Bagseed grow almost 3 weeks into flower - How they look? Still okay to lollipop?

[Tom Henry Carter]

Hiya RIU community, hope they're growin' well.



Today I bring you this update on my bagseed ladies (what luck, I tell ya h'what).

Are the buds looking okay for 3 weeks? Tbh, these photos are from closer to 2 weeks than 3 (few days ago).
I've noticed they're starting to really take shape and beginning to put on their initial bulk -- I'm using GH Flora trio, but I haven't used any of GH's supplements (Liquid Koolbloom, Floralicious Plus, Rapidstart, etc --- although I have Fast Roots, which is similar to Rapidstart).
Is it too late to lollipop these two girls (we can call them smart pot and plastic pot)??
I'm a little irritated I didn't lolly them along with their tall cousin, she's looking a lot cleaner..

Also, can I start using Liquid Koolbloom and finish with Dry, even though I haven't been using it throughout the plant's whole flowering phase?


Lastly, the tiny plant pictured is my strongest clone - it's about 3.5 weeks old (took the cutting at the end of veg).
I have three others, but they were inferior branches. Gonna keep it in that solo cup for maybe another week or two. Tbh, got no room in flower tent
How's she looking, though?


Edit: The extreme claw you see is either due to a) windburn + slight nute burn, b) windburn, c) possible pH fluctuations, but that was mainly on not-pictured plant, so.., d) shitty shitty shitty super-sativa bagseed genetics that do not handle well the sudden 12/12 flip + 2x as much light overnight

 

[ALong14U]

Ok so. I'm going to be honest because I and everyone here wants you to grow better plants. I will also ask questions which are essential to any grow.
Good job on the pics. Good job on using bag seeds for growing the first time that way you don't waste money. Allwys include good pics for the best help.


1. You plants are over watered and have been for a long time. Also looks like possible nutrient lockout.

A. What soil are you using?
B. How often do you water?
C. When you water how much nutrients are you using. General Hydroponics is a good brand if used correct.
D. How much water comes out of the bottom of the pot when you water if in dirt or pro mix.?
E. What is the pH of the water of your run off?


2. Your plant is suffering from lack of light.
A. What type of light do you have.
B. How many watts is the light or lights your using?
C. How far away from the plant are said lights?
D. Can you move your light up and down to get as close to the plant as possible?

3. They also look they have weak stems from the stretching.

A. Do you have a hole open on the bottom of your tent open with a light proof seal to allow cold air in.
B. Do you have a hole on the top of your tent open to let hot air out obviously light proof.
C. Are there any fans assisting your airflow of your tent.
D. Do you have any fans blowing in them to circulate stale air and strengthen them for the long haul.?
E. Do you turn your plant so all top 18-24 inches is getting optimal light for there position.
F. What type of reflectors or is it an open ended bulb?


4. Is your tent light tight?
It looks like it may have been confused about wanting to flower or not.

A. When you got the tent did you stand inside with it all zipped up and all light off inside with the light in outside to make sure none entered the tent?
B. Did you put duct tape or some kind of light blocker over any part that zips that you don't use?
C. When you check for leaks make sure you sit in the tent for at least 30 mins. This gives your eyes time to adjust to the darkness and can see any leaks easily. Also after 30 mins put your hand 6 inches roughly from your face. If you can see it that is bad. If you can't that's perfect. As long as there is no lights from other sources getting in.

5. How long did you veg your plant for. I. E. How old is she?

A. From seed it will take longer. But even a rough guessing is ok.
B. Your plant needs to be all the same height. You want your buds to all get light not just the top one or a side branch.
C. There are plenty of techniques for this just search the site or reply to me.

6. What are your temperatures?

A. Keeping them constant and within 10 degrees no matter if the light is on or not, they will not stretch as much and will save that energy until it buds. So technically it won't uptake nutrients until it needs them or it gets locked out from to many.

7. What is your humidity?

5. Try and keep it between 40 and 60 percent during veg. And 35 to 50 during flower. This all depends on air movement and strain you have to fine tune it.

