Failing aero

[Richardz]

This can be a great "what not to do" guide for first time hydro growers.
I started my first aero grow. I've done one minor soil grow before with decent results.

I'm defiantly in over my head, but not giving up at all.

I started my screw ups not getting enough seeds. Only bought a 5 pack, hoping to pop all 5, and there not even feminized. Only popped 3 of 5. 1 died within a day.

Now I'm hanging on to my last two babies for dear life, and they aren't doing well.

My setup:

4x4 tent
600w mh/hps
60 gal res. (Only fill to 20 currently)
4-way air pump w/ 4 air stones (I think it's 100psi)
Halo drip rings

I had a cheap piece of crap exhaust fan. Was not working at all. Returned and have a 400 cfm will be here in two days.

I'm roughly 3 weeks in. Heat has been an issue since day 1. It took me a while to realize the exhaust fan was junk. Ive used all my PH down(1liter), so I just ordered a gallon.

I'm not sure why I chose the drip rings vs the misters. The more I read, it seems the misting jets are way more popular. Should my water be running 24/7? I see misting schedules, like: 4 seconds on 5 minutes off.
What's it like for the drip rings?

And last but not least, how sick are my girls? Do they stand a chance? I planned on at least getting a good learning curve out of this, but I haven't learned crap...and there gonna be dead before I do.

Thanks !!

 

[FennarioMike]

It looks like over watering and/or too high ppm's.

What are you feeding them, what kind of water are you using, how often, I'm assuming it's coco medium, and what is your pH and PPM's?

 

[Jypsy Dog]

Those Seedlings are a week from needing ANY FOOD. First Grow.. Make you life simple. Go to DWC for your fist few grows. Single buckets. You only kill one plant at a time. Just keep it simple, and the parts come together. http://www.hydroponics-simplified.com/

 

[Richardz]

It looks like over watering and/or too high ppm's.

What are you feeding them, what kind of water are you using, how often, I'm assuming it's coco medium, and what is your pH and PPM's?

Thanks for the reply mike.

I feel like I'm overwatering. My drip rings run 24/7 currently. I used regular tap . Im currently exploring R/O setup options. I fed once a week ago with 1/4 strength "general hydroponics 3 pack". Once they started looking unhealthy I changed the water.

My PH is absolutely killing me. In my 25G res, I've dumped in about 50 ML of ph down. And it's not affecting it at all. Steady sits at 7-7.5.

I have blown through the initial liter I bought of ph down. And awaiting on a gallon. Is there a general reference of how much ph down to use? Or a worksheet, gallons to PH down sort of thing?

Using growstones as a medium. And I'm looking on amazon right now for a ppm meter.

Thanks a bunch for any and all advice. Really, really appreciated.

 

[Richardz]

Thanks gypsy.

I already fed them once . They immediately got shocked and were turning brown, so I just flushed. I really want to stick with this setup, as it's not even complete yet, before trying anything else. Im not afraid to fail completely and start over.

Thanks!

 

[mjinc]

Thanks for the reply mike.

I feel like I'm overwatering. My drip rings run 24/7 currently. I used regular tap . Im currently exploring R/O setup options. I fed once a week ago with 1/4 strength "general hydroponics 3 pack". Once they started looking unhealthy I changed the water.

My PH is absolutely killing me. In my 25G res, I've dumped in about 50 ML of ph down. And it's not affecting it at all. Steady sits at 7-7.5.

I have blown through the initial liter I bought of ph down. And awaiting on a gallon. Is there a general reference of how much ph down to use? Or a worksheet, gallons to PH down sort of thing?

Using growstones as a medium. And I'm looking on amazon right now for a ppm meter.

Thanks a bunch for any and all advice. Really, really appreciated.

That's very strange. Do you wait 30 minutes to an hour between adding whatever you use for PH down and testing? Also what is the PH of your water to when it comes out of the tap?

 

[Richardz]

That's very strange. Do you wait 30 minutes to an hour between adding whatever you use for PH down and testing? Also what is the PH of your water to when it comes out of the tap?

Yes, I have been waiting. I assumed it needs to circulate a bit first. I also double check the ph readings. One from the drip and one from the drain of res.

It seems the PH is finally dropping. It was roughly 25 gallons filled. (One thing I need to do is, mark my res somehow so I can record exactly how much water is in there currently for note taking/mastering ph balance in future.)

The pic labeled res, is now @ 6.2.

The other pic, labeled tap @ 9+ I think.

Maybe that was my issue, it started out so high? Took a ton of PH down to finally get it in normal range?

