Mysterious Bugs Return Again! HELP IDENTIFY PLEASE

[ScaryHarry45]

So I have been battling a pest for some time now. I thought they were root aphids, and I'm still leaning this way as they are only seen on the ground and on the outsides of pots. But when I get them under the microscope they dont look like any root aphid I have seen documented online. They are tiny white bugs that can be seen just barely with the naked eye. I have recently shut down my entire grow and cleaned my grow area from top to bottom and set off a pyrethrin bomb. I threw away all my old pots and soil and started fresh. I deployed hypoaspis miles , rove beetles, nematodes and amblyseius fallacis when I planted as well but apparently that didnt do shit. These are the most persistent and voracious pest I have ever dealt with. I have attached the best photos I could get . These pics show what look like eggs attached to the bugs themselves. They move relatively fast under the scope so it has been hard to get a great pic. PLEASE HELP ME !

 

[NaturalFarmer]

Many mites live in soil yet only a few eat roots. Great pics by the way.

 

[ScaryHarry45]

Many mites live in soil yet only a few eat roots. Great pics by the way.

View attachment 3920280

Do you think these are not aphids? They do not resemble aphids to me but maybe some weird stage of aphid? In my experience as this pest progresses the plants develop leaf deformities, burnt tips, and yellowing of leaves . This leads me to think they are not a beneficial bug by any means.

 

[NaturalFarmer]

The dont look like root aphids to me but are they eating your roots? Can I see your plant? any stress?

 

[ScaryHarry45]

@NaturalFarmer No real stress yet, as this is the first I have seen them since I started back up . The first signs usually look like something chomped on the leaf or holes in the middle of the leaf. This is often accompanied by leaf tip burn and yellowing of lower leaves. I'm hoping I can beat them back now as I'm still in veg. I am keeping my eyes peeled for any signs. I'm almost sick to my stomach thinking about having to kill my precious plants again. Thats what I had to do last time. I'm getting pretty damn good at killing plants though hahah

 

[NaturalFarmer]

I think often people see mites and think the worst (done it myself). Watch for the margins of your leaves (the teeth) for stress signs.
pH?
What soil do you use?

 

[ScaryHarry45]

@NaturalFarmer It's a mix of promix bx, mushroom compost, added perlite and some amendments. I never check pH. The teeth or margins is where I have seen signs of stress in the past so I will keep an eye out.

 

[NaturalFarmer]

If you can get a plant shot it may help some. I would get a cheap soil pH pen and check. What amendments?

 

[ScaryHarry45]

@NaturalFarmer Unfortunately I dont have a camera for plant shots. My amendments are kelp, alfalfa, neem seed meal, gypsum, azomite, and some jobes organic powdered fertilizer. I kind of just used what I had lying around. This time around I first noticed these bugs on the outside of some fabric pots . Those were the first pics I got above and they look to have eggs attached to them. OVer the weekend I hit them with some pyrethrin then a OG Biowar drench. The next morning the outsides of the pots were littered with these bugs, some appeared dead or very slow moving but others were still moving around a bit. I think they were eggs that hatched or maybe they were trying to get out of the unfavorable conditions in the soil. I was able to get some better pics over the weekend from the outsides of the fabric pots and I think they are pretty clearly root ahpids. I think that they may have survived in the rug I have in my basement which is the only thing I didnt fully clean ( rug cleaner , spray with pyrethrin etc) I only vacuumed it. Below are the new pics which show classic pear shape and the two pipes coming out the back. Needless to say I'm not very optimistic

 

[Dr. Who]

Not ROOT APHIDS!

Those look like soil mites as NatFarm said!

SOIL MITES ARE BENEFICIAL for organic grows! They help break down the larger and woody media in soils....They are not effected by the insects you attempted to fight them with, because they are a beneficial part of the soil-food web!
They do not eat plant roots!
Stop attempting to kill them and welcome them!

 

[ScaryHarry45]

@Dr. Who These are not beneficial insects I can assure you that. In fact some guys from another forum seem to think they may be broads. I need to positively ID these in order to move forward. I never even really see them in the soil, they are crawling on the outside of my fabric pots. Although my plants are showing signs of stress yet I know its coming and I'd like to combat these while I still can

 

[Dr. Who]

@Dr. Who These are not beneficial insects I can assure you that. In fact some guys from another forum seem to think they may be broads. I need to positively ID these in order to move forward. I never even really see them in the soil, they are crawling on the outside of my fabric pots. Although my plants are showing signs of stress yet I know its coming and I'd like to combat these while I still can

Ok, I stepped back, started over and am answering nicely..

