Defoliation and CO2
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dagwood45431
Well-Known Member
I'm seeing a lot of correlation but very little in the way of evidence of causation.
dagwood45431
Well-Known Member
Do you get worker's comp if you get injured in one of those crash tests?
Dumme
Well-Known Member
GWE? That's your literature, another forum? Lol.
Dumme
Well-Known Member
8-14 oz off a 400watt, even @14oz, that's a little less than 397g or <1gpw. LololWhen to defoliate (checklist)
- Growing indoors with grow lights
- Plant has several nodes (is no longer a seedling or young plant)
- Plant is healthy and fast growing
- Hardy strain
- Plant is so leafy that leaves are laying on top of each other, especially if it’s leafy in the middle of the plant, preventing light and air circulation from getting to the inside of the plant (see picture below for an example of a great candidate for defoliation)
When NOT to defoliate
You can see through this plant and light easily reaches the bottom. That lets you know this cannabis plant doesn't need to be defoliated
- Growing outdoors
- Plant is unhealthy or slow growing
- Strain is known to be finicky and tough to grow
- Plant is not very leafy
- First-time or new grower
My last grow I got 1.45 gpw, or ~15.5oz with a 300watt, without schwazz, and around 1.8EC the whole grow.
More evidence to leave the leaves on.
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I do grow and I leave my leaves on so I can get good yields.
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
(Experienced Growers Only) Controversial Defoliation Increases Marijuana Yields
by Keef Treez "The Defoliator"
Defoliation is an extreme marijuana growth control technique. It's not to be done lightly by beginners.
(For those interested, here's a cannabis defoliation tutorial by a different grower)
The topic of cannabi defoliation is one of the most controversial subjects in the marijuana growing field. People on both sides defend their position vehemently.
I'm on the side that believe there is absolutely nothing stressful about defoliation or bending branches. Honestly, there is no way to achieve nearly a pound of buds from a 2-3 foot tall plant indoors, except using defoliation.
Opponents often have arguments like, "PLANTS NEED THOSE LEAVES! If they didn't, they wouldn't be there."
Or my all-time favorite, "I have a friend who used to grow, and he insists that will hurt the plant."
Yet the saddest part of all is how so few people are willing to look at the evidence.
In some ways, I almost would prefer the rest of the growing world keep up their ill-advised lollipopping, removing growing tips, and other low-yield techniques. The defoliation technique has been loudly condemned by "experienced" growers for decades. Nevertheless, I am determined to educate other growers about defoliating and let them see the results for themselves.
So let me start by giving you some picture proof that defoliation works (make sure you scroll down to see all of them!).
You see, I've been defoliating intensively for 30 years. I am now training plants to be 32" tall and 32" round and yielding 250-400 grams under 400 watt lamp.
Nebula Haze from GrowWeedEasy.com: Yes, that's right, he said 8-14 OUNCES of
buds of marijuana harvested off each short, easy-to-manage 32" tall plant, using
just a regular 400 watt HID grow light.
Here are two of my beauties (the one on the right needs a good plucking)
How-To Tutorial: The Controversial Technique of Defoliation
Despite all the evidence (I've posted hundreds of pictures and shown dozens of growers in person), there is still somehow so much skepticism about defoliation techniques. Growers, especially new growers, often just say variations of, "It's common sense, how could removing any part of the plant cause you to get higher yields?"
I recently attended an advanced seminar with a prominent fellow grower and got roundly booed when attempting to describe the defoliation technique, even with pictures showing dramatic benefits.
Unlike many other growers, I believe what's most important is studying how the plant actually grows, instead of assuming she grows how we think she should grow. Real experimentation and unbiased observers are the only way growers are going to learn how to get the best yields for the amount of time, money, and effort.
And it's true that some types of defoliation are brutal to the plants (such as when misguided growers removing all the
leaves off extremely young marijuana plants), but other types of defoliation are actually hugely beneficial to increasing yields (I'll be showing you exactly what do do shortly).
And defoliation is beneficial for more than just marijuana, it also has been proven to increase yields for certain other types of crops. For example, it's well-known that cowpeas experience significant increases in yields when up to 50% of their leaves are defoliated during their flowering stage... (source)
This marijuana girl is 32" tall (the dimensions of this girl are 32"x32"x32" to be exact). She was intensely defoliated throughout her life.
And it's true that the real beauty of defoliation is difficult to translate in pictures and verbally.