8. At least your giving it a shot and your not giving up. Keep growing and asking questions on this site or any other good one you like. Everything here is my opinion. I'm not telling you to do any of it. Every grow is deferent. Every growers style varies. Just try and figure out something that works well for you and don't give up.

You got this.! Nameste!

 

[Tom Henry Carter]

1. You plants are over watered and have been for a long time. Also looks like possible nutrient lockout.

A. What soil are you using? 50-50 ProMix, 4 parts ProMix: 1 part vermiculite
B. How often do you water? Have been watering about once every two-three day cycles (usually two).
I give the two bigger plants (in 20L smart pots) about 2.5L of water each, and the smaller plant in the plastic pot (7L) gets about 1-1.5L
C. When you water how much nutrients are you using. General Hydroponics is a good brand if used correct. I am following the GH Drain-To-Waste schedule.
D. How much water comes out of the bottom of the pot when you water if in dirt or pro mix.? It depends.. I water until I see enough run-off to cover the plastic plate the pot is in, but not enough for the bottom-end of the pot to be submerged more than a 1/4 inch.
E. What is the pH of the water of your run off? Haven't tested it in a while.. Was about mystified about usefulness of checking it, although maybe that info pertains more to checking pH of organic soil run-off..


2. Your plant is suffering from lack of light.
A. What type of light do you have. First 2-3 weeks of veg under 2 CFLs, then veg'd another month or so under 250W MH. Currently flowering under 600W HPS.
B. How many watts is the light or lights your using?
C. How far away from the plant are said lights? Because of their unknown/unstable/sativa-dominant genetics, and because of my application of different pruning techniques/no pruning, two plants are shorter and one is a giant tree... About 16" from the light at most, and I can't move the light any higher. Got 1.85m tall tent (6')
D. Can you move your light up and down to get as close to the plant as possible? To my knowledge, I shouldn't do that with such a powerful HPS.

3. They also look they have weak stems from the stretching.

A. Do you have a hole open on the bottom of your tent open with a light proof seal to allow cold air in. There is a duct that lets fresh air in. It's got a less than 90 degree bend, so to be honest I'm not sure if all the light is being blocked out. Also, there are pantyhose covering the ducts to filter out heavy pollution/bugs.
B. Do you have a hole on the top of your tent open to let hot air out obviously light proof. Yes, of course, equipped with an appropriate exhaust fan.
C. Are there any fans assisting your airflow of your tent. Yes, a 125mm exhaust and a 150mm (but less powerful in CFM) duct-fan that pushes air in. Also, I have one 20cm fan blowing air in a single direction above the canopy. I have to buy another one, because my 2nd one of those blew out.
D. Do you have any fans blowing in them to circulate stale air and strengthen them for the long haul.? I had a fan blowing directly on one of my plants, but it seemed to be doing harm to it (possible windburn in veg), compared to the other plants that didn't get the same direct wind.
E. Do you turn your plant so all top 18-24 inches is getting optimal light for there position. Well, I didn't move them much for pretty much all of veg, but then they had more room. I've found that now that they are stretching everywhere in flower that it's a lot more difficult to rotate them at all.
F. What type of reflectors or is it an open ended bulb? I use a 125mm cooltube reflector, with negative air pressure pulling air over the bulb.


4. Is your tent light tight?
It looks like it may have been confused about wanting to flower or not. My tent is a Secret Jardin DR90, and it came with a few tiny holes (very tiny), out of which light occasionally would shine, but I covered most/all of those up, but I also think that light shines out a lot easier than any light gets in, because the room the tent is in is never as illuminated and reflective as the inside of the tent itself.

A. When you got the tent did you stand inside with it all zipped up and all light off inside with the light in outside to make sure none entered the tent? No..
B. Did you put duct tape or some kind of light blocker over any part that zips that you don't use?
C. When you check for leaks make sure you sit in the tent for at least 30 mins. This gives your eyes time to adjust to the darkness and can see any leaks easily. Also after 30 mins put your hand 6 inches roughly from your face. If you can see it that is bad. If you can't that's perfect. As long as there is no lights from other sources getting in.

