Calli's Conundrums

[DonBrennon]

Awesome!!!

update @ Conundrum #4
Composting Leaves!

Yes! It finally happened, I started my thermal compost yesterday!

My heart sunk a bit at first, when I saw that someone was trying to be my hero, and had driven the 3 basketsful of grass clippings I'd asked for over from another yard... no idea which yard exactly, so the quality was more questionable, apart from containing trash (yuck) quite a bit of dry leaves in the mix too.
View attachment 3952769

But then I decided to take it as it was, enjoy being princessed like that, make do with the quality the universe delivered, and set about estimating the C:N ratios of my materials.

The clippings, second cut, probably still counting as hi N, but with those dry leaves in? Aand having sat in a pile over night, taking the temps to 60°C and starting to gas off (losing heating power?)...
Then the leaves, half of which, just leaves, the other half being the pile that had collapsed last fall, starting to decompose for real, with a gigantic ant colony in it....

View attachment 3952771

So in a wild guesstimate, and pushed to haste by the rising temps of the clippings, I decided to add them pretty much half-half, the green part being not-so-narrow C:N wise, and the browns not-so-wide.
So after establishing the base, starting with browns, I layered them by the wheelbarrowful, and watered them with a genius simple but effective compost pile shower I built for that purpose.
View attachment 3952772

About two thirds of the way up, I remembered I could innoculate the pile with some good compost, so I added a layer with 10L of that, regretting not having thought of it earlier, as it's the sensible thing to do when you're not sure of the microbial presence in your starting materials

View attachment 3952774

After the pile was finished - and the amount was perfect to use up allll the leaves I had! - temperatures throughout were at 20°C.
View attachment 3952777
View attachment 3952775

By evening, temps had begun rising, and it seemed the pile was warming from top to bottom.

22 hours later, temps in the top third of the pile were up to 43°C, whilst the bottom middle was still at 29°C.
But this evening, so at ~31hrs, the top third was at 50°C whilst the bottom was at 38°C. But then I got measuring different depths, and saw that in fact, the pile is heating up like this:

View attachment 3952780

Interesting!!!

I was very insecure as to whether I have enough power in the pile to get it to temperature over the whole composting time, and had the garden guy bring me a basket of clipping in reserve, that I could mix in if it didn't heat up, but at this rate, I do think I'll be at 55°C tomorrow morn
Also, the shower worked so well, I got the feeling I was overdoing it on the moisture, but the squeeze test oozed and yielded a few drops, just like it should at 50%.
Wohoo!

Still scary! Since it'll have to get up to those temps again at least 2x so the whole pile gets done... or if it gets too dry and I have to turn for water, and I have to turn more often!?!
Trying not to fret and cross those bridges if I get to them
Cheers!

That's gonna be some damn good compost..................what's your opinion on adding rock dust or biochar to your compost pile? Have you read or seen anything 'Elaine's' said on the subject? I watched a vid on the 'tube' about a guy who grew organically with nothing but compost mulch, but swore by using rock dust as an ingredient in his compost and his results were impressive to say the least.

 

[calliandra]

Awesome!!!


That's gonna be some damn good compost..................what's your opinion on adding rock dust or biochar to your compost pile? Have you read or seen anything 'Elaine's' said on the subject? I watched a vid on the 'tube' about a guy who grew organically with nothing but compost mulch, but swore by using rock dust as an ingredient in his compost and his results were impressive to say the least.

haha, I hope so too!

As for the rock dust,
I've watched and listened to a few pieces of Inghams on building the pile, and there was never any rock dust involved.
And I don't recall Ingham having talked about it specifically, but I sure will listen up if she does & let you know!

But my humble opinion, based on how I understand soil processes so far:

I was first introduced to rock dust when making the acquaintance with kitchen scraps composting. The rock dust is sprinkled onto freshly added scraps, to "help prevent odour development". So in that kind of context, I'd say something is going on pH/acidity wise, helping steer decomposition in the right direction.
And also in sheet composting, rock dust is sprinkled between layers. Rethinking that microbially, it remains in the domain of the possible, but subject to revision
...maybe just adding an adequate amount of browns to any hi N scraps coming outside, or mixing those fresh grass clippings in the sheet mulch with bownish mulch that's already there has the same effect...

