Fact Check: Seeds from a self-pollinating hermie are always females?
- Thread starter Humanrob
- Start date
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
^not true
there is a difference between a hermaphrodite expression and a late flower male expression. The first will produce seed stock of more hermaphrodite likely plants, while the late flower yellow finger in the bud will 99% of the time give you seeds that produce females. the pollen from these can be used on any other females that are ready to be pollinated for the same feminised results
there is a difference between a hermaphrodite expression and a late flower male expression. The first will produce seed stock of more hermaphrodite likely plants, while the late flower yellow finger in the bud will 99% of the time give you seeds that produce females. the pollen from these can be used on any other females that are ready to be pollinated for the same feminised results
Humanrob
Well-Known Member
Thanks @chemphlegm !
OK... I think I had the "late flower male expression". I had a female plant (growing all by itself) that when I chopped it down to dry it, I noticed just a few male parts around the base. As we smoked the buds, we found seeds in some of those bottom buds and saved them. We (very!) successfully grew some of those seeds in last summer's outdoor -- they were ALL female. I have about a half dozen of those seeds left.
As odd stories go, the original seeds this came from were a gift of (of course) an unidentified strain... and (of course) they turned out to be some of the best plants we've ever tasted! So at this point I was thinking I'd pop the last seeds and hope for a boy and try and cross for some more seeds... but if I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like I should not expect any boys?
OK... I think I had the "late flower male expression". I had a female plant (growing all by itself) that when I chopped it down to dry it, I noticed just a few male parts around the base. As we smoked the buds, we found seeds in some of those bottom buds and saved them. We (very!) successfully grew some of those seeds in last summer's outdoor -- they were ALL female. I have about a half dozen of those seeds left.
As odd stories go, the original seeds this came from were a gift of (of course) an unidentified strain... and (of course) they turned out to be some of the best plants we've ever tasted! So at this point I was thinking I'd pop the last seeds and hope for a boy and try and cross for some more seeds... but if I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like I should not expect any boys?
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
I dunno, maybe they also had a male expression that polinated, maybe you got lucky with fems, maybe they were not stressed like their moms to hermie, dunno.
why not grow them out. if you need male pollen.....save a branch and allow to keep flowering till she expresses.
if you see an unwanted hermie a product called Reverse will stop the sexual confusion in one application to the fan leaves.
(Alien Reverse Male Technology???)
good luck
why not grow them out. if you need male pollen.....save a branch and allow to keep flowering till she expresses.
if you see an unwanted hermie a product called Reverse will stop the sexual confusion in one application to the fan leaves.
(Alien Reverse Male Technology???)
good luck
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
If a female plant grows a male flower and pollinates itself it is a female seed. There is no male chromosome present.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
You had a true bisexual plant - if it had real deal male parts.. That would mean that your resulting seeds are 99.033% female....Or about 1:3000 will be an actual male.. Now those males can be like the holy grail in breeding to some breeders...
Humanrob
Well-Known Member
This is exactly what I originally read. The problem is... if there is no male chromosome present, then how did the plant make male parts in the first place? I really don't know the answer to this, I'm hoping I'll learn something here.
It was a true "bisexual" (or more literally hermaphrodite), a handful of male parts in a plant that otherwise fully finished as a flowering female.
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MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
They reverse and make the male parts. But there is still no chromosome for male sex in the genes
A true hermaphrodite is quite rare.
a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
This would be so much easier to explain if everyone used the proper terminology.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
I am always hesitant too use it. Everyone even calls resin glands "trichomes" so I just try to adapt.
Humanrob
Well-Known Member
My apologies, I'm new to this. What terminology am I incorrectly using?
a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
I guess i meant that if everyone used the right terminology then everyone would be on the same page and communication would be easier.
Wasn't trying to point any fingers, lol
Oh, and i believe that technically a resin gland is a trichome but a trichome is not necessarily a resin gland. But that should be fact checked for accuracy of information and terminology
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
In all classes at the college level, the term used was "bisexual" in all text books. I never saw the term "Hermaphrodite" used in any plant science class.