Thanks for the help.

 

[mjinc]

I would look to get a decent ph pen, it will give you a more accurate reading especially if you maintain it well. If you are getting a ph of 9+ out of your tap then that's going to be the reason you need so much ph down. The ph scale is logarithmic so you have to take that into consideration

 

[FennarioMike]

Yes a calibrated pH meter is a must. Many municipalities add a buffer to make the water neutral (7) pH so that it doesn't leach metals as quickly from the pipes. In our case, most of our nutrients and ,micronutrients are also metals but we WANT them dissolved, so we keep the pH below neutral. When there is a buffer present, like the name implies, it neutralizes a certain amount of acids until it's depleted. Also, for 25 gallons, you could certainly add more than 25 mL and still not be where you want to be.

I use RO water and I have a 64 gallon rez. After I have mixed all my nutes it usually ends up around 6.5ish. It probably takes me 60 - 80 mL to get it down to 5.7.

But as to your watering - if it was ONLY grow stones, the a 24 hour drip would probably be fine. But it looks like your plants were started in rapid rooters - or something that is holding that moisture and keeping the root crown constantly soaked. You don't want this - it will swell the stem and cause stem rot and die. You're going to want to give it time to drain out or you need to get that rapid root up above the grow stones enough that it can drain and that root crown can stay pretty dry as well as the stem. I think this is your issue mostly.

 

[draxhemp]

I think your problem is the starter soil you used is retaining to much moisture I have this issue on 3 of the 8 plants I just planted. 3 in cubes 5 just seeds thrown in rocks and I let grow. the ones thrown in are 10-14 inches the cubes...4-5.. /tear

 

[Richardz]

Yes a calibrated pH meter is a must. Many municipalities add a buffer to make the water neutral (7) pH so that it doesn't leach metals as quickly from the pipes. In our case, most of our nutrients and ,micronutrients are also metals but we WANT them dissolved, so we keep the pH below neutral. When there is a buffer present, like the name implies, it neutralizes a certain amount of acids until it's depleted. Also, for 25 gallons, you could certainly add more than 25 mL and still not be where you want to be.

I use RO water and I have a 64 gallon rez. After I have mixed all my nutes it usually ends up around 6.5ish. It probably takes me 60 - 80 mL to get it down to 5.7.

But as to your watering - if it was ONLY grow stones, the a 24 hour drip would probably be fine. But it looks like your plants were started in rapid rooters - or something that is holding that moisture and keeping the root crown constantly soaked. You don't want this - it will swell the stem and cause stem rot and die. You're going to want to give it time to drain out or you need to get that rapid root up above the grow stones enough that it can drain and that root crown can stay pretty dry as well as the stem. I think this is your issue mostly.

Thanks a lot for that info! It makes perfect sense with the rocks vs soil. I removed the drip rings and grabbed the soil pod which basically exploded everywhere. Cleaned it up and placed back.


Also, thanks for the PH references, I'm learning a ton. I feel so much more confident just from today.

If I was to start round 2, would you recommend a different seedling cube to start with? Or just use the same stuff, but keep them elevated and not soaked all the time?

thanks again

 

[Richardz]

I think your problem is the starter soil you used is retaining to much moisture I have this issue on 3 of the 8 plants I just planted. 3 in cubes 5 just seeds thrown in rocks and I let grow. the ones thrown in are 10-14 inches the cubes...4-5.. /tear

Aww man, that's to bad. Sounds like you've at least figured out what to do moving forward.

How'd you go about that anyways? Just dropped them right on top of your rocks? Any lights or water running while you did that?

I'm pretty sure I'm ready for round 2. Unless these guys resurrect.

I'm a bad father.

 

[draxhemp]

I dropped 3 seeds in each net pot let the best looking one live =) small 3 inch pots so might lose one in the mix but that's ok.

 

[FennarioMike]

Thanks a lot for that info! It makes perfect sense with the rocks vs soil. I removed the drip rings and grabbed the soil pod which basically exploded everywhere. Cleaned it up and placed back.


Also, thanks for the PH references, I'm learning a ton. I feel so much more confident just from today.

If I was to start round 2, would you recommend a different seedling cube to start with? Or just use the same stuff, but keep them elevated and not soaked all the time?

thanks again

Well, ideally, you'd clone with an aero cloner, or bubble bucket cloner so that you grow roots only - no medium at all. The stem is just held by a neoprene plug. Then when you transplant, no muss no fuss.