Your wrong. - They are very wrong!

1: They are not Root aphids!
2: They are not Broad mites!

They are exactly a soil mite! There are many types. They are a part of the organic soil food web. They are beneficial insects!

How do I know? I learned all about it in Agronomy classes in college!
a·gron·o·my
əˈɡränəmē/
noun

1. the science of soil management and crop production.

I have also been growing "our" plant for over 44 years...

Now, how about you tell me just what soil this is, or what you built it with, or added to it!

You say your plant is or isn't "stressed" yet? (your wording is confusing)...

You keep putting pyrethrins on your soil and you will see the plant stress!

I suggest you calm down. Have a little faith and quit over-reacting!

 

[ScaryHarry45]

@Dr. Who I think you may be a bit off track. In fact the ones that I didn't treat with pyrethrin are showing stress. They are developing tears in the new leafs and holes in the middle of the leaves. Yellowing from the bottom up and I also have some copper like spots in the leaves and tip burn. These are the same symptoms I have seen develop time and time again over the past 6 monnths. Its not my soil as a fellow grower of mine uses an almost identical recipe with no ill effects. I am not over reacting and I don't need the phonetic spelling of the word agronomy. I appreciate your efforts, thank you

 

[Dr. Who]

@Dr. Who I think you may be a bit off track. In fact the ones that I didn't treat with pyrethrin are showing stress. They are developing tears in the new leafs and holes in the middle of the leaves. Yellowing from the bottom up and I also have some copper like spots in the leaves and tip burn. These are the same symptoms I have seen develop time and time again over the past 6 monnths. Its not my soil as a fellow grower of mine uses an almost identical recipe with no ill effects. I am not over reacting and I don't need the phonetic spelling of the word agronomy. I appreciate your efforts, thank you

Those are not root aphids in your pics! They do not travel about the soil. They dig into roots and park there. They look nothing like the pics you give....The problems you state are NOT the problems you get from Broad mites!

How about some pictures of the effected plants please? Show us the effected area and a whole plant shot if you will.....please!
I don't care what your buddies soil does..You say almost the same anyway!
I asked what was in it and I'd like the source of the materials used.
These will help me figure out whats exactly going on!

I'll also ask the what water do you use?
Do you feed or supplement anything?
What is it?
How often used?
How much?
What are the day/night temps?
RH?

Lets start over from here and see what we can find ... eh?

You want help and I want to.....understand better? Now drop the defensive posture and lets find out a solution....

 

[Dr. Who]

Didn't even comeback for a look.....some folks have to realize that waiting for the answer you want.....Is generally not, the answer!

 

[ScaryHarry45]

@Dr. Who

I'm back! I'd like to apologize for doubting you. I reached out to a couple entomologists and they also think they look like hypoaspis miles. I will say this though, the hypoaspis I released were much larger had a reddish in tinge. The bugs I scoped look like a spec of dust until you examine closely and see they're moving. Ok any ways enough bout those damn bugs for a minute. I was able to snag a couple pics of the damage I was talking about. It would appear as if the damage is mechanical but it would require a bug that would be easily seen in my opinion(Something I have not seen)

To answer your questions:

ll also ask the what water do you use?- I'm on local municipal water that I let sit out for at least 24 hours
Do you feed or supplement anything?- I used jobes organic fertilizer at transplant, My soil is amended with insect frass, mushroom compost, kelp, neem meal , alfalfa, gypsum, azomite. I mainly just water only with occasional coconut water at 1/4 per gallon and aloe at the same rate. With in the last week I have introduced modern microbes and OG Biowar

How often used? Coconut water and aloe feeding one time since I started them about a month ago. Other than that I just use water. I applied OG Biowar one time which was earlier this week and those plants look great

What are the day/night temps? Day time temps range 75-80 and night time drops to about 60

RH? It hovers around 50-60% right now.

This morning I hit my plants with a tea I brewed (36 hour brew) from insect frass , mushroom compost, yucca and molasses. I added 1/2 tsp per gallon of agsil after it was brewed . I foliar sprayed and watered it in. My plan is to activate the SAR response and get these plants in good health. In all honesty my plants are looking pretty good right now aside from just a couple that haven't fully bounced back after transplant.

I'm not sure what to think about the damage I posted but I'm gonna step back and chill out and stop trying to do too much for these plants. I'm just freaked out from the last 6 months of not having successful crops. So I apologize again for being defensive and I appreciate your willingness to help.

 

[Rasta Roy]

Broad mites like to live inside the stems of your plants and are not visible to the naked eye.

