Calling all DIY LED Gurus: New Challenge(?)

[Hybridway]

Lookin nice and clean! Your girls will be bathed in light!

Oh yeah, I love this system. Averaging 1# per 300w.
Here's my current thread using them.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/sun-cloak-multi-strain.929661/page-12
Here's my last thread using them in a trail run. https://www.rollitup.org/t/my-amare-hydroponics-hut-suncloak-grow.916789/page-23#post-13025470
This system deffenitly maximizes the plant.
You'll do well going vert w/ led strips.
Pls do keep us posted n good luck.

 

[joecanna17]

Oh yeah, I love this system. Averaging 1# per 300w.
Here's my current thread using them.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/sun-cloak-multi-strain.929661/page-12
Here's my last thread using them in a trail run. https://www.rollitup.org/t/my-amare-hydroponics-hut-suncloak-grow.916789/page-23#post-13025470
This system deffenitly maximizes the plant.
You'll do well going vert w/ led strips.
Pls do keep us posted n good luck.

I read your threads, and they're looking awesome! I'm glad to see you getting such good coverage, even with diode strips a couple inches apart. That tells me that even if I can't wrap flex strips around the duct, I should be OK if I had to use vertical rigid strips every inch apart or so, in a cylindrical configuration....hopefully. I'll be watching your progress, rooting for you as well! I'm shooting for plants around the same size, and wanna see how they fill out for ya.

I'll definitely keep the thread updated, and it will be getting more exciting soon, if all goes to plan. I'd like to order parts this week sometime...As soon as I figure out now is how to power this vert fixture....and another one half as powerful for veg...and another 1x1m horizontal flower fixture...a 2'x2' horizontal veg light, and a couple of 2'x2's for clones...LOL

I should be fine powering each of the veg lights with their own drivers, but I'm still not sure as far as the flowering fixtures. Theoretically, I should be able to power 25m of strips with 1 HLG-600H, but they're not recommended to be wired together more than 5m at a time. Does this mean I would need 5 different power supplies, or is there a way to still wire (5) 5m strips to one driver?

 

[joecanna17]

So, I'm in talks with the supplier, but they're on holiday this week. We've left off discussing diode colors, and powering the designs for the lights I'm trying to get together.
I'll probably end up going with 3500k all around, for convenience, unless it isn't any more complicated for the options they seem to offer.
It sounds like they offer not only 3500k/3000k alternating on the strip, but we could customize down to the ratios of different White, UV, and IR diodes that we need, by the nanometer. That, of course, seems to add a whole other level of complexity, but maybe someone here has an easy ratio formula already? (?)3500k?)?nmIR?)?nmUV
Anyway, here's the diagram I sent to the supplier with possible fixture designs, and possible drivers to power them. Unfortunately, I think our language barrier may be too much for the issue of how to correctly power each one, so I wonder if you guys could help pick out the potential problems you might see with these configurations? And by all means, feel free to try them out yourselves if you really like them. (The vertical tubes, at least. @Oneshark was the one kind enough to lend us all the horizontal designs) My main bump in the road at the moment is the power issue. For the fixtures over with over 5 meters of strips, how would one go about wiring to 1 driver per fixture?

**The patients may both be going vertical now, so I may just be building the vertical flower and veg lights, and the 100w seedling/clone light. Any thoughts on the horizontal are still welcome though.

 

[3GT]

So, I'm in talks with the supplier, but they're on holiday this week. We've left off discussing diode colors, and powering the designs for the lights I'm trying to get together.
I'll probably end up going with 3500k all around, for convenience, unless it isn't any more complicated for the options they seem to offer.
It sounds like they offer not only 3500k/3000k alternating on the strip, but we could customize down to the ratios of different White, UV, and IR diodes that we need, by the nanometer. That, of course, seems to add a whole other level of complexity, but maybe someone here has an easy ratio formula already? (?)3500k?)?nmIR?)?nmUV
Anyway, here's the diagram I sent to the supplier with possible fixture designs, and possible drivers to power them. Unfortunately, I think our language barrier may be too much for the issue of how to correctly power each one, so I wonder if you guys could help pick out the potential problems you might see with these configurations? And by all means, feel free to try them out yourselves if you really like them. (The vertical tubes, at least. @Oneshark was the one kind enough to lend us all the horizontal designs) My main bump in the road at the moment is the power issue. For the fixtures over with over 5 meters of strips, how would one go about wiring to 1 driver per fixture?

