The Truth About Flushing

[Odin*]

i tried it once, just to see what happened. they did cure faster, but i think its not much of an advantage unless you have a lot of room to put dead plants in pots in. you gain maybe 3 or 4 days on the cure, ..."

In what sense did you "gain maybe 3 or 4 days". Was this in time to dry completely, in a 1 month cure? Not refuting your statement, it's just that I believe such "results" are purely anecdotal.

I sever them from the roots, hang them up side down in a dark controlled environment, and they are as smooth as crab in butter after the 5-7 days it takes them to dry. In that time they are ready to be bagged and the nose is overwhelming.

And Odin actually confirmed the science but I'm guessin most missed it

No, I pointed out that the plants are not performing anaerobic respiration after their roots are boiled (which contradicts your assertions) and I pointed out that if they do perform anaerobic respiration (due to the entire plant being submerged) it is stressful/detrimental to the plant (which also contradicts your assertions).

Since you're still using diversion/redirection to maintain your stance, I'll go out on a limb and guess you're going to attempt to use this portion of my post as "support" of your argument;

Though (aerobic) respiration continues, transporation is no longer possible as the plant is not able to draw in water/nutrients via it's (now "cooked") root system. The plant sweats (you've stated before that you leave the light schedule running), but isn't able to replenish itself. This forces the plant to draw from all it's resources, including the buds, as it struggles to transpire, continue photosynthesis, and make a futile attempt at developing new roots.


In a nutshell; boiling the roots causes STRESS. Forcing the plant to undergo anaerobic respiration (completely submerged) would also cause STRESS, as well as some wicked bud rot.

The plant drawing water from buds to cool itself and any mobile nutrients used in an effort to continue photosynthesis is not akin to "anaerobic respiration"/fermentation. The metabolic processes that continue after boiling the roots are "riddled" with stress and detriment.

This is where you say "no, tis not what I was referring to". So, here's your chance to point out the portion of my post that proves that the plant begins anaerobic respiration after boiling the roots and that it initiates a "faster cure".

 

[chemphlegm]

In what sense did you "gain maybe 3 or 4 days". Was this in time to dry completely, in a 1 month cure? Not refuting your statement, it's just that I believe such "results" are purely anecdotal.

I sever them from the roots, hang them up side down in a dark controlled environment, and they are as smooth as crab in butter after the 5-7 days it takes them to dry. In that time they are ready to be bagged and the nose is overwhelming.


".

i do similar but I cut the stems/buds down and dry on a hanging rack, controlled space. I tell you now they are the best they will ever be at the end of the week and for another month or two just sitting in the rack.
why are people fussing with fermenting and sweating for months just to get a smooth flavor when our way is perfect and time proven?

 

[RM3]

This is where you say "no, tis not what I was referring to". So, here's your chance to point out the portion of my post that proves that the plant begins anaerobic respiration after boiling the roots and that it initiates a "faster cure".

Anaerobic Respiration Process
When no oxygen is present, plants can temporarily use anaerobic respiration to create energy. It is not as efficient, since the glucose molecule does not break down completely, but rather changes into ethyl alcohol and carbon dioxide and creates only two molecules of ATP, or adenosine triphosphate. ATP is a means of storing energy in the form of sugars at the cellular level. Plants cannot keep up the anaerobic respiration process for long, only a few days at most

Note it says When no Oxygen is present

and here is an online botany book, chapter 18 covers all aspects of the process
http://plantsinaction.science.uq.edu.au/

This is exactly the same process that occurs when we chop a plant (remove the roots) to harvest. Fermentation starts (we call it the cure) sugars are converted to alcohol. The difference in in doin what I do is that the plants fast fade pullin on stored reserves in the leaves and the cure process is jump started. A fresh dried plant will smoke like a 10 day cure.

I don't care if you do/try it, I'll keep doin it cause it works

 

[BobCajun]

Well I just did a search on the root boiling thing. Not one person said yup, it totally works. Mostly like other forum topics where somebody asks about it and a bunch of people post completely unrelated shit. However, I did see a few posts where people said they tried it and it didn't do anything. One guy said it made the plant go limp. By this point in the history of Cannabis growing if not one person aside from RM3 says it works I gotta figure it probably doesn't.

