Lola Grows
Well-Known Member
Plants like different humidity at different stages. I thought this was a really cool vid that explains why..... 2 min
Controlling humidity & why it's important
- Thread starter Lola Grows
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Plants like different humidity at different stages. I thought this was a really cool vid that explains why..... 2 min
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I just recently clued into Vapour Pressure Deficit for the grow room myself and now understand better why I keep burning my plants. We got real low RH here in northern Alberta and I can't do a lot about it as my exhaust fan has got to run often enough to get fresh CO2 to the plants so any moisture I add goes out every time the fan fires up. It's wired thru a heat/RH/Speed controller and runs when it's told to.
I want to use CO2 as well so a sealed room system is starting to seem like the way to go so I can really dial in my growing. Half way there now but the second half will be pricey.
There's a decent write up of it all at BigBudsMag with a couple videos too.
This is actually a pretty important issue to fine tune the grow room environment so thanks for posting it.
I want to use CO2 as well so a sealed room system is starting to seem like the way to go so I can really dial in my growing. Half way there now but the second half will be pricey.
There's a decent write up of it all at BigBudsMag with a couple videos too.
This is actually a pretty important issue to fine tune the grow room environment so thanks for posting it.
Lola Grows
Well-Known Member
I'm about to check BigBudsMag out . I ran into humidity issues ( struggled at 55 during flowering) and this helped me understand what I needed to do. I'm holding steady at 46/78 now & the fear of mold is gone.I just recently clued into Vapour Pressure Deficit for the grow room myself and now understand better why I keep burning my plants. We got real low RH here in northern Alberta and I can't do a lot about it as my exhaust fan has got to run often enough to get fresh CO2 to the plants so any moisture I add goes out every time the fan fires up. It's wired thru a heat/RH/Speed controller and runs when it's told to.
I want to use CO2 as well so a sealed room system is starting to seem like the way to go so I can really dial in my growing. Half way there now but the second half will be pricey.
There's a decent write up of it all at BigBudsMag with a couple videos too.
View attachment 3957739
This is actually a pretty important issue to fine tune the grow room environment so thanks for posting it. View attachment 3957742
Btw... I keep up with your posts and if you wrote a book , I'd most definitely purchase it. Your knowledge seems endless!!
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
It's harder to add RH in low RH situations, and maintain it, then to remove it.I just recently clued into Vapour Pressure Deficit for the grow room myself and now understand better why I keep burning my plants. We got real low RH here in northern Alberta and I can't do a lot about it as my exhaust fan has got to run often enough to get fresh CO2 to the plants so any moisture I add goes out every time the fan fires up. It's wired thru a heat/RH/Speed controller and runs when it's told to.
I want to use CO2 as well so a sealed room system is starting to seem like the way to go so I can really dial in my growing. Half way there now but the second half will be pricey.
There's a decent write up of it all at BigBudsMag with a couple videos too.
View attachment 3957739
This is actually a pretty important issue to fine tune the grow room environment so thanks for posting it. View attachment 3957742
Depending on how big an area is, the plant count , and their size. You can cycle less often......
So, how big and count/size of plant?
Running Co2 requires high RH and temps on a bell curve - the higher the target ppm.
I tightly control my temps to 71-74 and RH to 40-44 %
This amount is lower then the VPD chart says. I feed at a rate and frequency that is basically "normal". The RH helps increase transpiration and thus does the "pushing" of the nutrients in the soil and the plant reflects that (leaf tip yellow - just showing). I shoot for that on purpose.
I find the VPD as a bit off for what we really want to achieve.
Our considerations are:
Nutrient up-take near safe limits (pushing - if you like)
Reduced chance of molds and mildews
Increased needs by Co2 supplementation (Here IS where you need to follow the VPD chart).
General info for years has been 70 F and 50% RH.....I agree. You know why "I" run lower.....Why many of us do.
Big Buds mag is the propaganda RAG for AN......Any time they bring up one of their products in a piece and make claims about how their "made for MJ" nutrient does unbelievable things. They are exactly that - unbelievable....
Some interesting info once in a while......Not often enough to regularly read it....sorry if you don't like my opinion - It is what it is..
If you can set a gas system up to maintain your area at a 400-500ppm rate. You won't need to run that exhaust and temps /RH should be easy to maintain.
Lola Grows
Well-Known Member
That sounds sooooo confusing!! Idk anything about a gas system. I have a small 3.5x3.5 ( 8ft high) & 4 plants ( well 3 one is going outside because it refuses to show the sex) I keep the inline fan (6 inch) running at all times or my humidity goes to high. I just recently added a small dehumidifier for flowering and everything is ok now ( I still can't turn fan off during flowering stage ) I better stick to keeping it simple... that guy stuff is so complicated.