5. How long did you veg your plant for. I. E. How old is she? They are all 3-4 months old.. Closer to 4 months, but I don't know their exact ages.

A. From seed it will take longer. But even a rough guessing is ok. They are from seed, but like I said, bagseed and the weed they came from was of poor (but average, for my area) quality.
B. Your plant needs to be all the same height. You want your buds to all get light not just the top one or a side branch.
C. There are plenty of techniques for this just search the site or reply to me. I wish they were all the same height, but this being my first grow and all, I was, for the most part, reluctant about cutting too much off of them or anything...
Now I just think it's too late to do any more pruning.


6. What are your temperatures? Day-cycle temps are about 80 degrees Fahrenheit, and night-time is about 68-69 F.


A. Keeping them constant and within 10 degrees no matter if the light is on or not, they will not stretch as much and will save that energy until it buds. So technically it won't uptake nutrients until it needs them or it gets locked out from to many.
Well, friend, that just depends on whether we're talking degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit. Day and night temps are within 10 degrees of each other in terms of Celsius.

7. What is your humidity?
It's usually about 55% during day-cycle and as high as low-mid 70s (on a wet day) during the night-cycle. Have no idea what to do to bring humidity further down, as I unable to invest in more machinery at this point.

5. Try and keep it between 40 and 60 percent during veg. And 35 to 50 during flower. This all depends on air movement and strain you have to fine tune it. Perhaps when I get another 20cm circulation fan going again, I'll be able to keep humidity a little bit more under control.

8. At least your giving it a shot and your not giving up. Keep growing and asking questions on this site or any other good one you like. Everything here is my opinion. I'm not telling you to do any of it. Every grow is different. Every growers style varies. Just try and figure out something that works well for you and don't give up.
Thank you. I have found this to be one of the few constants about growing MJ: the very variations between grows and grow styles!
Save a few moments of stress throughout their lives, my plants have been healthful for the most part. If I get at least an ounce per plant (~3 Oz), I'll be content. I know that these "strains" I have are not grown for their quality, heavy bud production or anything. They are just straight up survivors of fucked up guerilla grows in the jungles of South America.
Next grow will be better. My good seeds are waiting to be properly grown.

 

[cannabisweedPotNerd]

Mistakes affects the buds like over water will affect them

 

[Tom Henry Carter]

Mistakes affects the buds like over water will affect them

To be quite honest, I don't think I'm overwatering, because when I pick up the pots (on feed/water day), they don't feel tremendously heavy or humid anywhere.
I go by the first-knucle rule - I know my plants got pretty good root balls b/c of smart pots, so I stick finger in the soil on the outer rim of root ball up to 1st knuckle or 1.5 knuckles, and if it's dry, they get water.
I have always done 1 feed-1 pH'd water
pH always between 6.2 and 6.5


After having just inspected my plants under a normal light, I think they may be magnesium deficient.
The leaves are quite pale and there is yellowing between the veins - not the same intensity everywhere, but a few leaves looked a little more like than classic "Mg deficient leaf".

Were it purely a Magnesium deficiency, how many teaspoons/mL of Epsom salts would be necessary per gal/liter for a first therapeutic step?


Also, as for taste, I think just the thoughtfulness/love/care/growing conditions and the drying/curing will be enough to make this extremely average weed into something better tasting than the average brick of "MJ" I usually have to deal with.. :/

While I have had great and tasty weed in my life, at this point, better than the average MJ in my market is okay with me, especially b/c I know my next grow will be even better.

 

[cannabisweedPotNerd]

How often do you give water?

 

[Tom Henry Carter]

How often do you give water?

I give them water about every two days.
So it goes
Day-cycle 1- Feed
Day-cycle 2- Observe
Day-cycle 3-Observe/pure water
Day-cycle 4- If I haven't watered up 'til now, [pure] water today. By this point, if I haven't already given them water, they get really thirsty.