Your leaf tips would be curling upward and your leaves develop an almost plastic or waxy looking sheen to them.

I just got done dealing with broad mites not long ago, that is not your issue here friend.

I would er on the side of them being a beneficial bug, spray your plant daily with neem. No harmful bugs will touch your plant, and those little guys will disappear after they munch up the organic matter in the soil (and leave you with some insect frass!).

 

[Dr. Who]

@Dr. Who

I'm back! I'd like to apologize for doubting you. I reached out to a couple entomologists and they also think they look like hypoaspis miles. I will say this though, the hypoaspis I released were much larger had a reddish in tinge. The bugs I scoped look like a spec of dust until you examine closely and see they're moving. Ok any ways enough bout those damn bugs for a minute. I was able to snag a couple pics of the damage I was talking about. It would appear as if the damage is mechanical but it would require a bug that would be easily seen in my opinion(Something I have not seen)

To answer your questions:

ll also ask the what water do you use?- I'm on local municipal water that I let sit out for at least 24 hours
Do you feed or supplement anything?- I used jobes organic fertilizer at transplant, My soil is amended with insect frass, mushroom compost, kelp, neem meal , alfalfa, gypsum, azomite. I mainly just water only with occasional coconut water at 1/4 per gallon and aloe at the same rate. With in the last week I have introduced modern microbes and OG Biowar

How often used? Coconut water and aloe feeding one time since I started them about a month ago. Other than that I just use water. I applied OG Biowar one time which was earlier this week and those plants look great

What are the day/night temps? Day time temps range 75-80 and night time drops to about 60

RH? It hovers around 50-60% right now.

This morning I hit my plants with a tea I brewed (36 hour brew) from insect frass , mushroom compost, yucca and molasses. I added 1/2 tsp per gallon of agsil after it was brewed . I foliar sprayed and watered it in. My plan is to activate the SAR response and get these plants in good health. In all honesty my plants are looking pretty good right now aside from just a couple that haven't fully bounced back after transplant.

I'm not sure what to think about the damage I posted but I'm gonna step back and chill out and stop trying to do too much for these plants. I'm just freaked out from the last 6 months of not having successful crops. So I apologize again for being defensive and I appreciate your willingness to help.

Thank you! I'm still glad to help....

Ok, looking at your mix. The only real issue I have is the mushroom compost. You must be real careful with mushroom compost. It is "salty" - not fert salts but, "sodium salty"..This is a byproduct of mushroom growing....I would suggest in the future to use Steer or cow manure compost! You'll bring in all kinds of new myco's to your soil and it has better nutrient value...

Brewing the MR compost in a tea will still pass the salts along and increase the build up of them.. You get a far better myco spread from the grass eating poop factories of cows......That manure - composted, is like EWC - One is gold and the other is Platinum!

Now then, as to your plants. That little skip in the leaf structure can be rather common. Nothing to be concerned about at this point.....If the plant gets over a ft or so in veg and it continues this to a larger scale or more of it happens.....I would be looking at the salt in the soil as a concern...Leeching it out might help for this run at that point....Don't try it now.. The plants look just fine!

Agsil = Potassium Silicate SAR responce? Not going to get much from that! You did get some from the frass = Chitonase delivers a SAR responce.....It's believed that it causes the plant (cannabis) to increase resin production from exposure.....Mostly that is delivered by watering....A bit early to do that and expect the result I gave. Nice for the soil as it repel's bugs though!

If you really want to increase trich/terp procution......Deliver S (sulfur) in late veg and all through bloom.....Ways to add S - Mag sulfate solutions and Potassium sulfate solutions......Search "Home made Sweet Raw" and Homemade Terpinator/Resinator" here at this site for how to make your own for cheap......Use organic sourced Epsom and Potassium sulfate to stay "kosher" if that's your goal.....

Your RH should be held at 50% - I bloom at 40% (increased uptake and less PM chances)
I would like to see temps lower but, understand issues with cooling and costs.....Ideal would be 71-72 F......and a 10 deg. drop at night.

Questions? Please feel free to contact me at any time.

 

[undercovergrow]

@Dr. Who

you rock. thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge on these boards and helping people grow their medicine. your patience and willingness to help others is noted by those of us who don't know a lot but peruse these boards frequently and are still learning.

 

[Dr. Who]

@Dr. Who

you rock. thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge on these boards and helping people grow their medicine. your patience and willingness to help others is noted by those of us who don't know a lot but peruse these boards frequently and are still learning.

Why thank you! How kind of you....