**The patients may both be going vertical now, so I may just be building the vertical flower and veg lights, and the 100w seedling/clone light. Any thoughts on the horizontal are still welcome though.

Have you thought about running those horizontal fixtures vertically? Make them say 4x6 in a tent with lots (7'+) of height and you could fit more than 1.

 

[joecanna17]

Have you thought about running those horizontal fixtures vertically? Make them say 4x6 in a tent with lots (7'+) of height and you could fit more than 1.

You could do that, like some are doing with Quantum arrays....but it would be more expensive and complicated, as you would be making 1 fixture to cover each of the 4 walls...Also, they would be at least 50% larger per panel (@4'x6' vs 40"x40"), and kind of defeat the purpose of a traditional vert style setup, trying to maximize the light from a cylindrical bulb. While it would certainly give more light, closer to the plants, it would also probably end up about 6x more expensive.

I'm shooting for a system that is overall as affordable, efficient and productive as possible, and the lighting is just one of the (most important) components... but when I have the system all together, and working satisfactory, I'll be sure to share all the details with whoever is interested. I'd like to see anyone who wants, to be able to provide for themselves in the best way possible. You guys will have a front row seat though, and we'll all learn together over the next few months

 

[Randomblame]

Be glad the seller is still on vacation!
You could reach this 46.000lm with only 20 2ft. Samsung H-Series strips, driven at 500mA each, 180lm/w in 3500k, ~250w, almost half power draw for the same amount of light.
You need at least CC strips like Blux EB-Series, Samsung H+F Series, TMC(estonian double row strips) to create an efficient lamp.
And they have solderfree connectors, BTW!

These flex strips uses a lot of resistors which makes them more inefficient as hard strips. (Tiny little chips in between the led's)

 

[joecanna17]

Be glad the seller is still on vacation!
You could reach this 46.000lm with only 20 2ft. Samsung H-Series strips, driven at 500mA each, 180lm/w in 3500k, ~250w, almost half power draw for the same amount of light.
You need at least CC strips like Blux EB-Series, Samsung H+F Series, TMC(estonian double row strips) to create an efficient lamp.
And they have solderfree connectors, BTW!

These flex strips uses a lot of resistors which makes them more inefficient as hard strips. (Tiny little chips in between the led's)

OK, you've got my attention. So, how would I power and wire that setup? I'm picturing the strips hanging vertically, in a 6" diameter cylinder, still covering the 24"x6" duct idea I was planning on. Using 20 rigid strips, they should be an inch or less apart, if I'm thinking correctly.

I didn't see these model strips on Alibaba, and their price at Digikey seems quite a bit more expensive than going with the flexible strips on Alibaba. Could you sway me toward these rigids for other reasons? Power / wiring configuration maybe? The fact that it would only be 250w seems even weaker than my 460w, especially for 4, 4x4 walls...but, if the right light intensity is there, that's what matters, right?

 

[Randomblame]

OK, you've got my attention. So, how would I power and wire that setup? I'm picturing the strips hanging vertically, in a 6" diameter cylinder, still covering the 24"x6" duct idea I was planning on. Using 20 rigid strips, they should be an inch or less apart, if I'm thinking correctly.

I didn't see these model strips on Alibaba, and their price at Digikey seems quite a bit more expensive than going with the flexible strips on Alibaba. Could you sway me toward these rigids for other reasons? Power / wiring configuration maybe? The fact that it would only be 250w seems even weaker than my 460w, especially for 4, 4x4 walls...but, if the right light intensity is there, that's what matters, right?

The higher upfront costs will be paid off by themselves on your electricity bill!
In fact, you will need less than a year and from then on you will only make a profit...

There are also 5630 hardstrips on Alibaba, most likely even from the same seller. Find one that produces hardstrips with 561c and make sure that it's CC strips. Maybe ask @OLD MOTHER SATIVA for help, he does the same..