Edit: ppm always falls in range of GH D-t-W Flora trio schedule, and pH is always between 6.2 and 6.5.
Will have to find some Epsom salts to remedy this apparent Mg-def.

 

[Tom Henry Carter]

How often do you give water?

Ok so. I'm going to be honest because I and everyone here wants you to grow better plants. I will also ask questions which are essential to any grow.
Good job on the pics. Good job on using bag seeds for growing the first time that way you don't waste money. Allwys include good pics for the best help.

You got this.! Nameste!

So, guys, how would I know whether this is Cal/Mag deficiency caused by salt build-up/nutrient lock-out or from a true deficiency?

 

[Buba Blend]

So, guys, how would I know whether this is Cal/Mag deficiency caused by salt build-up/nutrient lock-out or from a true deficiency?

I only skimmed this thread but my vote is for improper watering. The next time you think it is time to water check how wet the soil is at the bottom of the pot with a moisture probe. I don't use smart pots so I don't know how wet the lower soil stays compared to plastic pots. My bet is your soil is perfect in the upper half of the pot but to wet in the lower half, at least that is how the problem can occur in plastic pots.
You don't need to go crazy with nutes in soil.
Next time you grow a few plants try growing a couple with no run off next to the others and give them just water (If you use RO water add 1 tsp/gal organic cal/mag) to see how far they will develop without needing any nutes, you may be surprised at how big they can get with just water. Many growers have grown top shelf buds with nothing but water from beginning to end.
Good Luck!

 

[cheeseofchud]

his plants are underfed,not nute locked......
water only when the soil is at least 75% dried out,you dont want the soil always soaked,it needs to dry out a bit,but not to the point of plants drooping.....

get some jacks classic,its cheap and very good

 

[cheeseofchud]

I give them water about every two days.
So it goes
Day-cycle 1- Feed
Day-cycle 2- Observe
Day-cycle 3-Observe/pure water
Day-cycle 4- If I haven't watered up 'til now, [pure] water today. By this point, if I haven't already given them water, they get really thirsty.


Edit: ppm always falls in range of GH D-t-W Flora trio schedule, and pH is always between 6.2 and 6.5.
Will have to find some Epsom salts to remedy this apparent Mg-def.

you are paying way too much attention to your plants.....overthinking.............flush soil,feed at 6 ph and leave them till soil is dry at top of pot.....have air circulation and good air exchange

 

[Tom Henry Carter]

I only skimmed this thread but my vote is for improper watering. The next time you think it is time to water check how wet the soil is at the bottom of the pot with a moisture probe. I don't use smart pots so I don't know how wet the lower soil stays compared to plastic pots. My bet is your soil is perfect in the upper half of the pot but to wet in the lower half, at least that is how the problem can occur in plastic pots.
You don't need to go crazy with nutes in soil.
Next time you grow a few plants try growing a couple with no run off next to the others and give them just water (If you use RO water add 1 tsp/gal organic cal/mag) to see how far they will develop without needing any nutes, you may be surprised at how big they can get with just water. Many growers have grown top shelf buds with nothing but water from beginning to end.
Good Luck!

I see you said "soil", and when I read that I think "organic soil with life and mostly readily available nutrients" - I am using an inert mix (promix + vermiculite).

I'm not sure how I could probe the very bottom of my pot - it's rather tall to go in from the top, and going in from the side may damage the pot.
I'll feel around, though.

you are paying way too much attention to your plants.....overthinking.............flush soil,feed at 6 ph and leave them till soil is dry at top of pot.....have air circulation and good air exchange

Okay, so I'm guilty of paying too much attention and overthinking it, but as a first-timer, I can't help it. Until I know that I'm capably growing somewhat "afk", I feel the need to check up on them every day to see how things progress.