Because, what IS rock dust actually? Finely ground bedrock?
So if I feel I want some "grit" in my pile, and that the soil that got raked up with the leaves, or got sliced off by the mowerblade because there was a bump in the lawn isn't enough, I could just take a handful of dirt from where I am standing and throw that in.
All the nutrients anyone will ever need are in the sand silt and clay that is the basis of all our soils, worldwide.
And a grain of sand... what did she just say in one of the lessons I just watched??? the nutrients in one grain of sand are enough for something in the acres range
So I'd think the soil just stuck on the organic matter we're composting is more than enough to also provide goodies for any saprophytic microbes that should be in that diverse and able community we're trying to grow...
Hm!
Something tells me we don't even know yet what the "optimal" diversity actually looks like, in terms of preferred foods and such. We do know there are switchers, fungi that can be mycorrhizal but also can survive on their own, but what was that with the saprophytes?
Do they tap into mineral as well as organic matter, or are there switchers there too?
I'd need to go back to Teaming with Fungi to check on that, I remember adding a few question marks into the margins there haha

What's your take on the matter??
Cheers!

 

[iHearAll]

awesome large pile!!! that is some commitment that can only reward! MUCH RESPECT

 

[calliandra]

awesome large pile!!! that is some commitment that can only reward! MUCH RESPECT

Ahh thank you!
And yes, there is hope!

This morning, the pile's hotspot was at 65°C, with a larger area at 55°C, the bottom still at 39-43°C.
I'm going to let that count, so it's three days starting then til turn #1 - with some luck!

I discovered it's tricky to try and assess moisture when the temps are ideal - dam hot to put one'S hand in lol
What I managed to snatch out was a tad on the dry side, almost going on 30%, so I watered the pile on the hot side from the top a bit.



The hottest action is still happening in the top half of the pile, on the side it's leaning towards.

Ahhhh and mycelium forming on the outside of that hot side too


-- seeing that, somehow, really turns me on, I mean, like really LOL

 

[DonBrennon]

haha, I hope so too!

As for the rock dust,
I've watched and listened to a few pieces of Inghams on building the pile, and there was never any rock dust involved.
And I don't recall Ingham having talked about it specifically, but I sure will listen up if she does & let you know!

But my humble opinion, based on how I understand soil processes so far:

I was first introduced to rock dust when making the acquaintance with kitchen scraps composting. The rock dust is sprinkled onto freshly added scraps, to "help prevent odour development". So in that kind of context, I'd say something is going on pH/acidity wise, helping steer decomposition in the right direction.
And also in sheet composting, rock dust is sprinkled between layers. Rethinking that microbially, it remains in the domain of the possible, but subject to revision
...maybe just adding an adequate amount of browns to any hi N scraps coming outside, or mixing those fresh grass clippings in the sheet mulch with bownish mulch that's already there has the same effect...

Because, what IS rock dust actually? Finely ground bedrock?
So if I feel I want some "grit" in my pile, and that the soil that got raked up with the leaves, or got sliced off by the mowerblade because there was a bump in the lawn isn't enough, I could just take a handful of dirt from where I am standing and throw that in.
All the nutrients anyone will ever need are in the sand silt and clay that is the basis of all our soils, worldwide.
And a grain of sand... what did she just say in one of the lessons I just watched??? the nutrients in one grain of sand are enough for something in the acres range
So I'd think the soil just stuck on the organic matter we're composting is more than enough to also provide goodies for any saprophytic microbes that should be in that diverse and able community we're trying to grow...
Hm!
Something tells me we don't even know yet what the "optimal" diversity actually looks like, in terms of preferred foods and such. We do know there are switchers, fungi that can be mycorrhizal but also can survive on their own, but what was that with the saprophytes?
Do they tap into mineral as well as organic matter, or are there switchers there too?
I'd need to go back to Teaming with Fungi to check on that, I remember adding a few question marks into the margins there haha

What's your take on the matter??
Cheers!

Arrgghh, I'm sorry asked, PMSL........................joking, obviously, we love your rambles........so PLEASE ramble on(we all get to learn something, LOL).

Your knowledge on the mineralization processes within the soil is far superior to mine and it's likely I'm still heavily influenced by container growing in a soil less mix, where I do think a mineral input is definitely beneficial. All I do know for sure is that the thermal compost I did last year contained both and was like black gold. During the resting period worms moved in and started breeding like crazy although looking back, the ingredients for that compost were very elaborate and I did have to turn it everyday for around a week to keep control of the temperature. After my previous failed attempt due to lack of nitrogen, I think I went a little heavy on the N 2nd time round, I imagine it was probably quite bacterialy dominant, which would explain why those canna plants did so well.