And for wiring, you could create a series parallel circuit, 5 strips in series (~ 112V) and this 4 times in parallel to a HLG-240H-C2100(525mA each string of strips).
You could also use 30 strips and hang 6 parallel 5pcs-strings on an HLG-320H-C2800B (467mA per strip), slightly more eff., dimmable to 0 and ~ 315w / 56500lm.(with H-Series)
Original H-Series comes down ot 10$/pcs if you take 25+ and even cheaper at 50+ strips.
Bridgelux EB Series is ~160lm@500mA, only 7,15$ if you take 50+ but 20lm/w less output.
You will probably not get any original strips on Alibaba, but you will find a manufacturer who will make these strips for you. In fact, there are some that offer such strips with different LED's, also with 561c.
However, they can tell you much if the day is long, but in fact you can not distinguish Epistar5630 from Samsung561c when they are already installed. So it is mainly a matter of trust for which stripes you decide, fake or originals.

BTW,
The 30 original strips/315w setup would probably produce so much more buds thats it pays for themself with only a single grow.. so I would take the original ones and double the up-front costs, it pays off in any case.

 

[joecanna17]

BTW,
The 30 original strips/315w setup would probably produce so much more buds thats it pays for themself with only a single grow.. so I would take the original ones and double the up-front costs, it pays off in any case.

I'm trying to sufficiently light 4, (up to)4x4 walls of a tent, so 30 is sounding better, unless you think 20 would be alright 12-18" away?

There are also 5630 hardstrips on Alibaba, most likely even from the same seller. Find one that produces hardstrips with 561c and make sure that it's CC strips. Maybe ask @OLD MOTHER SATIVA for help, he does the same..

The flexible strips are using the LM561c diodes as well...are the rigid strips better for another reason? The lack of resistors or something else?

And for wiring, you could create a series parallel circuit, 5 strips in series (~ 112V) and this 4 times in parallel to a HLG-240H-C2100(525mA each string of strips).
You could also use 30 strips and hang 6 parallel 5pcs-strings on an HLG-320H-C2800B (467mA per strip), slightly more eff., dimmable to 0 and ~ 315w / 56500lm.(with H-Series)
Original H-Series comes down ot 10$/pcs if you take 25+ and even cheaper at 50+ strips.
Bridgelux EB Series is ~160lm@500mA, only 7,15$ if you take 50+ but 20lm/w less output.
You will probably not get any original strips on Alibaba, but you will find a manufacturer who will make these strips for you. In fact, there are some that offer such strips with different LED's, also with 561c.
However, they can tell you much if the day is long, but in fact you can not distinguish Epistar5630 from Samsung561c when they are already installed. So it is mainly a matter of trust for which stripes you decide, fake or originals.

Awesome, thank you! You're definitely helping the wiring part make more sense.

 

[Randomblame]

Yepp, the resistores are needed to drive the flex strips with constant voltage. A 12v strip needs a resistor each 3 led's to avoid they get to much voltage and burn out(remember, 3 led's in series needs only 8,5-9v). So each 3 LED's a part of the energy get's lost. Same goes for 24v strips! Constant current strips do not need resistors so no wasted energy here.

I'm not sure how much difference is between this two ways to drive led's but I could imagine it is >20%.

It's not an issue if you want an indirect 20w light for your living room but if it comes to hundreds of watts it matters a lot.
And the lost energy is converted into heat which is another reason to not use these flex strips.
If I were you, I would definately go with the 30 H- or F-Series strips/HLG-320 setup. I prefer the F-Series but they are unfortunately not available currently. Digikey says they are overdue but they can not say when they get available...

 

[MrTwist1]

Go for the hard strips as @Randomblame suggests - super easy to power/wire/cool and so versatile. Samsung Influx series can sometimes be found for bargain prices also. cheers

 

[joecanna17]

Thanks @Randomblame for all the help across the LED threads- I know I'm not the only grateful DIY'er!

So after going back to the drawing board, I've revised the design ideas. I think I've settled on the model and number of rigid strips to use for each fixture, but now I need some guidance on which drivers, and the best way to wire them, if possible. Next will be ordering the parts, which will likely be from Arrow, and hopefully before the weekend. I wanna get these things lit!