But I will do my best to give you everything you need to start producing your own huge yields with marijuana defoliation.
But First, Let Me Show You About Increased Bud Production With Defoliation During the Flowering Stage
Before plucking
Immediately After Plucking
Just 4 days later, look at the incredible bud growth
Only 4 Days After That (after another defoliation session)
Are you beginning to see the power of defoliation?
How Early Do You Start Defoliating?
I first started defoliating in desperation after many years of SOG, which I feel has proven to be too much work for inconsistent yields. After much experimentation, I've found my yields have been more consistent when training a single plant to use this space instead of 4 or 9 or 25 SOG clones.
Never mind the fact that in many states, patients are limited to just a handful of plants, removing SoG as a viable option.
Most growers who are curious about this do not want to perform defoliation on small plants. They consider the practice in veg to be too radical. And I 100% agree that totally stripping your seedlings of all leaves will be devastating to their growth.
And the honest truth is that defoliation isn't for everyone. Beginners are often already dealing with the drawbacks to their choice of method or media, and defoliation can be disastrous to any but the healthiest of plants.
Because of this, I sometimes hesitate to throw defoliation into the mix of challenges for beginning growers and I strongly advise any growers to experiment with defoliation (or with any extreme growth control method) in the vegetative stage only where there is nothing at stake.
That being said, I believe the only reason you should allow a marijuana plant to leaf out completely is in an outdoor situation where you want as large a plant as possible. In that case you can save deleafing for mid to late summer after full-stretch and branching.
I'm sold !!!
gonna cut off all my leaves and get more buds now
Don't you know leaves get in the way of buds?! Get rid of them! More light to the buds means bigger buds! And also, don't let leaves live longer than 2 weeks because MORE BUDS
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
FTW man, Cut the main cola off when it starts to block light to the popcorn buds for bigger popcorn buds
going to have to excuse me now .....I'm going fishing for a fuck to give
BobCajun
Well-Known Member
I don't know about the CO2 but something I'm trying now is to defol most of the leaves on the main stem, and pinch off the bud tips, at 5 weeks flowering. But the new twist is to increase the light to 13/11 until the bud leaves get big enough. I noticed that with 13/11 buds grow very leafy, so can't be used all the time, but maybe for 1 week after the defol, from week 5 to 6, and then back to 12/12 for that last 4 weeks. Or possibly for 2 weeks, if one doesn't seem to leaf them up enough.
BTW, I pinch the tops off, like 1/8", to make all the buds along that stem into primary buds. It'll be like a bunch of top buds along a stick. The defol allows all those buds to get direct light, at least for a week or 2, so they get well established. Then if there's too much more shading by the new leaves, may have to do some leaf pruning, meaning cutting off the outer halves of the offending leaflets.
BTW, I pinch the tops off, like 1/8", to make all the buds along that stem into primary buds. It'll be like a bunch of top buds along a stick. The defol allows all those buds to get direct light, at least for a week or 2, so they get well established. Then if there's too much more shading by the new leaves, may have to do some leaf pruning, meaning cutting off the outer halves of the offending leaflets.
RedWhiteBlueGreen
Well-Known Member
Firstly, saying an object which is casting a shadow isn't blocking light is just plain dumb. Secondly, the parts of the light that do travel through a top leaf are useless to any leaves below because the wavelengths they need have been absorbed by the chlorophyll in the top leaf. A leaf doesn't absorb 'light', it absorbs wavelength frequencies. Also, when people talk about light penetration, they are referring to the relative drop off in light intensity from source, not how many layers of leaves it can zap through - otherwise why would plants bother growing towards the sun if light penetrates everything?? Maybe the rainforest canopy is just a myth! Plus by your logic you'd only need 1 light bulb for the whole world lol! And yes of course the sun is the most powerful light in the solar system, though I wasn't really disputing that, plus the exact difference between outdoors and indoors growing is they're two totally separate growing environments so of course somethings will be done different.
And yes I agree you can't trust everyone on here, though please show me anywhere online where you can. Plus, I still find pics always trump no pics, and the issue of verification comes into play afterwards. Oh, and if you could send me links to all these controlled double blind lab tests on cannabis that you have access to, please do indeed - if you can show me academic papers and sources then I will truely apologise for thinking you to be so ill-formed.