You state that you had "a few male parts around the bottom of the plant". If it had balls and not "banana" stamen on a few buds.
Then you had a true bisexual plant. They are rare........Now I'm interested. I know that if you "reverse" a female. the resulting pollen when used to create S1 or feminized seeds. Will come back at the rate of around 1:3000 being Full on Male. Some breeders call this a "Super Male." They are safe to use in breeding programs.
Now that I think on this more.
I'm betting on Mendalian genetics actually carrying on some percentage of the bisexual trait (as it is an actual expressed trait in this plant. Thus being passed on in the genetic code more predominately) to the off spring. This would, more then likely, radically change those 1;3000 ratios to much closer to the more normal 1:4 or some factor there of. (1:8 - 1:16 - 1:32 etc)
These would NOT be seeds I would use for any breeding program!
If these were from "banana" stamen or your "late season male expression. These are stress feminized seeds. They are not stable and are likely to carry on the trait of throwing banana's at a higher ratio.
Your 180 deg. wrong on this one Chemy.. Sorry! The ONLY "stable" selfed seed, is from chemical reversing...
When you treat a plant to go male (or part of it). You use that pollen on a whole different female plant cloned of the same mother of the "reversed" plant. Another way to put it is that, You use two clones of the same plant. One you treat and the other you use the harvested pollen on....understand?
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
"stable" ?
I dunno, I dont breed professionally. I just know that when I do this with the late flower finger pollen, selfed and on other strains too, I always get girls that rock it for years in the rooms. maybe I'm lucky dunno. I dont use the spray chems to get pollen, only the late flower fingers when I want them. so what s going on there?
I dunno, I dont breed professionally. I just know that when I do this with the late flower finger pollen, selfed and on other strains too, I always get girls that rock it for years in the rooms. maybe I'm lucky dunno. I dont use the spray chems to get pollen, only the late flower fingers when I want them. so what s going on there?
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
in addition I've only seen balls on two genetic females. A dj blueberry and the tahoe og kush. the blueberry didnt get corrected but I did correct the tahoe. no balls from the same clone of a clone since 09. treated once with reverse.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
Soma advertises rodelization to aquire pollen naturally. It is not consistently effective as the stamen at the late phase don't always have viable pollen or even pollen at all.
But if there is viable pollen and a female is pollinated with it you will get a good s-1 or f-1 feminized seed.
Just like you are saying is how I understand and have grown in my garden. My bagseed BLT I have going looks fantastic and just showed female. I never even found a banana. So it was a middle flower hidden one I guess to yield a good mature seed.
A plant can't seed itself at a late phase. It takes weeks for the seed to mature.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
I forgot to mention. I have had one female plant grow full balls from stress. So I don't think it is only bare stamen that can appear from stress. It is always a genetic trait that can happen.
I over pruned low branches in flower. The balls grew at the cut branch site.
I over pruned low branches in flower. The balls grew at the cut branch site.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Hmm, Bobcia's and slang eh?
How about at the Thanks giving table after a few rounds of passing food and shots...
Jeese,,,Does that bring back memories.
Little small turkey. Heaping piles of kielbasa, Kapusta, Golumpki, paszteciki z łososia and don't forget the chrzan. Not to mention the quarts of Polish vodka and Am. whiskey at the ends of the table! The whole famdamnly together and shots every time you turned around.....Polish in several dialects flying around! I remember the look on every girl friends face that came to "thanks giving"!
My wife of 35 years this year. Still puts out the bottles of Vodka and Whiskey....My mother, 1 aunt, and a host of cousins. Still carry on the family tradition. I do the cabbage rolls and salmon patties to bodcia's recipe. The Sausage comes from a traditional Polish market with a shit ton of awards for it's kielbasa (no Pole in a 50 mile radius buys it anywhere else). The wife makes the kraut from my ojciec's recipe and she does the horseradish too.
We all sit down together and get stuffed to football and shots....Polish is still spoken at the table...