Do you think the Dem party should move more right, left or stay the same to win future elections?

Should Democrats move right, left, or stay the same?

  • They should move to the right

    Votes: 6 27.3%

  • They should move to the left

    Votes: 15 68.2%

  • They should keep doing exactly what they've been doing

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • Total voters
    22
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
nothing that contained real evidence that red state progressives are brainwashed by big money propaganda.
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That's not the argument. The argument is that since people like you support blue dog Democratic candidates like Manchin and McCaskill, red state progressives are not enthusiastic about voting for them. The argument is that if you support someone who actually is liberal on the policy issues, red state progressives would be enthusiastic to vote for them. Evidence being Bernie Sanders town halls held in WV and KY, Alison Lundergan Grimes 2014 Senate bid against Mitch McConnell by campaigning as Republican Light, a SC town hall audience's reaction to Lindsey Graham explaining why he's going to vote to confirm Gorsuch, all of the nationwide protests against repealing the ACA.. the evidence is there if you're not viewing it through a politically biased lense.
Fogdog said:
A simpler argument can be made that they don't see Democrats advocating on their behalf and Republicans are.
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Fogdog said:
As far as this point is concerned: Are you seriously suggesting that major corporations and those who own them are collectively pouring billions of dollars into political campaigns out of simple altruism? Please tell me you're not this naive.

Major corporations quite often contribute to both sides when the donation is visible. Why would they do that? I think it is because corporations see the donation as purchasing access to the politician later on. They don't care about the politician, just the laws that they want written or repealed.
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That's all we've been saying the entire time
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
That's not the argument. The argument is that since people like you support blue dog Democratic candidates like Manchin and McCaskill, red state progressives are not enthusiastic about voting for them. The argument is that if you support someone who actually is liberal on the policy issues, red state progressives would be enthusiastic to vote for them. Evidence being Bernie Sanders town halls held in WV and KY, Alison Lundergan Grimes 2014 Senate bid against Mitch McConnell by campaigning as Republican Light, a SC town hall audience's reaction to Lindsey Graham explaining why he's going to vote to confirm Gorsuch, all of the nationwide protests against repealing the ACA.. the evidence is there if you're not viewing it through a politically biased lense.


That's all we've been saying the entire time
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Thanks for that. You seem to be able to express what I'm thinking better than I do.

Bottom line on my political position is this; if being moderate was going to work for Democrats, it would have by now.

Pushing a relatively extreme agenda has worked out very well indeed for the tea party to influence the Republican Party's direction.

What's wrong with using the same tactics?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Pushing a relatively extreme agenda
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Extreme only to those who sit right of center

Universal healthcare, universal college, paid maternity leave and vacation time, raising the minimum wage to a living wage, etc. These are not "extreme" policies. These are normal all over the first world, the US is the only place where they're not normal.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Extreme only to those who sit right of center

Universal healthcare, universal college, paid maternity leave and vacation time, raising the minimum wage to a living wage, etc. These are not "extreme" policies. These are normal all over the first world, the US is the only place where they're not normal.
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The other things that are NOT NORMAL about America are the extreme levels of wealth and income inequality and the stubbornly sluggish economy.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
trump won that district by 27 points.

estes won it by 6, after calling in pence, cruz, and robo-calls from trump. democrats did nothing to help their guy.

that's a shocking change in just 6 months.
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So why aren't Democrats doing anything to help their down ticket candidates?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
trump won that district by 27 points.

estes won it by 6, after calling in pence, cruz, and robo-calls from trump. democrats did nothing to help their guy.

that's a shocking change in just 6 months.
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Even Kansas conservatives are questioning some tax cuts;
Justin-case said:
Kansas' small business tax break draws fire even from some who benefit | The Kansas City Star

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article98185532.html&ved=0ahUKEwiuhtTFypzTAhUT8GMKHe54ClkQFgguMAA&usg=AFQjCNFojaoaop_mjOjLGJ3CZh0ROOwhfQ&sig2=4x9VwK0VX-xre_TX1x_3fw
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
you can't even explain your opposition to TPP.
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What do you think it is? An inclusive trade deal that takes care of business? It is part of an exclusive partnership of and for the controlling corporations. It doesn't even help the citizens.
Fogdog said:
Calling people stupid is dismissing their views. Most people aren't stupid. Most people are average. The average human is pretty smart. That you think they are stupid is more on you and your inability or unwillingness to understand. I do the same too, not saying I'm above all this.

Trump supporters sound like idiots to me too. But that's because we have a different world view, not because they are dumb. Also, for the most part, they want the same for this country as you and I. Calling people stupid accomplishes negative results from people who can be allies.
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Agreed exept about average intelligence. Average intelligence is far below genius. Low iq's are common. But most people can understand the same consepts if the education speaks to them in a way they understand and relate. That doesn't happen enough...
UncleBuck said:
trailernomics.

go count some pennies.
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See here is you being classist
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I am wondering why as well.

NPR this morning had an article on this. NPR reported the DNC as saying they were staying out of these elections because they thought the national party could only hurt the candidate. LOL

http://www.npr.org/2017/04/11/523369388/news-brief-all-eyes-on-tillersons-moscow-visit-kansas-special-election

A losing attitude if ever I heard one.
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This situation tells me three things;
  1. That the Democratic Party knows they don't represent the majority of Americans.
  2. They don't care...
  3. ...because their internal measure of success does not include representing We the People or our needs.

There are multiple movements afoot to start a third party to the left of the unapologetically corporate captured 'Democratic' party and Bernie has shown that working with the Dems is not the way forward; they've clearly taken on the role of sabotaging anyone from the left.

Therefore, it's time to stop treating the Democratic Party Establishment with any level of respect and to start working for We the People.

Establishment Democrats like @UncleBuck may complain, but until/unless the Democratic Party begins to actually fight for the interests of the 99%, as opposed to just the top 10%, they will remain part of the problem and will reliably campaign AGAINST the solution.
 
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