Proof of failed Republican economic policies, aka where Trump wants to take us

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
bundee1 said:
https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/07/kansas-republicans-raise-taxes-rebuking-their-gop-governors-real-live-experiment-in-conservative-policy/#pt0-1415

Roads are shit and schools close early. People falsely claiming small business status to avoid paying taxes. NLSX1's wet dream.
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The Reagan conservative movement is dead. Trickle down voodoo economics never delivered prosperity or a balanced budget but it sure did bring in the votes. Shrub killed the movement by showing extreme tax cuts and spending increases only bring wealth to the wealthy and poverty to everybody else. The tea party never was conservative in Reagan's sense. It's just authoritarian right wing movement that was what the average Reagan Republican wanted all along. The shitbags don't want democracy.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
dagwood45431 said:
The plan to misinform the public started by Roger Ailes (thankfully, now decomposing) back during the Nixon admin was implemented and wildly successful.
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How to fight this disinformation campaign that the stupid have so thoroughly swallowed?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
The Reagan conservative movement is dead. Trickle down voodoo economics never delivered prosperity or a balanced budget but it sure did bring in the votes. Shrub killed the movement by showing extreme tax cuts and spending increases only bring wealth to the wealthy and poverty to everybody else. The tea party never was conservative in Reagan's sense. It's just authoritarian right wing movement that was what the average Reagan Republican wanted all along. The shitbags don't want democracy.
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Same question you;

How to move the country to the left?

There isn't any doubt it needs to be done.

I still think there's a line of thought and discussion that can change people's minds.

Simply calling them stupid doesn't work; they'll vote for the Chumpster Fuhrer anyway. Absurd as it may sound, they still need a good reason to start voting for their own interests.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
dagwood45431 said:
That is a great question. We're in post-truth land now. Can we ever go back?
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Yes. In fact, it's the only direction left.

Pointing out the lies and suggesting an alternative will bear fruit sooner or later.

It has to be done in such a way that the other side can hear without being insulted and can think about with an open mind.

I think a conversation about the recent reversal of Kansas Governor Brownback's zeroing out of the tax laws after the massive mess they made would be a great start.

Low taxes only serve to increase income inequality. They don't increase business or economic activity because they don't support the middle class or its buying power.
 
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Same question you;

How to move the country to the left?

There isn't any doubt it needs to be done.

I still think there's a line of thought and discussion that can change people's minds.

Simply calling them stupid doesn't work; they'll vote for the Chumpster Fuhrer anyway. Absurd as it may sound, they still need a good reason to start voting for their own interests.
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"the country" isn't a right wing monolith and nowhere in the post you replied to do I call the right wing voters "stupid". It's clear that radical right prefers authoritarian leadership. They have the man they want. They think they are voting in their own interests, do you want to argue with them that the aren't? That's a wasted exercise. Fortunately, right wing assholes like @tampee and @sixstring2112 don't represent "the country" any more than the other 25% of the country who are rabid right wing racists.

"The country" also isn't a liberal monolith.

At this time, Trump is doing the heavy lifting of showing "the country" what the right considers great governance and are appalled. Especially the next generation who will have this ugly period of history to refer to when they assume the position of power. @Unclebaldrick says that this excursion to the political right was inevitable. I think he means that we need to grow weary of left-right divisive politics and learn all over again how to meet in the middle. We can't talk the issue to conclusion, it must be lived. Under this scenario, conditions are going to get worse for a while longer, IMO. While I don't want this to be true, facts bear it out to be so. Maybe, I don't really know.

That doesn't mean we must suffer fools like peckerwood quietly. Antifascism must have a voice to counter fascism.

But I don't have an answer that is immediately satisfying. More like, I counsel doing nothing for the time being and let the stew cook a while.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
"the country" isn't a right wing monolith and nowhere in the post you replied to do I call the right wing voters "stupid". It's clear that radical right prefers authoritarian leadership. They have the man they want. They think they are voting in their own interests, do you want to argue with them that the aren't? That's a wasted exercise. Fortunately, right wing assholes like @tampee and @sixstring2112 don't represent "the country" any more than the other 25% of the country who are rabid right wing racists.

"The country" also isn't a liberal monolith.

