things in for my grow and the strains I was growing utilizing a 20/10/20 as my base while only adding epsom, and K2SO4. Now 4 years later my yields have never been better, my plants look great from day 1 to harvest and if anything the smoke is better. The biggest advantage (over and above not worrying about quantities of 15 different ingredients that I used to muck with when doing organic) my grows have become mechanical in a way I never achieved with organic. And it is still FIRE. Like the gentleman above who said he had the best in town...well he does not live in my town then. 3/4 of that lb (actually closer to 21 zips) that I spoke of above is claimed every grow even before I harvest. Some day I will get them tested but until then I will just use returning smiling faces and their compliments as my guide.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
the whole "organic" movement has never made much sense to me. plants get the same nutrients from chemically derived salts as they do from organic practices. i don't see how a plant can care one way or the other where its getting its nutrients, as long as its getting them.
you might get some preservatives in with your chemically derived salts, you might get some pathogens in your organic materials...
if it makes you feel better about it, go ahead and spread bat shit and comfrey, and i'll get all the same stuff from a bag of Jack's citrus
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Not really. Any chance of a pic of one of these reports...specifically where it gives the ranges of cans and terps. Even better, a pic of an organic one and a non. Not necessarily doubting you, but just because Dr. Who says its true does not make it any more than hearsay to strangers on the internet. I ran organic for years, switched to chems and after a little more than a year I had dialed things in for my grow and the strains I was growing utilizing a 20/10/20 as my base while only adding epsom, and K2SO4. Now 4 years later my yields have never been better, my plants look great from day 1 to harvest and if anything the smoke is better. The biggest advantage (over and above not worrying about quantities of 15 different ingredients that I used to muck with when doing organic) my grows have become mechanical in a way I never achieved with organic. And it is still FIRE. Like the gentleman above who said he had the best in town...well he does not live in my town then. 3/4 of that lb (actually closer to 21 zips) that I spoke of above is claimed every grow even before I harvest. Some day I will get them tested but until then I will just use returning smiling faces and their compliments as my guide.
Ever sense the raid last feb. The shops are closed down and I just don't have those of that type! From Iron Labs either (at least I never asked for them)....I don't keep that shit around either. All I need is the FEDs to swoop in and use past ones as proof of amounts to slam me with back tax's - They did that to Harborside in Frisco!

I used to have one floating around in the grow here. The cops took that then too.....For what, I don't know and it's one of the things I never got returned.

I suggest you call your local testing provider and ask them......All the Iron Labs gives out are Cannabiniod #'s and a Yes or No on pesticides/bugs - The OR lab may "supply" more as the laws are more strict there. THEY see them! It's in the complete test report..

I got Iron lab TX #'s if you like....ask them about terp profiles in testing!

248-313-9000 (MI) + fixed the # so fucking smiley doesn't screw it up
(541) 207-0555 (OR)

Another place is of all places - High Times! They've done several piece's in the last few years directly on this topic! They also used copies of these test reports in the piece!

I understand your skepticism! I'm just relating experience and don't keep years of evidence around...These solutions will supply what your looking for!
 
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Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
the whole "organic" movement has never made much sense to me. plants get the same nutrients from chemically derived salts as they do from organic practices. i don't see how a plant can care one way or the other where its getting its nutrients, as long as its getting them.
you might get some preservatives in with your chemically derived salts, you might get some pathogens in your organic materials...
if it makes you feel better about it, go ahead and spread bat shit and comfrey, and i'll get all the same stuff from a bag of Jack's citrus
It's just what we like! Just like you guys liking synthetic's....Choice is great!

I don't see spending money on "synthetic" nutrients that are made from disappearing resources as "effective"! I also find it odd that these "plant ready" synthetic nutrients - Are working at about 50% efficiency out of the bottle!

That's what makes me chose what "I" like!
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
the whole "organic" movement has never made much sense to me. plants get the same nutrients from chemically derived salts as they do from organic practices. i don't see how a plant can care one way or the other where its getting its nutrients, as long as its getting them.
you might get some preservatives in with your chemically derived salts, you might get some pathogens in your organic materials...
if it makes you feel better about it, go ahead and spread bat shit and comfrey, and i'll get all the same stuff from a bag of Jack's citrus
I think it has something to do with the symbiotic relationship between substrate and plant. The miles of filament messages, the various fungus', the micro beasts within etc. its the fight and search for needs perhaps. I think of a person who gets all they need while in bed with an IV or the like compared to the one who must cook his food chew it and crap it out, the one who has to grow his own roughage and work for it, and sometimes do without food too. These things may have something to do with the differences I dunno. I loved my hydro, no issues really, till poured a bag or organicare over some promix and never looked back. all in my head? maybe. I know folks that think schwag is tops too, so its all very subjective.

I know it saves me big bucks in fertilizer thats for sure. ONE ingredient to the one bagged substrate, out of the bag, it just doesnt get better than that for me.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
i wasn't trying to convert anyone, and i don't use bottled nutes, dry powders, jack's, southern ag calcium nitrate, epsom salts. i was using veganics from vegamatrix. they were alright, no real complaints, just cost me at least 5 times what they were worth.
it's always been a what works for you kind of thing. when i say i don't understand it, i'm not implying "so you all are stupid"...maybe i'm the stupid one....if everyone who did stuff that didn't make sense to me was stupid, we'd all be in serious trouble
 

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
i wasn't trying to convert anyone, and i don't use bottled nutes, dry powders, jack's, southern ag calcium nitrate, epsom salts. i was using veganics from vegamatrix. they were alright, no real complaints, just cost me at least 5 times what they were worth.
it's always been a what works for you kind of thing. when i say i don't understand it, i'm not implying "so you all are stupid"...maybe i'm the stupid one....if everyone who did stuff that didn't make sense to me was stupid, we'd all be in serious trouble
Last year I had a cluster of lobelia plants in a 1 gallon pot that ended up being an interesting experiment in organic + synthetic.
Lobelia grows extremely slowly at first, and organic soil was a perfect choice. Just gave it water and everything was fine -- for a while.
When the plant got larger, it was feeding at a higher rate and the soil couldn't keep up. I tried top dressing & teas, but it was a giant pain and wasn't working well. So I decided to treat it like hydro. I put a large saucer under the plant, and switched to DynaGro Foliage Pro. The plant took off like a rocket and by August I was feeding it every day.

Biggest & healthiest lobelia I have ever grown -- in a 1 gallon pot!
 

Jaybodankly

Well-Known Member
At the end of the day what are you left with? Synthetics just adds to the heap of trash and ground pollution. Many soils today are unusable because of synthetic practices. The soil has to much salt/heavy metal accumulation in it to grow anything useful.
Organic growers are really soil farmers. Organic soils get better over time not worse. Plants take from the soil and they add to the soil.
 
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