I grow mostly DWC and RDWC but I also have a bunch of moms in coco. But I do all of my clones this way even if they're going in coco. In these systems, those rooters or rock wool can cause issues. They can certainly be used - if you do, I'd go with rock wool, it won't come apart on you - just grow out your seedlings on a tray so that the roots can grow out of the bottom. Once they have a good amount of roots sticking out, you can just place it righto in top of the grow stones. You may have to hand water for a week or so until the roots get down into the rocks, or adjust your drip. Or grow them roots only and you're good to go.

 

[FennarioMike]

 

[Richardz]

It's official, I killed everything. Going to clean up, set up exhaust fan, and be completely ready to go this time. Got a huge supply of ph down. A ph pen, and a ppm pen, and a 400 cfm exhaust. (Should I buy a control panel to adjust the exhaust fan? The thing is crazy powerful.)
Also, should I buy a fan for fresh incoming air? Or will the negative pressure just suck in enough?

I have 10 new females coming. Should I germinate them in a napkin and then just drop them right on top of the rocks?

Now, since the growrocks don't retain much water. I don't really need a watering cycle?

Any other tips are greatly appreciated. I have roughly another 10 days to get prepared.

Thanks!

 

[FennarioMike]

It's official, I killed everything. Going to clean up, set up exhaust fan, and be completely ready to go this time. Got a huge supply of ph down. A ph pen, and a ppm pen, and a 400 cfm exhaust. (Should I buy a control panel to adjust the exhaust fan? The thing is crazy powerful.)
Also, should I buy a fan for fresh incoming air? Or will the negative pressure just suck in enough?

I have 10 new females coming. Should I germinate them in a napkin and then just drop them right on top of the rocks?

Now, since the growrocks don't retain much water. I don't really need a watering cycle?

Any other tips are greatly appreciated. I have roughly another 10 days to get prepared.

Thanks!

The negative pressure will pull in enough air - but don't forget, with that air that it's pulling in, it will also pull in any dust or hair. In mine, I did put in an incoming air fan as well, that pulls in outdoor air. My outgoing fan is 6" and incoming is 4", so there's still a negative pressure. I also made incoming air filters with panty hose and 6" duct so that my very hairy dog's hair doesn't get pulled into the tent. I also put more robust filters at the incoming (outside) air vent - just so that nothing gets pulled in from outside.

There are a number of ways to germinate, but a wet paper towel in a baggie is fine.

Once they germinate and get a long enough tap root to plant, yes, you can put it right in the stones and make sure the drip is getting to that tap root but not the stem, or where the root crown will form.

I don't run a drip system, so I'm not 100% sure, but I'm thinking that a 24x7 drip would be fine.

 

[Jypsy Dog]

Easy Reading..... http://www.growweedeasy.com/basics ENJOY!

 

[FennarioMike]

It's official, I killed everything. Going to clean up, set up exhaust fan, and be completely ready to go this time. Got a huge supply of ph down. A ph pen, and a ppm pen, and a 400 cfm exhaust. (Should I buy a control panel to adjust the exhaust fan? The thing is crazy powerful.)
Also, should I buy a fan for fresh incoming air? Or will the negative pressure just suck in enough?

I have 10 new females coming. Should I germinate them in a napkin and then just drop them right on top of the rocks?

Now, since the growrocks don't retain much water. I don't really need a watering cycle?

Any other tips are greatly appreciated. I have roughly another 10 days to get prepared.

Thanks!

As far as dropping them on TOP of the rocks. Make sure you're planting the root into the wet area and fill in rocks around it so the root is buried a little, pointing down, and is getting moisture from the drip. Make sure the top is at the top go the rocks, or close to it.

 

[Richardz]

As far as dropping them on TOP of the rocks. Make sure you're planting the root into the wet area and fill in rocks around it so the root is buried a little, pointing down, and is getting moisture from the drip. Make sure the top is at the top go the rocks, or close to it.

Your advice/first hand knowledge is TOPS!
Grow weed easy has been my bible basically, but a click and read shows my exact mix up of mixing mediums. Which basically destroyed my entire first grow.

I'm pretty sure I could run my water 24/7, since recycled rocks don't obtain hardly any water. But with the soil medium mixed in, Destroyed my young pups.

I'm messing with my overall system currently since I'm in my downtime of waitnnf for seeds. ( bum status).

Thinking about setup of exhaust fan.

-I'm in 4x4.
-400 cfm.
-No direct connect from light to exhaust, due to cheap light setup. (Bad idea!!)

Looking for creative minds here, how to place things for best efficiency?

Thanks Mike, this direct hands on advice is not easily given. Thank you.