The flowering fixtures @~315w seem a little low wattage for (4) 4x4' walls of foliage. If you think they'll send enough light to the leaves, that would be awesome...but, what if the 315w isn't sending enough light? Could I make a fixture capable of say, 600w, and dim down to 400w or so? This new design based on your last recommendation has 30 of the 560mm (22") Samsung H series rigid strips around a 10" diameter cylinder, with the diodes approximately 10-16" from the foliage, and I just want to make sure there is enough intensity @~315w, or be able to push higher, if I need to. What do you think so far?

And again, thanks so much for the help!

 

[Randomblame]

Thanks @Randomblame for all the help across the LED threads- I know I'm not the only grateful DIY'er!

So after going back to the drawing board, I've revised the design ideas. I think I've settled on the model and number of rigid strips to use for each fixture, but now I need some guidance on which drivers, and the best way to wire them, if possible. Next will be ordering the parts, which will likely be from Arrow, and hopefully before the weekend. I wanna get these things lit!

The flowering fixtures @~315w seem a little low wattage for (4) 4x4' walls of foliage. If you think they'll send enough light to the leaves, that would be awesome...but, what if the 315w isn't sending enough light? Could I make a fixture capable of say, 600w, and dim down to 400w or so? This new design based on your last recommendation has 30 of the 560mm (22") Samsung H series rigid strips around a 10" diameter cylinder, with the diodes approximately 10-16" from the foliage, and I just want to make sure there is enough intensity @~315w, or be able to push higher, if I need to. What do you think so far?

And again, thanks so much for the help!

If you like to have more available power just in case you need more, you cloud go with 30 strips and a HLG-480H-C3500B.
Wire each 6 strips in series for a vf of ~135v and connect all 5 strings in parallel to the driver. Each string will get ~700mA, ~473w net., ~500w total.

It's pretty simple! Locate a driver which you want to use and look at dc voltage and current output. Then connect so many strips in series until the required vf is slightly below the driver output. Now hang several of these strings in parallel to the driver so that the current is divided by all the strings!

 

[joecanna17]

If you like to have more available power just in case you need more, you cloud go with 30 strips and a HLG-480H-C3500B.
Wire each 6 strips in series for a vf of ~135v and connect all 5 strings in parallel to the driver. Each string will get ~700mA, ~473w net., ~500w total.

It's pretty simple! Locate a driver which you want to use and look at dc voltage and current output. Then connect so many strips in series until the required vf is slightly below the driver output. Now hang several of these strings in parallel to the driver so that the current is divided by all the strings!

Ah, OK, that sounds much better! Of course, I can't find any of those 480 drivers in stock anywhere, and I'm still working on figuring out the right drivers for the other two lights, so no ordering parts yet....but thanks so much for the help!

 

[joecanna17]

Alright, I give up.

I just can't wrap my head around the math involved for picking drivers for the lights I wanted to build, and the whole project is already a month behind schedule.

Those of you who understand this shit have my utmost respect, because it's still mind boggling to me, and just about the most frustrating thing I've been through in recent memory.

Anyway, thanks again to anyone who took the time to try and help.

End thread

 

[Randomblame]

Don't give up, my friend!!!
This thread is really useful to understand how LED's work and how to power them.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-leds-how-to-power-them.801554/unread

Watching this video explains also a hell lot fo things and most things are similar to your constant current strip setup.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-with-quantum-boards.927159/page-225#post-13596778

BTW,
Talk to jerry from kingbrite, he listed also Meanwell HLG-480H in his last newsletter emails.
You can use the email adress below.

• Ms Vicky: [email protected]
• Ms ViVi: [email protected]

 

[joecanna17]

Don't give up, my friend!!!
This thread is really useful to understand how LED's work and how to power them.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-leds-how-to-power-them.801554/unread

Watching this video explains also a hell lot fo things and most things are similar to your constant current strip setup.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-with-quantum-boards.927159/page-225#post-13596778

BTW,
Talk to jerry from kingbrite, he listed also Meanwell HLG-480H in his last newsletter emails.
You can use the email adress below.