We've all read about the benefits of biochar in the soil and as long as it's uncontaminated can only see it having the same benefits within the compost pile. I also think it's a great way to innoculate the biochar(if you are going to use it) with the good microbes and actually use the compost as the delivery mechanism to the soil while topdressing/mulching.

 

[calliandra]

Arrgghh, I'm sorry asked, PMSL........................joking, obviously, we love your rambles........so PLEASE ramble on(we all get to learn something, LOL).

Your knowledge on the mineralization processes within the soil is far superior to mine and it's likely I'm still heavily influenced by container growing in a soil less mix, where I do think a mineral input is definitely beneficial. All I do know for sure is that the thermal compost I did last year contained both and was like black gold. During the resting period worms moved in and started breeding like crazy although looking back, the ingredients for that compost were very elaborate and I did have to turn it everyday for around a week to keep control of the temperature. After my previous failed attempt due to lack of nitrogen, I think I went a little heavy on the N 2nd time round, I imagine it was probably quite bacterialy dominant, which would explain why those canna plants did so well.

We've all read about the benefits of biochar in the soil and as long as it's uncontaminated can only see it having the same benefits within the compost pile. I also think it's a great way to innoculate the biochar(if you are going to use it) with the good microbes and actually use the compost as the delivery mechanism to the soil while topdressing/mulching.

haha! here's to mutually enriching conversations!

Ah yes I can imagine the biochar was greeat in your compost, especially it being so n-heavy, that extra aeration surely helped keep it on the right side of things!
I'm also thinking it's very beneficial to have that biochar in there if you expect to store it for a while too...
Hm, thanks for that! I think I'm going to start adding biochar to my worm bin, I'm always a bit nervous, especially in storage, about it being aerated enough

Thing is, that stuff really is black gold to me, very hard to obtain properly made biochar hereabouts, so I'm totally dependant on the occasional 20L bucketful from a friend from half way across the country
And also why I haven't given a single thought to adding it to the big compost, just based on volumes!
Do you remember what ratio you added it to yours in?

 

[ttystikk]

Ahh thank you!
And yes, there is hope!

This morning, the pile's hotspot was at 65°C, with a larger area at 55°C, the bottom still at 39-43°C.
I'm going to let that count, so it's three days starting then til turn #1 - with some luck!

I discovered it's tricky to try and assess moisture when the temps are ideal - dam hot to put one'S hand in lol
What I managed to snatch out was a tad on the dry side, almost going on 30%, so I watered the pile on the hot side from the top a bit.

View attachment 3953268

The hottest action is still happening in the top half of the pile, on the side it's leaning towards.

Ahhhh and mycelium forming on the outside of that hot side too
View attachment 3953269

-- seeing that, somehow, really turns me on, I mean, like really LOL

I'm surprised at how hot the pile is. I was expecting 50C... But 65? That's much hotter than I'd have guessed.

 

[calliandra]

I'm surprised at how hot the pile is. I was expecting 50C... But 65? That's much hotter than I'd have guessed.

Yep, we need to have every bit of that pile between 55°-71°C (that's 131°-165°F) and at around 50% humidity for 3 days, to make sure pathogens and plant seeds are taken care of AND the aerobic microbes don't get killed.
As soon as the pile hits 72°C, or goes to 30% humidity, it needs turning immediately to keep the pile on the right side of things.

From my measurements last night, no danger of that happening though. The hotspot, at 60°, was on the other side of the pile, and what had been so hot in the morn had gone back to 50°C (OK I need to remember I added water, but it was needed...).
So I have a wandering middle haha
And may not have the temps...

I do have that basketful of grass clippings in reserve, but am not quite sure how to add it.
Somewhere along the way, I picked up that whenever you add new materials, you're starting over.
Or I could just add to the parts of the pile that haven't been cooked yet? lmao

Nah I'm getting over there to see where it's at and need to stop fretting and chill about the outcome - even though I sooo desperately want to have my own innoculants! ahaha
It's a learning process, might as well enjoy the journey

 

[calliandra]

Today, I was chided for being over-exact and impatient, and told to let that pile go, arrividerci in 2 years.
lol, naaah

Instead, yesterday I started crashcoursing Ingham's compost course, and with a tiny bit more clarity, went to examine my pile.
The temps, still all over the place, moisture OK, but what I had failed to check on was massive actinobacterial growth.
I had it, all around the pile (except the bottom, which, it turned out, had this little whiff of vomit to it)


So nevermind that temps hadn't been reached in the middle or held anywhere. Time to turn.