There's a thread here about it, completely useless like all the others, but the guy with the limp plant is on it. The general consensus seems to be MYTH. Apparently it started when somebody thought it would drive THC from the roots to the buds. Obviously not the way things actually work. RM3 is into a lot of stuff like that, gas light routine for instance. Don't need an hour of light in the middle of the dark period, only need 1-5 minutes of red light, of very low wattage actually. RM3 gets set in his ways I guess. Seems like a nice enough guy, just highly questionable growing techniques.

 

[Odin*]

i do similar but I cut the stems/buds down and dry on a hanging rack, controlled space. I tell you now they are the best they will ever be at the end of the week and for another month or two just sitting in the rack.
why are people fussing with fermenting and sweating for months just to get a smooth flavor when our way is perfect and time proven?

It has taken as long as an entire month to dry trim an entire room. I've left them hanging as long as two weeks before even getting to the "dry trim". As long as the temp and humidity is on point it can sit out indefinitely.

I started out with this method, then gradually transitioned to a wet trim, with branches cut and hung. A couple years back, the crew was leaving for the night (~2am) and there were 8 left to take down. Those 8 were quickly chopped and hung, most of the large fans removed. Those 8 represented two separate strains (4 of each), each of which had many more examples in that same room that had already been wet trimmed. After the week of drying was complete, the 8 all looked better and had a stronger nose than their siblings who had been wet trimmed. There was visible signs of the stress imposed on the wet trim girls. It was then that I reverted back to my original method (as it was shown to me many years before).

 

[Odin*]

Anaerobic Respiration Process
When no oxygen is present, plants can temporarily use anaerobic respiration to create energy. It is not as efficient, since the glucose molecule does not break down completely, but rather changes into ethyl alcohol and carbon dioxide and creates only two molecules of ATP, or adenosine triphosphate. ATP is a means of storing energy in the form of sugars at the cellular level. Plants cannot keep up the anaerobic respiration process for long, only a few days at most

Note it says When no Oxygen is present

and here is an online botany book, chapter 18 covers all aspects of the process
http://plantsinaction.science.uq.edu.au/

This is exactly the same process that occurs when we chop a plant (remove the roots) to harvest. Fermentation starts (we call it the cure) sugars are converted to alcohol. The difference in in doin what I do is that the plants fast fade pullin on stored reserves in the leaves and the cure process is jump started. A fresh dried plant will smoke like a 10 day cure.

I don't care if you do/try it, I'll keep doin it cause it works

The roots perform anaerobic respiration when completely submerged for too long. Completely independent of the roots, the above ground portion of the plant performs anaerobic respiration if completely submerged. Since you boil the roots, killing them instantly, and the upper portion of the plant is not submerged, this "boil the roots" *technique* does not force the plant to perform anaerobic respiration. It just causes unnecessary stress (it would be less stressful if you did not maintain the light/dark schedule VS simply keeping them in the dark, though the soaked medium could contribute to botrytis/bud rot and exacerbate any PM problem, if present).

No, my post did not support your rendition of the science, I addressed this here;

I took this from your post;

"Anaerobic respiration or fermentation occurs in the absence of oxygen. The products of this form of respiration are often deleterious to the plant and the energy released is relatively small compared to aerobic respiration."

Deleterious to the plant, that means harmful, which means Roots also require oxygen for aerobic respiration which they obtain directly from the growing media."

"Roots also" and "growing media" separates the oxygen requirements of the "plant" (leaves) from it's root system, so boiling the roots and killing them does not then force the "plant" to forgoe aerobic respiration. The above soil portion of the plant undergoes aerobic respiration, independent of the root system. "Floods" that would force anaerobic respiration would need to completely submerge the plant. There are plants that can continue photosynthesis as well as fend off disease while completely submerged in order to survive such a flood. Cannabis is not one of those plants. Try it out, completely submerge a rooted clone/teen/late flower plant under water for a week.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Anaerobic Respiration Process
When no oxygen is present, plants can temporarily use anaerobic respiration to create energy. It is not as efficient, since the glucose molecule does not break down completely, but rather changes into ethyl alcohol and carbon dioxide and creates only two molecules of ATP, or adenosine triphosphate. ATP is a means of storing energy in the form of sugars at the cellular level. Plants cannot keep up the anaerobic respiration process for long, only a few days at most