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RedWhiteBlueGreen
Well-Known Member
When to defoliate (checklist)
- Growing indoors with grow lights
- Plant has several nodes (is no longer a seedling or young plant)
- Plant is healthy and fast growing
- Hardy strain
- Plant is so leafy that leaves are laying on top of each other, especially if it’s leafy in the middle of the plant, preventing light and air circulation from getting to the inside of the plant (see picture below for an example of a great candidate for defoliation)
When NOT to defoliate
You can see through this plant and light easily reaches the bottom. That lets you know this cannabis plant doesn't need to be defoliated
- Growing outdoors
- Plant is unhealthy or slow growing
- Strain is known to be finicky and tough to grow
- Plant is not very leafy
- First-time or new grower
Wow! And that's all really good info too cheers Nate - I hadn't yet got round to properly researching though am glad I got into this argument now, as every cloud has a silver lining! Thanks man and just leave everyone else to it - I learnt long time ago there's no point trying to educate idiots so you may as well save your stress for someone worthwhile! Great grows too dude!
needynate
Well-Known Member
thanks.. i just cant understand how people can have proof slapped right in their face and still refuse to see the truth .. ignorant people have always bothered me and I've never been one to let the foolery slide .but im happy to know that this site isn't just filled with dumb asses ,i guess people like us r just rare .
a mongo frog
Well-Known Member
Bro you don't have to defoliate to have monster yields. Everyone knows that.
RedWhiteBlueGreen
Well-Known Member
Oh and Dumme (which is so ironically apt btw!), this will be the last time I respond to you as I was too polite to console Needynate with it earlier, though I'm happy to say it now you're clearly itching to get nasty again, the reason being is the old proverb poser of who is more stupid; an idiot or a man who argues with an idiot?
So for the last time of being that man - you say leaves 'never' block light??! Hmmmmm, so I guess chloropyhll (and all surrounding leaf tissue) is deviously translucent despite looking like a solid colour block, yet somehow magically is still able to absorb light into it's translucent cells yet then somehow also releases it all again after absorption and it restores back to the light all the energy it deducted & used right?! (The answers no btw) And I'm not disputing photosynthesis occurs either. Secondly you pretty much can look at it as 1 leave blocking another because that's what's fecking happening!! Yes energy is relocated, as it is in any living organism, yet the plant still needs to maximise light yield - otherwise by your logic, 1 lone leaf could power the whole plant fine lol! And the limit in water uptake due to reduced stomatas is negligible enough to be obsolete as a factor, if you're defoliating and not stripping it bare.
Sorry to break it to you dude as I was trying to be nice earlier yet it's sadly ironic that the one person constantly accusing others of psuedo science is the one spouting the most and just mixing it with random biology facts.
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needynate
Well-Known Member
nobody sais u have to do anything. but if ur pulling a large harvest without defoliating, all im saying if u defoliate too your yield will be even bigger .. it
adds more weight simple as that..
RedWhiteBlueGreen
Well-Known Member
I know what you mean in a way, though I can appreciate if people are happy and feeling nailed down already then let them crack on - though there is no need for everyone to suddenly jump on you, as if they don't agree then they should just be letting you crack on too. More the telling difference is that if someone like Dumme suddenly said something we really learnt from we would admit it and be thankful, yet he would steadfastly refuse to learn anything whatsoever from someone he sneers on - sitting & listening rather than shouting is soundest base to learn any subject from.
needynate
Well-Known Member
i apparently have to post this again ..anybody who sais defoliating doesn't work is full of shit .. when u make such claims your pretty much saying jungle boys and other top large scale growers don't know what they're doing .. and that's obviously a damn lie
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- jungleboysSome SFVXTK bred by Jungle Boys ..The right amount of "Defoliation" aka de leafing through out the plants cycle is very important knowing how much to take and when to take it. As the plants start to develop in flower you can start getting more aggresive. Some pheno types do better completely stripped down some need to be done over a period of time. It's up to us as growers to know our strains. Yield is greatly increased when the middle and lower growth can get good light penetration through out the entire veg and flower cycle. #jungleboys#playingwithfireson#propdcompliant#alwaysimitatedneverduplicated#ogkings#losangelesfarmers#tlcfarms#thejungleboys
needynate
Well-Known Member
exactly ,they're closed minded and not open to learn, and they're all obviously riu buddies/lovers lol.. im sure they're on a lot of threads teaming up .trying to make their points seem valid.. funny dummy dume said a few times
"Anyone that goes simply by your empirical observation and copies your method, is a product of "social conformity" . to bad him and his buddies don't realize they're the conformist ,basing their logic off empirical observation...