I started taking the top off and turning the middle into the bottom, adding some of the extra clippings, but then ended up just piling in the material after it got thoroughly mixed up and rewetted outside the pile.

Which is what I should've done right from the start.
Yes my layers were thin, but those actinobacteria really were thriving between the layers of leaves (which had gotten pretty stacked = no oxygen passages) and the clippings.
Also, I obviously didn't mix up leaves and halfcompost well.
NO WONDER the pile was heating up irregularly, given the irregular spread of inputs!

So I worked in those extra clippings, along with 4L worth of coffee grounds, kelp meal, and some nuts and beans no longer good for eating - the N I had, hoping that'd be enough this time.
Really turning that stuff before putting it in the pile.
It was dark by the time I finished haha



Still not sure what's going on with that pile.
It was going to go anaerobic, I could see that.
But why, all fresh and mostly in good moisture?
Why isn't enough oxygen getting in that middle?
Not enough structure? for greens I really only have those clippings in there, then leaves and the halfcompost, which was going earthy - in spots. hmmmm. Maybe I should've added something more stalky - I could harvest the ground elder from under my neighbor's raspberries...

Also, the sheep manure has made a comeback, with incredible aromas I wouldn't have thought it still had in it. Markedly SHEEP
Then I found some notes on the first attempt to compost that shit - and lo, I had noted I should've broken up that sheep manure better, and wet it before adding (just as I have been doing with my wormbin these past 6 months?! ffs lol)
OK I think lesson learned this time?

I only made it over to the garden in the early afternoon today, and the pile was way more uniform in heating - between 40° and low 50's. But still, the middle (various points 50cm into the pile from top and sides) was the cooler part, the 50's were only about 30cm in from the edges.



(Yeah, I need to learn how to not build them as if I lived in Pisa too haha)

So I may be getting the same again.
But I also realized I would never know about this if I had strictly followed instructions and just measured the middle 3x each time.... So, kinda pretending I didn't see that hot ring and hoping it'll get straightened out by tomorrow
If it really does do the same again, I guess I'll just restart again, adding the stalkier stuff, maybe add some of my precious wood chips (mixed up last fall with leaves that have pretty much already disappeared), which I'd reserved as bedding for the wormbin (it does GREAT in there!).

By now, I have nooooo idea what's going on in there C:N wise, so this is going to be a freestyler pile with very uncertain results.
The reason I insist on having it compost thermally is the sheep manure.
I really want to make sure there are no pathogens in there anymore. Whereby I have heard Ingham say that pathogens cannot survive without a living host - context is paramount, so just depositing that here as a note to check on in more detail.

So there we have it!
What sounds sooo simple in theory haha!
Cheers!

 

[calliandra]

This morning, the temperatures have risen, slowly.
We're at about 36 hours since the re-set.
They're now ranging between 45-55°C in general, plus hotspots of 60°C in that damned ring of heat.
Saw actinobacteria beginning over when digging in to check moisture. But only small spots for now, those we can leave.

So looks like at least the more thorough mixing up of inputs has improved the pile in terms of uniformity



A closeup of those mycelium colonies towards the bottom


I plucked a few wisps of that off and looked at it under the microscope, to ascertain whether this is good or bad stuff.
Not quite sure of how the slide should be prepared in this case, I first just threw a strand + a drop of water on, but had to take the cover slip off again and spread those strands a bit with needles to get any sort of image quality, the strands were so densely intertwined.
Still visible to the eye on the slide after spreading, as a light cloud.
At 40x total magnification (total mag meaning the objective's strength times the eyepiece's, which does 10x)

Part of the upper outbranchings at 100x


So to explain a bit what we're seeing here. (@iHearAll , in example of what variety you could run into when looking at mycorrhizal root colonization - just that these here are saprophytes... not sure the endomycorrhizal arbuscules are morphologically different enough to help identify species, so you may only have these "classical" 4 traits to go by )

Beneficial fungi typically have hyphae with some color, subdivided evenly into sections (=septate), with even diameters along the length of them, that are wider than 3 micrometers. Using these morphological criteria, we can ascertain that the sample has quite a few species (diffenrent kinds), some reaaally good ones - even as a beginner, I can differentiate at least 3 with pretty good certainty- , some so-lala ones, and some not so great ones.

The purple arrow is pointing to a clearly beneficial fungus - it's colored, septate, with consistent diameter along the single strands of somewhere around10 micrometers, very nice. Exactly where the point is, there'S a compartment that is empty, so a pure carbon tube. This can happen when a fungal feeding nematode sucks out all the juices, but the fungus itself also can move its cytoplasm back and forth between chambers (usually when it retracts from unfriendly conditions).