I'll flush them with my double-filter water (comes out at 0 ppm, so..) -- would I need to add epsom to that or just 0 ppm water all the way?
When would I consider myself done with flush, when run-off comes out at x ppm?

his plants are underfed,not nute locked......
water only when the soil is at least 75% dried out,you dont want the soil always soaked,it needs to dry out a bit,but not to the point of plants drooping.....

get some jacks classic,its cheap and very good

I only water when I notice some leaves starting to droop + top inch of promix is dry - the same leaves that perk up when water is okay.
Could they really be that underfed? I'm telling y'all this is some sativa-dominant, average AF bagseed from the Paraguayan jungles, so I'm not sure they're really big eaters - if anything, I've always been afraid that giving them full-strength GH nutes would be toxic to them.

What pH and ppm should my run-off be in a healthy flowering situation?


Edit: would a foliar feed of RO water + epsom at 0.5 tsp/gal at pH 6.0-6.2 be okay for them in this situation?
Will post most recent pics in a minute.

 

[Buba Blend]

I see you said "soil", and when I read that I think "organic soil with life and mostly readily available nutrients" - I am using an inert mix (promix + vermiculite).

I'm not sure how I could probe the very bottom of my pot - it's rather tall to go in from the top, and going in from the side may damage the pot.
I'll feel around, though.



Okay, so I'm guilty of paying too much attention and overthinking it, but as a first-timer, I can't help it. Until I know that I'm capably growing somewhat "afk", I feel the need to check up on them every day to see how things progress.

I'll flush them with my double-filter water (comes out at 0 ppm, so..) -- would I need to add epsom to that or just 0 ppm water all the way?
When would I consider myself done with flush, when run-off comes out at x ppm?




I only water when I notice some leaves starting to droop + top inch of promix is dry - the same leaves that perk up when water is okay.
Could they really be that underfed? I'm telling y'all this is some sativa-dominant, average AF bagseed from the Paraguayan jungles, so I'm not sure they're really big eaters - if anything, I've always been afraid that giving them full-strength GH nutes would be toxic to them.

What pH and ppm should my run-off be in a healthy flowering situation?


Edit: would a foliar feed of RO water + epsom at 0.5 tsp/gal at pH 6.0-6.2 be okay for them in this situation?
Will post most recent pics in a minute.

My bad I thought you were in soil.

 

[Tom Henry Carter]

Some of the most recent pics (from yesterday, if I'm not mistaken).

 

[cheeseofchud]

I see you said "soil", and when I read that I think "organic soil with life and mostly readily available nutrients" - I am using an inert mix (promix + vermiculite).

I'm not sure how I could probe the very bottom of my pot - it's rather tall to go in from the top, and going in from the side may damage the pot.
I'll feel around, though.



Okay, so I'm guilty of paying too much attention and overthinking it, but as a first-timer, I can't help it. Until I know that I'm capably growing somewhat "afk", I feel the need to check up on them every day to see how things progress.

I'll flush them with my double-filter water (comes out at 0 ppm, so..) -- would I need to add epsom to that or just 0 ppm water all the way?
When would I consider myself done with flush, when run-off comes out at x ppm?




I only water when I notice some leaves starting to droop + top inch of promix is dry - the same leaves that perk up when water is okay.
Could they really be that underfed? I'm telling y'all this is some sativa-dominant, average AF bagseed from the Paraguayan jungles, so I'm not sure they're really big eaters - if anything, I've always been afraid that giving them full-strength GH nutes would be toxic to them.

What pH and ppm should my run-off be in a healthy flowering situation?


Edit: would a foliar feed of RO water + epsom at 0.5 tsp/gal at pH 6.0-6.2 be okay for them in this situation?
Will post most recent pics in a minute.

flush with 3 times the amount of container....3 gallon pot,9 gallon flush

ph between 5.8-6.2

 

[ALong14U]

So, guys, how would I know whether this is Cal/Mag deficiency caused by salt build-up/nutrient lock-out or from a true deficiency?

Im pretty sure calcium show up as a purple stem? And I think they 2 have to work together. Mg is yellowing in the veins of the leaves I think. You should double check those to.
Anytime I think things are off. My pH nutes or have a def. I flush the plant with 2x pot volume of water let drain until not really dripping anymore. Then I personally water with tap water and seaweed extract. My ppm out he tap is 230. I add seaweed to get to 450. Water freshly flushed plant. Let dry very well then water with whatever I'm using to correct the deficiency.