At this time, Trump is doing the heavy lifting of showing "the country" what the right considers great governance and are appalled. Especially the next generation who will have this ugly period of history to refer to when they assume the position of power. @Unclebaldrick says that this excursion to the political right was inevitable. I think he means that we need to grow weary of left-right divisive politics and learn all over again how to meet in the middle. We can't talk the issue to conclusion, it must be lived. Under this scenario, conditions are going to get worse for a while longer, IMO. While I don't want this to be true, facts bear it out to be so. Maybe, I don't really know.

That doesn't mean we must suffer fools like peckerwood quietly. Antifascism must have a voice to counter fascism.

But I don't have an answer that is immediately satisfying. More like, I counsel doing nothing for the time being and let the stew cook a while.
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I didn't mean to imply you call all conservatives stupid.

I think this problem is being driven by forces larger then might first be suspected;

Buckley v Valeo was decided in 1976. It removed limits to courage campaign finance.

Citizens United extended this.

The removal of laws against large media outlets, and the subsequent aggregation of newspapers, TV and radio stations, etc into a very few huge monolithic media dissemination combines.

All of these have led to the current situation where political parties need not respond to their traditional base to make money and remain in control.

This is being tested on the left by a large number of as yet not well organized Progressive groups, rapidly coalescing into a larger movement- witness the March for Truth just a few days ago.

I think we need to break up the major media corporations, in addition to an end to money in politics. The reasons why it must be done are playing across every screen and newspaper in the country, either overly- or by conspicuous absence of coverage of the issues average citizen's care about most.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I didn't mean to imply you call all conservatives stupid.

I think this problem is being driven by forces larger then might first be suspected;

Buckley v Valeo was decided in 1976. It removed limits to courage campaign finance.

Citizens United extended this.

The removal of laws against large media outlets, and the subsequent aggregation of newspapers, TV and radio stations, etc into a very few huge monolithic media dissemination combines.

All of these have led to the current situation where political parties need not respond to their traditional base to make money and remain in control.

This is being tested on the left by a large number of as yet not well organized Progressive groups, rapidly coalescing into a larger movement- witness the March for Truth just a few days ago.

I think we need to break up the major media corporations, in addition to an end to money in politics. The reasons why it must be done are playing across every screen and newspaper in the country, either overly- or by conspicuous absence of coverage of the issues average citizen's care about most.
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I was responding to the idea that the country has not moved to the right. It has. I don't think the movement to the right is permanent and that Trump's poor behavior is actually saving us from more movement to the right. Not that I think these people are going to become social democrats overnight but eventually, the electorate will turn on the propagandists like they did on McCarthy and his faction in the fifties.

I think the wealthy right have been pouring huge sums of money into the right wing radio media outlets without much concern over the pay back in terms of increased sales. They profit from their ability to write laws in their own favor and damping regulation so they can cheat more. Overturning Citizen's United won't change this. People getting savvy about right wing propaganda will. For his obvious, clumsy use of right wing propaganda, fake news and false stories, Trump is the best thing that ever happened to left.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I was responding to the idea that the country has not moved to the right. It has. I don't think the movement to the right is permanent and that Trump's poor behavior is actually saving us from more movement to the right. Not that I think these people are going to become social democrats overnight but eventually, the electorate will turn on the propagandists like they did on McCarthy and his faction in the fifties.

I think the wealthy right have been pouring huge sums of money into the right wing radio media outlets without much concern over the pay back in terms of increased sales. They profit from their ability to write laws in their own favor and damping regulation so they can cheat more. Overturning Citizen's United won't change this. People getting savvy about right wing propaganda will. For his obvious, clumsy use of right wing propaganda, fake news and false stories, Trump is the best thing that ever happened to left.
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Agreed. He's already woken up the Progressive Movement like never before in my lifetime.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
dagwood45431 said:
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Oh, I see what you are doing, because I respect the right of a person to control their own body and their property, you are confusing that with me endorsing what they might do. That's sort of an obvious conflation there. That was a nice way for me to malign your flaccid argumentation skills.

You still haven't told me how I or you has any right to create an unwanted human interaction with a person who would prefer not to interact with us? Why not flash your genius and tell me how that could be done without applying offensive force, you know, like a rapist does?
 
Justin-case

Justin-case

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Oh, I see what you are doing, because I respect the right of a person to control their own body and their property, you are confusing that with me endorsing what they might do. That's sort of an obvious conflation there. That was a nice way for me to malign your flaccid argumentation skills.

You still haven't told me how I or you has any right to create an unwanted human interaction with a person who would prefer not to interact with us? Why not flash your genius and tell me how that could be done without applying offensive force, you know, like a rapist does?
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What's property?
 
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