• Ms Vicky: [email protected]
• Ms ViVi: [email protected]

Thanks a lot, @Randomblame I didn't end up giving up after all

I've been watching @Growmau5 videos, but hadn't seen the one you linked yet by HLG. I just started this one from, and already it seems to answer some of the questions I had, so I'll probably understand more after watching, so thanks for the link!

I have gotten through the first and last few pages of the LED powering thread, but I sure didn't make it through all 172 pgs!

All the threads and videos just weren't helping it click for me, and what I really needed was a face-to-face with someone more knowledgeable with electrical math than I am....So, finally just yesterday I got together with an electrical engineering student friend of mine, and I think (HOPE) we got it figured out!

Here's what we decided on:

SI-B8U11156HUS Samsung H Series 22" @3500k Strips for all fixtures

Seedling / Clone Light:
6 Strips wired to HLG-120H-C700A

Vertical Veg Light:
12 Strips, wired into 3 sets of 4 strips to HLG-240H-C2100A

Vert Flower Light:
30 Strips, Wired into 5 sets of 6 strips to HLG-480H-C3500A

As far as where they're series and parallel, I don't exactly remember from last night, but said friend will likely be along for the build as well. We worked the numbers based off running the strips at 700mA, and the possible concern was whether we would be running the drivers too hard @700mA. What do you think?

Thanks for the Kingbrite tip- I'll definitely check them out again. Since this morning, I'm back in communication with the supplier I first talked to because I was having trouble finding the 480 driver, and figured now that I have model numbers narrowed down, I'd at least check with them, and see what they said. He says he can supply the drivers, but wasn't sure about the particular strip yet. Personally, I'd rather get all parts from one source, as close to the U.S. as possible, quick as possible, cheap as possible, and authentic as possible lol

Thanks for checking in again! I'm looking forward to finally getting things moving on my end again too...

 

[Ryante55]

Thanks a lot, @Randomblame I didn't end up giving up after all

I've been watching @Growmau5 videos, but hadn't seen the one you linked yet by HLG. I just started this one from, and already it seems to answer some of the questions I had, so I'll probably understand more after watching, so thanks for the link!

I have gotten through the first and last few pages of the LED powering thread, but I sure didn't make it through all 172 pgs!

All the threads and videos just weren't helping it click for me, and what I really needed was a face-to-face with someone more knowledgeable with electrical math than I am....So, finally just yesterday I got together with an electrical engineering student friend of mine, and I think (HOPE) we got it figured out!

Here's what we decided on:

SI-B8U11156HUS Samsung H Series 22" @3500k Strips for all fixtures

Seedling / Clone Light:
6 Strips wired to HLG-120H-C700A

Vertical Veg Light:
12 Strips, wired into 3 sets of 4 strips to HLG-240H-C2100A

Vert Flower Light:
30 Strips, Wired into 5 sets of 6 strips to HLG-480H-C3500A

As far as where they're series and parallel, I don't exactly remember from last night, but said friend will likely be along for the build as well. We worked the numbers based off running the strips at 700mA, and the possible concern was whether we would be running the drivers too hard @700mA. What do you think?

Thanks for the Kingbrite tip- I'll definitely check them out again. Since this morning, I'm back in communication with the supplier I first talked to because I was having trouble finding the 480 driver, and figured now that I have model numbers narrowed down, I'd at least check with them, and see what they said. He says he can supply the drivers, but wasn't sure about the particular strip yet. Personally, I'd rather get all parts from one source, as close to the U.S. as possible, quick as possible, cheap as possible, and authentic as possible lol

Thanks for checking in again! I'm looking forward to finally getting things moving on my end again too...

So your only using like 4-500 watts for 4 walls in a 4x4? That's sounds pretty low to me I would at least double that

 

[Ryante55]

Thanks a lot, @Randomblame I didn't end up giving up after all

I've been watching @Growmau5 videos, but hadn't seen the one you linked yet by HLG. I just started this one from, and already it seems to answer some of the questions I had, so I'll probably understand more after watching, so thanks for the link!

I have gotten through the first and last few pages of the LED powering thread, but I sure didn't make it through all 172 pgs!