The red arrow left is pointing to another species, darker than ambient color, even-diameter hyphae still around 5 micrometers... but no, or maybe irregular, septae. 3 hits vs. 1 strike = still on the good side.

And then the orange arrow pointing to that much narrower specimen, not quite focused here. But, clear in color, no septae, the diameter even but closer to 2-3 micrometers.. now this one, not so welcome. But the whole soil food web also contains the not-so-great guys (And even the bad guys!) just that in healthy conditions, they will be massively outcompeted by the sturdy beneficials.

Here's another take at 200x (different area)
See those little balls, especially in the topmost strand left?!
Those are vesicles containing food the fungus collected

 

[calliandra]

And to follow up on my little runt
(last seen here on day 18 https://www.rollitup.org/t/callis-conundrums.936771/page-8#post-13543339)

Day 33 (of about 77) today, and starting to go all starryeyed



In the meantime she's gotten uppotted to the ~10L pot, and mulched 4cm thick with buckwheat hulls (@DonTesla, weren't we talking about that somewhere? )
(day 25, freshly foliared post potting + LST, right before lights out)

I'm really liking it as mulch in this case, because Honeypie hasn't gained much height but needed LSTing anyway. So for some days, she was practically lying on that bed of mulch, making it an excellent thing that that buckwheat is TOTALLY dry, always.
Though when I go to water in the chlorophyll juices (since the last post, made either of her own leaves removed for LST, or comfrey, of which she got 2 leaves just yesterday), I do move the mulch aside, so it doesn't get messed up with plant residue that I want to have directly on the soil.

What buckwheat hulls don't do is build a barrier against fungus gnats moving in and out of the soil (which sand does achieve). But, not worrying about those.
And something's started on the leaves, these whitish flecks appearing, not sure what's up with that. I assume we'll see, not worrying about those either.
(gosh you'd think I'M a totally laidback person from this post alone haha)

When I uppotted her a week ago, I also switched her to GLR 6/2 (thanks again @ttystikk!), still only 50W, giving her 3 rounds of consuming her starches so she'd grow a bit more of height there (no big difference, she started blooming at the same time so it just may be her flowering stretch).
Also it's allowed me to stay indecisive about the extractor fan haha - as she's going into bloom, no smells at all from her, though we have temps between 22-28°C and continuously low humidity.

NO danger of this Miss monstering up on me like the sour stomper did!
But she's low maintenance, leaving me more time to fret over the compost haha
Cheers!

 

[iHearAll]

This morning, the temperatures have risen, slowly.
We're at about 36 hours since the re-set.
They're now ranging between 45-55°C in general, plus hotspots of 60°C in that damned ring of heat.
Saw actinobacteria beginning over when digging in to check moisture. But only small spots for now, those we can leave.

So looks like at least the more thorough mixing up of inputs has improved the pile in terms of uniformity

View attachment 3955157

A closeup of those mycelium colonies towards the bottom

View attachment 3955158
I plucked a few wisps of that off and looked at it under the microscope, to ascertain whether this is good or bad stuff.
Not quite sure of how the slide should be prepared in this case, I first just threw a strand + a drop of water on, but had to take the cover slip off again and spread those strands a bit with needles to get any sort of image quality, the strands were so densely intertwined.
Still visible to the eye on the slide after spreading, as a light cloud.
At 40x total magnification (total mag meaning the objective's strength times the eyepiece's, which does 10x)
View attachment 3955163
Part of the upper outbranchings at 100x
View attachment 3955174

So to explain a bit what we're seeing here. (@iHearAll , in example of what variety you could run into when looking at mycorrhizal root colonization - just that these here are saprophytes... not sure the endomycorrhizal arbuscules are morphologically different enough to help identify species, so you may only have these "classical" 4 traits to go by )

Beneficial fungi typically have hyphae with some color, subdivided evenly into sections (=septate), with even diameters along the length of them, that are wider than 3 micrometers. Using these morphological criteria, we can ascertain that the sample has quite a few species (diffenrent kinds), some reaaally good ones - even as a beginner, I can differentiate at least 3 with pretty good certainty- , some so-lala ones, and some not so great ones.

The purple arrow is pointing to a clearly beneficial fungus - it's colored, septate, with consistent diameter along the single strands of somewhere around10 micrometers, very nice. Exactly where the point is, there'S a compartment that is empty, so a pure carbon tube. This can happen when a fungal feeding nematode sucks out all the juices, but the fungus itself also can move its cytoplasm back and forth between chambers (usually when it retracts from unfriendly conditions).