Note it says When no Oxygen is present

and here is an online botany book, chapter 18 covers all aspects of the process
http://plantsinaction.science.uq.edu.au/

This is exactly the same process that occurs when we chop a plant (remove the roots) to harvest. Fermentation starts (we call it the cure) sugars are converted to alcohol. The difference in in doin what I do is that the plants fast fade pullin on stored reserves in the leaves and the cure process is jump started. A fresh dried plant will smoke like a 10 day cure.

I don't care if you do/try it, I'll keep doin it cause it works

While you are being schooled by smarter people than yourself you choose to link an obscure high school level Australian text book.

And you don't even link it to any proof. You just copy one paragraph that you think supports your theory.

You are wrong. Say it to yourself a few times. You are making more of a fool out of yourself than you were when I met you. And you were fucking silly and wrong about light and growing when you invited me in to your little fraternity last year.

How bout you invite all these growers to your site to read your incredible information? And see the pics of your work?

At least do it for entertainment value. Your guide threads at RM3 dot com were hysterical.

 

[BobCajun]

Why the hostility though? What did RM3 do that was evil?

 

[Odin*]

Why the hostility though? What did RM3 do that was evil?

I think Michigan Med (and a friend of his) have a bone to pick with RM.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Why the hostility though? What did RM3 do that was evil?

I think Michigan Med (and a friend of his) have a bone to pick with RM.

I stated earlier in the thread and many times before.

Rm3 and I had a private conversation going on his website where I made many points discrediting him.

He didn't like it and was condescending and rude and I responded in anger.

To out me from his community he posted only the angry portion of my pm's in a thread there. Breaking my trust and privacy and proving he is as ass hole with an agenda.

Funny part is I was discrediting him here when he invited me in. He was sure I would "see the light".

Well what he did makes him a rat who can't be trusted and I asked him to delete my account and any personal info. I had traded seeds with members of his unindexed site and now regretted sharing information.

He took a power stance and said no. And he tried to use it against me here as well.

RM3 is a rat and will always be treated like one by me.

 

[Temis420(Qc)]

Well after reading phew post here i concur that we are talking about making a good old fashion stew!
I boil my carrot too just to let you know ....

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Well I just did a search on the root boiling thing. Not one person said yup, it totally works. Mostly like other forum topics where somebody asks about it and a bunch of people post completely unrelated shit. However, I did see a few posts where people said they tried it and it didn't do anything. One guy said it made the plant go limp. By this point in the history of Cannabis growing if not one person aside from RM3 says it works I gotta figure it probably doesn't.

There's a thread here about it, completely useless like all the others, but the guy with the limp plant is on it. The general consensus seems to be MYTH. Apparently it started when somebody thought it would drive THC from the roots to the buds. Obviously not the way things actually work. RM3 is into a lot of stuff like that, gas light routine for instance. Don't need an hour of light in the middle of the dark period, only need 1-5 minutes of red light, of very low wattage actually. RM3 gets set in his ways I guess. Seems like a nice enough guy, just highly questionable growing techniques.

The only growers doing this are hiding on the unindexed Riddler site. They stick together like a fraternity so no one can tell them they are wrong.

The site doesn't come up in searches so you didn't find it.

 

[Lucky Luke]

I stated earlier in the thread and many times before.

Rm3 and I had a private conversation going on his website where I made many points discrediting him.

He didn't like it and was condescending and rude and I responded in anger.

To out me from his community he posted only the angry portion of my pm's in a thread there. Breaking my trust and privacy and proving he is as ass hole with an agenda.

Funny part is I was discrediting him here when he invited me in. He was sure I would "see the light".

Well what he did makes him a rat who can't be trusted and I asked him to delete my account and any personal info. I had traded seeds with members of his unindexed site and now regretted sharing information.

He took a power stance and said no. And he tried to use it against me here as well.