All the threads and videos just weren't helping it click for me, and what I really needed was a face-to-face with someone more knowledgeable with electrical math than I am....So, finally just yesterday I got together with an electrical engineering student friend of mine, and I think (HOPE) we got it figured out!

Here's what we decided on:

SI-B8U11156HUS Samsung H Series 22" @3500k Strips for all fixtures

Seedling / Clone Light:
6 Strips wired to HLG-120H-C700A

Vertical Veg Light:
12 Strips, wired into 3 sets of 4 strips to HLG-240H-C2100A

Vert Flower Light:
30 Strips, Wired into 5 sets of 6 strips to HLG-480H-C3500A

As far as where they're series and parallel, I don't exactly remember from last night, but said friend will likely be along for the build as well. We worked the numbers based off running the strips at 700mA, and the possible concern was whether we would be running the drivers too hard @700mA. What do you think?

Thanks for the Kingbrite tip- I'll definitely check them out again. Since this morning, I'm back in communication with the supplier I first talked to because I was having trouble finding the 480 driver, and figured now that I have model numbers narrowed down, I'd at least check with them, and see what they said. He says he can supply the drivers, but wasn't sure about the particular strip yet. Personally, I'd rather get all parts from one source, as close to the U.S. as possible, quick as possible, cheap as possible, and authentic as possible lol

Thanks for checking in again! I'm looking forward to finally getting things moving on my end again too...

Try cutter.com they have some strips

 

[nogod_]

They will be run in series and parallel.

The total voltage of the hlg-480h-c2100a is 117v. That means the most strips you can hook up in series (end to end) is 4, because the cumulative voltage of 4 is still under the 117v limit (4x24v = 96v) if you were to try and hook up 5 in series you would go over the max voltage of the driver (5x24v = 120v, when your max is 117v)

If you were to stop there and hook up that one 4-strip string to the driver you would be pushing 2100ma thru your 4 series-wired strips.

Since you want to run 3 strings of series-wired strips at 700ma instead of 1 string at 2100ma you will wire all the + leads together and all the - leads together of your 3 strings. This will give you a parallel circuit which means you divide the total output current of the driver by 3 and each string will get 700ma instead of 2100ma.

If you were to wire 4 strings of 4 series-wired strips in parallel (16 total strips) you would divide 2100ma by 4 and each string would only receive 525ma. 5 strings (20strips) => 420ma, 6 strings (24 strips) => 350ma so on and so forth.

Hope that helps and sorry if it doesnt!

Thanks a lot, @Randomblame I didn't end up giving up after all

I've been watching @Growmau5 videos, but hadn't seen the one you linked yet by HLG. I just started this one from, and already it seems to answer some of the questions I had, so I'll probably understand more after watching, so thanks for the link!

I have gotten through the first and last few pages of the LED powering thread, but I sure didn't make it through all 172 pgs!

All the threads and videos just weren't helping it click for me, and what I really needed was a face-to-face with someone more knowledgeable with electrical math than I am....So, finally just yesterday I got together with an electrical engineering student friend of mine, and I think (HOPE) we got it figured out!

Here's what we decided on:

SI-B8U11156HUS Samsung H Series 22" @3500k Strips for all fixtures

Seedling / Clone Light:
6 Strips wired to HLG-120H-C700A

Vertical Veg Light:
12 Strips, wired into 3 sets of 4 strips to HLG-240H-C2100A

Vert Flower Light:
30 Strips, Wired into 5 sets of 6 strips to HLG-480H-C3500A

As far as where they're series and parallel, I don't exactly remember from last night, but said friend will likely be along for the build as well. We worked the numbers based off running the strips at 700mA, and the possible concern was whether we would be running the drivers too hard @700mA. What do you think?

Thanks for the Kingbrite tip- I'll definitely check them out again. Since this morning, I'm back in communication with the supplier I first talked to because I was having trouble finding the 480 driver, and figured now that I have model numbers narrowed down, I'd at least check with them, and see what they said. He says he can supply the drivers, but wasn't sure about the particular strip yet. Personally, I'd rather get all parts from one source, as close to the U.S. as possible, quick as possible, cheap as possible, and authentic as possible lol

Thanks for checking in again! I'm looking forward to finally getting things moving on my end again too...