Now this is what I do. I don't know if it will work for you. I have about 50%
Perlite so my soil dries very fast and my drainage is crazy. But if you can pinpoint the deficiency here are plenty of threads here to help.

Happy growing.

 

[ALong14U]

flush with 3 times the amount of container....3 gallon pot,9 gallon flush

ph between 5.8-6.2

I checked my runoff from watering about 16 plants yesterday.

My pH was at 6.01. My ppm was at about 750. I water to 20 or 30 percent run off I'm daily fairly liberal with my water.
The water going in was 6.5 pH and 1000 ppm. I'm I. Week 3 of flower.

Next watering they will get no nutes. Usually my runoff is around 5.9 to 6.1ph and 400 ppms with my water only run off.

Imho any ppms over 1250 coming out of your run off is to me. Some people feed that heavy. They know he strain. Been growing it forever.
But that's high for what I do. Once my ppm comes out near 1000 they get 250 ppm tap water until it's back down to around 400 then I start feeding again. And repeat.

I also don't flush it's a myth. I feed until harvest. Last watering I flush with 5x pot volume of water. Let plants drink everything until they are fucked looking lol then I chop. Now I only do this last flush the to wash the dirt because I recycle it.

Hope this helps.

 

[cheeseofchud]

flushing to correct feeding issues is no myth

 

[Tom Henry Carter]

flush with 3 times the amount of container....3 gallon pot,9 gallon flush

ph between 5.8-6.2

Can the flush water be ~ 80 ppm? That is what comes out of my filtered tap.
I also have access to double filter (almost RO) water that reads 0 ppm and 7.3 pH with my instruments, but it would take me probably a day or more to get 60L of RO water for one 20L pot, not to mention it would certainly wear down the filter components (for which I do have replacements, but using that filter is a hassle no matter how you look at it).

Im pretty sure calcium show up as a purple stem? And I think they 2 have to work together. Mg is yellowing in the veins of the leaves I think. You should double check those to.
Anytime I think things are off. My pH nutes or have a def. I flush the plant with 2x pot volume of water let drain until not really dripping anymore. Then I personally water with tap water and seaweed extract. My ppm out he tap is 230. I add seaweed to get to 450. Water freshly flushed plant. Let dry very well then water with whatever I'm using to correct the deficiency.

Now this is what I do. I don't know if it will work for you. I have about 50%
Perlite so my soil dries very fast and my drainage is crazy. But if you can pinpoint the deficiency here are plenty of threads here to help.

Happy growing.

Edit: yeah, I have quite a bit of perlite in my soil, too, plus the vermiculite to make it airy. So, I think I have pretty decent drainage, but I never water with 30% run-off, and I'm not sure about 20%. I have to water them today, probably. Hopefully, I will get to and I will be able to take the appropriate measurements.

Shit, they got the purple stem going... On the main stalk and on some/most fan leaves...
Yeah, go look at the last pictures I posted: examine the bushier looking pictures carefully (check out main stalk and fans especially), they are rocking that purple stripe/wholly purple.

 

[cheeseofchud]

Im pretty sure calcium show up as a purple stem? And I think they 2 have to work together. Mg is yellowing in the veins of the leaves I think. You should double check those to.
Anytime I think things are off. My pH nutes or have a def. I flush the plant with 2x pot volume of water let drain until not really dripping anymore. Then I personally water with tap water and seaweed extract. My ppm out he tap is 230. I add seaweed to get to 450. Water freshly flushed plant. Let dry very well then water with whatever I'm using to correct the deficiency.

Now this is what I do. I don't know if it will work for you. I have about 50%
Perlite so my soil dries very fast and my drainage is crazy. But if you can pinpoint the deficiency here are plenty of threads here to help.

Happy growing.

dont think.....know,and you are complicating things based on guessing,thats not good advise