RM3 is a rat and will always be treated like one by me.

Not being nasty but that seems like a trivial thing to still be getting under your skin. Move on. Past is gone.

 

[Lucky Luke]

While you are being schooled by smarter people than yourself you choose to link an obscure high school level Australian text book.

.

And why knock Australia and New Zealand in ur remark? How is it "obscure"?
The editors seem to be highly qualified and its a Uni course reference material not high school.
Editorial committee


RanaMunnsC-115px.jpg

Professor Rana Munns is an honorary fellow at CSIRO Agriculture in Canberra, and professor in the School of Plant Biology, and the ARC Centre of Excellence in Plant Energy Biology, at the University of Western Australia. She uses physiological insights and molecular genetics to improve growth and yield of crop plants in dry or saline soils. Rana is a Fellow of the Australian Academy of Science, and an editor of PrometheusWiki, the plant methods wiki.





Susanne Schmidt2lt-115px.jpg

Professor Susanne Schmidt is a researcher and educator at The University of Queensland and Alexander von Humboldt fellow. Susanne has a passion for ecophysiology and plant nutrition and leads a vibrant group researching plant-microbe-soil interactions. Fundamental to applied research addresses environmental problems at the interface of ecology and agriculture.





beveridgeC.jpg

Professor Christine Beveridge is a researcher and educator at The University of Queensland and current Future Fellow of the Australian Research Council. Christine’s research team uses advanced molecular, physiology and computer modelling technologies to understand how mobile plant signals and resources interact to control shoot and root architecture and development.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Not being nasty but that seems like a trivial thing to still be getting under your skin. Move on. Past is gone.

I have. I'm just posting. This isn't my real life.

But he doesn't get to.

There is more than insults he did to anger me. He wasted a friend/patients time and was continually condescending about his silly crap to me. But like you said I'm not losing sleep over it all or anything.

It's my stupid fault for getting involved with the fraud.

Discrediting RM3 is a hobby for me now.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

And why knock Australia and New Zealand in ur remark? How is it "obscure"?
The editors seem to be highly qualified.
Editorial committee


RanaMunnsC-115px.jpg

Professor Rana Munns is an honorary fellow at CSIRO Agriculture in Canberra, and professor in the School of Plant Biology, and the ARC Centre of Excellence in Plant Energy Biology, at the University of Western Australia. She uses physiological insights and molecular genetics to improve growth and yield of crop plants in dry or saline soils. Rana is a Fellow of the Australian Academy of Science, and an editor of PrometheusWiki, the plant methods wiki.





Susanne Schmidt2lt-115px.jpg

Professor Susanne Schmidt is a researcher and educator at The University of Queensland and Alexander von Humboldt fellow. Susanne has a passion for ecophysiology and plant nutrition and leads a vibrant group researching plant-microbe-soil interactions. Fundamental to applied research addresses environmental problems at the interface of ecology and agriculture.





beveridgeC.jpg

Professor Christine Beveridge is a researcher and educator at The University of Queensland and current Future Fellow of the Australian Research Council. Christine’s research team uses advanced molecular, physiology and computer modelling technologies to understand how mobile plant signals and resources interact to control shoot and root architecture and development.

Wow. I said obscure because rm3 is in Colorado and from the heartland of America. And in the premier legal weed state. I figure he might link something closer to home.

I meant no disrespect to Australians. Or textbook writers.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Well after reading phew post here i concur that we are talking about making a good old fashion stew!
I boil my carrot too just to let you know ....

Man I hate cooked soggy carrots. Lol

 

[Budley Doright]

Why the hostility though? What did RM3 do that was evil?

Oh no .... now you've done it .

 

[Budley Doright]

Ok so I'm guessing no to the boiled roots thing then? Well I may try it on one of my outdoor girls just to see what all the fuss is about. And yes I've always wondered why, if it is "some say the best strain in the world" actual quote I believe, why the fuck you aren't a gazillionaire, I would be, bad marketing I'm figuring lol.

 

[BobCajun]

Well it probably wasn't a great idea to criticize him on his own forum. The outcome was pretty predictable. I agree that publicly posting PMs was dirty though.