The red arrow left is pointing to another species, darker than ambient color, even-diameter hyphae still around 5 micrometers... but no, or maybe irregular, septae. 3 hits vs. 1 strike = still on the good side.

And then the orange arrow pointing to that much narrower specimen, not quite focused here. But, clear in color, no septae, the diameter even but closer to 2-3 micrometers.. now this one, not so welcome. But the whole soil food web also contains the not-so-great guys (And even the bad guys!) just that in healthy conditions, they will be massively outcompeted by the sturdy beneficials.

Here's another take at 200x (different area)
See those little balls, especially in the topmost strand left?!
Those are vesicles containing food the fungus collected
View attachment 3955192

Im going to have to read these posts during lunch. Thanks cali.

 

[ttystikk]

I feel like I'm in biology class.

Very cool!

 

[ttystikk]

Is all this happening in real time? In other words, you built the pile, it heated up in just a couple of days, then you turned it and it's only been a day or two?

 

[calliandra]

I feel like I'm in biology class.

Very cool!

Ah there is so much to discover in that world of little critters! I do love it very much, all the mystery and wonders included.
Glad you're enjoying it too!

 

[calliandra]

Is all this happening in real time? In other words, you built the pile, it heated up in just a couple of days, then you turned it and it's only been a day or two?

yep lol
I'm just uploading the pix for the update

 

[ttystikk]

yep lol
I'm just uploading the pix for the update

I have a huge pile of compostable material in my back yard. I'm taking notes.

If I do this right, I can use the results to cover my back yard and seed with grass.

 

[calliandra]

I have a huge pile of compostable material in my back yard. I'm taking notes.

If I do this right, I can use the results to cover my back yard and seed with grass.

oh absolutely!
I'm thinking that it's all in the starting materials, getting the proper ratio od hi-N, greens and browns, and then mixing them up correctly.
From there, it should be easier than what I'm doing
I'll catch you up with a good recipe later, gotta update before I forget what I was goingto write haha

 

[calliandra]

The pile this evening, so about a day and 22 hours since I turned and restarted it


In that time, it's shrunk about 20cm, not sure I'm happy about that, thinking of aeration...

The pile overall is now in the low 50's, with the center at 53-55°C. The ring of heat, still there, about 25cm into the pile, but it's at 58-60°C, so hasn't heated up more than it was at this morning. Continuing like this, by tomorrow the center could be over 55°C and cooking..

So I was starting to feel happy about it until I went to check moisture.
The moisture's OK, though starting to get on the dry side near the top, but nicely at 50% further in.
But this.



The actinobacterial ring is starting to come back
Not massive yet, but by tomorrow, it could be.
Argh!
HOW am I ever going to get that stuff cooked if everytime I get close, I need to turn because of those fuckers?!?

Reallly on the fence whether I should then turn yet again, adding the coarser woodchips & ground elder I had in mind?
Or do I give up, let the actinobacteria take over and call the housing guy that he can bring the bulldozers?!?

WHY isn't there enough air in there?

I do think my starting material, especially the halfcompost, has complicated matters significantly.
Add my impatience to that and voilá
When the pile it's from collapsed last fall, I just left it. Really turning that uneven mix of stuff has obviously helped even out the temps, but there are still bound to be all sorts of icky critters in there.. composting half started... who however wouldn't be taking over like this if they didn't have the conditions!

Then on the side of the greens, I just went back to the picture of the grass clippings... how could I think I could count that as hi N?
I'd guesstimated the woodies at 60:1, and wished the grass to 15:1, but maybe it was just 20:1, or 25:1, and what about those little sheepy pockets of 10:1 suddenly erupting back into life - or the kelp, which I actually got a smell of too. And what about those spots in the halfcompost that were practically already some sort of soil?
So this pile is a giant mess, and I keep getting pulled back and forth between wanting to add a good dose of hi N or more structure

Tomorrow's temperatures will tell me more, who knows, if the center goes way up overnight, I may be able to turn it before the actinobacteria take over ... lol

oh and ttystikk, this is how NOT to do it, vivid and in full color haha

 

[ttystikk]

I dunno about that...

You're getting good temperature rise, it is a heterogeneous mixture so things aren't going to be exactly the same all over, so far so good? Give it a little water on top where it's dry and then turn it in a few days?

I'm not the expert, of course.