Lola Grows
Well-Known Member
Marijuana Cuttings humidity level
Week 1 growth: 70%
Week 2 growth: 70%
Week 1 flower: 65%
Week 2 flower: 60%
Week 3 flower: 55%
Week 4 flower: 50%
Week 5 flower: 50%
Week 6 flower: 45%
Week 7 flower: 45%
Week 8 flower: 40%
Week 9 flower: 40%
Marijuana seedlings humidity level
Week 1 growth: 60%
Week 2 growth: 60%
Week 1 flower: 55%
Week 2 flower: 50%
Week 3 flower: 50%
Week 4 flower: 50%
Week 5 flower: 50%
Week 6 flower: 45%
Week 7 flower: 45%
Week 8 flower: 40%
Week 9 flower: 40%
I'll add this too.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Careful or the sisterhood will get you.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
It was partly for OMU and his gassing future.
The idea of following the VPD charting has you at rather high RH levels for growing. I don't even like 50%....
As you reduce the average RH level. You increase the plants up-take. By increasing the up-take, you increase the amount of nutrient the plant gets in a day. You will use more at watering or water more often also.
I feed synthetics on a daily sched. I water my organics daily also. I use that increased up-take in figuring my mix rates for synthetics and for nutrient concentrations (or amounts if you will), when building soils, and I build by the yard AND - re-amend and reuse my soils....
When OMU says "dial in"..... That includes your environment, in relation to feed concentrations to achieve your goal. Mine is to get as close to strain "potentials" as I can..... each strain can be different in how much it gets. The feeding sched. and rates on the back of bottles are "average's" that need to be adjusted for some strains, up or down.
I have strains that are monster feeders!
Strains that like heavy Ca or Mg amounts.
Strains that like less of everything and run as much as 18 weeks or more....etc, etc.
That "dialing in" of strains is an art that is learned and difficult at best, to attempt to teach over a web page.. As a "general rule". Indica's tend to be heavier feeders then sativa's. There are exceptions to the "rule"!
Done this so long that looking at a plant, as it grows. Tells me what it needs, when and how much.....another "art" that is learned - period.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
But what other company doesn't blow it's own horn to increase sales? There's a lot of good articles there too that inform rather than push their products.
They have from the outset claimed they make their nutrients for pot while GH and everyone else is still hiding behind their claims that they grow veggies and flowers. Call GH and tell them you are having trouble with your pot garden and they hang up. Call AN and they'll gladly discuss pot farming with you.
As soon as the US pulls pot off schedule 1 all those hypocrites will be flogging their crap for pot too and be stocking Walmart shelves with it.
AN makes all their products in Canada where they began or the US now. They donate nutes and money to worthy causes and support growers efforts to get pot legal. GH etc have actively been involved in repressing legalization efforts and now that Scotts/Mon$atan/Bayer own them, Botanicare and Gavita do you really want to support companies like that? Not you in particular but growers in general.
Sure bottled nutes suck and you're paying a lot more than you should for water yadda-yadda but if you're going to use nutes like that then get ones that are helping our kind instead of holding us back why not.
I don't shop at places like Walmart, eat at McDees or any fast food joints, won't buy Heinz anymore because they pulled out of Canada and the new French's ketchup tastes just the same if not better and French's is using 100% Canadian tomatoes buying them from all the farmers that Heinz left in the lurch. The list of companies I will not knowingly buy stuff from is a long one.
I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I do have principles about fair play and treating people as I would like to be treated. AN isn't perfect either but IMO they are less imperfect than most of the others.
Lola Grows
Well-Known Member
Would you suggest humidity at 40 or even lower?
Lola Grows
Well-Known Member
Which powered nutrients are best ? I currently use liquid AN
Lola Grows
Well-Known Member
Omg!! Is there a sisterhood thread?? That would be so perfect!! LolCareful or the sisterhood will get you.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure about powdered nutes. I'm using the AN 3 - part now. I was using Sensi grow for veg and the Connoisseur for flowering but with the nute burn/toxic salts buildup I was getting in later flowering I thought the Connie was supplying too much N so went back to the 3 - part so I could better control how much N they got.
Now I'm pretty sure that it has more to do with my RH being so low all the time as I had a bit of burn with this crop too tho no wheres near as bad. For 10 months of the year I have a hard time keeping the RH over 25% so while the plants are vegging they are loading up on extra nutes and by the time I'm half way thru flowering it's getting critical and leaves start burning.
The only powdered nute I use is Big Bud. It has a lot longer shelf life than the liquid one and I can't use up even a 1L bottle before it goes bad. Got myself a 500g can of BB for $85 a while back and have at least 3/4 left after this grow of 27 med size to small plants.
A person can always buy the raw nutrient salts and mix their own up with a bunch of complicated formulas but if you're only doing a personal grow of a few plants it's a lot of bother. I have a diploma in chemistry and don't want to mess with it.
I did do my first hydro grow about '83 using base salts but there wasn't much out there back then for pre-mixed nutes.Good liquid nutes come with extras like amino acids and have all their trace elements in a chelated form for better absorption and buffers or pH control like the AN pH Perfect lines.
People grow all sorts of good pot using all sorts of nutes and techniques and not a one of them is "The One" Kinda like religion which some people treat growing like.
I can grow in DWC without hardly thinking about it but with soil/soilless it seems I'm always fussing with stuff and I like it simple and easy. Way better yields with DWC for me too so I have to get back into that.
Lola Grows
Well-Known Member
Wow !! I was still in elementary school. I have soooooo much to learn!! I'm trying out the Lucas formula ( during flowering)but I don't wanna run into a N deficiency so maybe I should switch back & add the grow.I'm not sure about powdered nutes. I'm using the AN 3 - part now. I was using Sensi grow for veg and the Connoisseur for flowering but with the nute burn/toxic salts buildup I was getting in later flowering I thought the Connie was supplying too much N so went back to the 3 - part so I could better control how much N they got.
Now I'm pretty sure that it has more to do with my RH being so low all the time as I had a bit of burn with this crop too tho no wheres near as bad. For 10 months of the year I have a hard time keeping the RH over 25% so while the plants are vegging they are loading up on extra nutes and by the time I'm half way thru flowering it's getting critical and leaves start burning.
The only powdered nute I use is Big Bud. It has a lot longer shelf life than the liquid one and I can't use up even a 1L bottle before it goes bad. Got myself a 500g can of BB for $85 a while back and have at least 3/4 left after this grow of 27 med size to small plants.
A person can always buy the raw nutrient salts and mix their own up with a bunch of complicated formulas but if you're only doing a personal grow of a few plants it's a lot of bother. I have a diploma in chemistry and don't want to mess with it.
Good liquid nutes come with extras like amino acids and have all their trace elements in a chelated form for better absorption and buffers or pH control like the AN pH Perfect lines.
People grow all sorts of good pot using all sorts of nutes and techniques and not a one of them is "The One" Kinda like religion which some people treat growing like.
I can grow in DWC without hardly thinking about it but with soil/soilless it seems I'm always fussing with stuff and I like it simple and easy. Way better yields with DWC for me too so I have to get back into that.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
How far along in flowering are you? The plants need lots of all nutes for the first 3 weeks as they go thru stretch but when that stops they slow way down in the amount they need and limiting N using Lucas methods seems to work pretty good but I've only tried this one grow so far. My next DWC grow will be done that way. I usually don't change nutes but once during a DWC grow. Right after the stretch when I would use the bloom mix but was always using too much N I believe. With the 3 - part nutes I can control it much better.
One thing about growing pot for a hobby is there is always new things to learn and new things to try. Every grow I do has some sort of experiment going on. So far I haven't screwed up too badly but some grows are definitely better than others.
Lola Grows
Well-Known Member
I'm on day 29 of flowering. So far everything is going ok with the Lucas Formula I just didn't want to end up with a deficiency this late ( moment of panic) plus so many say the green stuff ( grow ) is just a waste of money. I have it just didn't use it when I started flowering.How far along in flowering are you? The plants need lots of all nutes for the first 3 weeks as they go thru stretch but when that stops they slow way down in the amount they need and limiting N using Lucas methods seems to work pretty good but I've only tried this one grow so far. My next DWC grow will be done that way. I usually don't change nutes but once during a DWC grow. Right after the stretch when I would use the bloom mix but was always using too much N I believe. With the 3 - part nutes I can control it much better.
One thing about growing pot for a hobby is there is always new things to learn and new things to try. Every grow I do has some sort of experiment going on. So far I haven't screwed up too badly but some grows are definitely better than others.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
First thing you'll see if your N is too low is the older fan leaves yellowing. As you are starting your 5th week of flower it would not be a bad thing to be seeing that any time now as long as it doesn't rapidly spread within a few days to most of the larger fans. Pot naturally starts to pull it's nutes from the older leaves to support itself near the end. If the leaves are solid green to the end it's because they are getting fed a bit too much N or maybe lots too much. The other nutrients and minerals in tap water also contribute to this buildup. If it is lots too much the leaves often get thick and start to show chlorosis and then necrosis that doesn't look the same as regular nute burn but basically is the same. Just too much nutrient salts in the leaves and it desiccates them. They dry right up and crumble easily where with normal end-of-life yellowing the leaves don't thicken and stay soft and pliable until they start turning brown and falling off. I take them off when they are all yellow and have nothing left to offer the plant.
Lola Grows
Well-Known Member
So far I've had one leaf that died way at the bottom ( it dried up and looked crunchy so I pulled it off) I also have a bit of nutrient burn at the tips ( not much at all ) I just figured I didn't feed enough so the plant took from that leaf.. all the other ones feel soft ( this happened in week 2 of flowering) I'll keep my out for N deficiency .
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
I like 40% and suggest that as a "set" point for dehuey's. I don't "like" less but, know several serious growers, including a good sized commercial op out west that does. Keep in mind they have dialed in their feeding rates for that. The commercial op is computer controlled and monitored constantly. They set at 35%....The fear of PM in a large, enclosed, high plant count facility.....Is a serious motivator..... You can loose whole crops.....
I have a friend who ran 50% for years. He has stepped back to 45 and then to 40, in an effort to stay ahead of the new pervasive PM that seems to have taken hold in our state after legalized Medical. Yes, I do blame MM growing by the increase of and the lack of skill by many. I also know of cuttings and clones from the west coming in, carrying this seemingly hardier strain of PM here.
He now runs PM free and is happier with his overall results. After his dial in..
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
An interesting position to be sure.
Yes AN works but, is seriously over priced and watered down. I find it sad that a company can have the same ingr. at differing amounts - in different bottles and names, and charge differing prices for the products. They have changed some after being called out on that one......But for most part, they still suck ass and your paying to much for to little....
G&H has a cpl products I like (d). The Flora Nova line had it's place.
I like the CALi MAGic as it's not based on Ca Nitrate and has a lower N value. others have changed their Ca/Mg formula's to match as the market demanded. Some not and the folks that use the higher N value Ca/Mg's - use that N value in their figuring.
Botanicare has 2 of the best lines around for MM growing in my book. KIND and PRO are fantastic lines. Infinitely adjustable and KIND contains more Ca, Mg and S then others - Helps MJ growing.
Hesi has a great base line and boosting system. Like some others, they have parts that you don't need or can supply by another far cheaper choice.
Canna is another great choice. High priced and like Hesi in ways. (They have been at war with each other for years on things like formulations and lawsuits over who has the right to use what name for what product - who came up with that first....)
AN is surely not alone in the too many products and over priced thing.....H&G, Cyco, I mean all you have to do is go into a "completely stocked grow shop" and you can be lost looking at all the crap!
Many of those make the same style overblown claims thing that AN does.
In the end. Monsanto does NOT own Scotts or have any say over what Scotts does or it's formulations. Lets be real here. Scott's is BS and I don't like them. Being a farmer, I hate Monsatan much more! But it's business, plain and simple why Scott's bought these other companies. MONEY! They wanted into a section of the business they don't have nor have they gone after. MM growing. They are not changing "actual nutrient formulations" of these brands. They have changed source's of simple things like dye's used in G&H lines - I have watched several growers in our little "co-op" go to Botanicare's KIND line and dial in with rather eye opening results! It motivated me to actually begin some testing and tuning of KIND in some runs. First time I've gone back to any synthetic in Mmmm - 6 years.... The bulk of what I do is still organic.....But I must say, I'm impressed with what you can do with KIND and a bit of advanced trickery in bloom supplementing....
I will go so far as to say - I recommend at least trying the KIND line.
As for Scott's ties to Monsatan. They are working together on turf research in several area's - organic is a big area as Monsatan wants to get into that area and they supply big research dollars that benefit Scot's as they want into the same area. This is also a minor reason they bought G&H and Bot. They got their research in those area's as part of the sale.
For many years Scotts has been and is, Monsanto's exclusive agent for the marketing and distribution of consumer Roundup.
This brings up the scariest part of the relationship. Monsatan is out of the testing phase with a "roundup ready turf grass". While the far(t) left fears that the grass will mix with natural grasses all around the world. What I see as the most scary part. Is that Monsatan could start suing you for being in possession of it's "property" if you collect the seed from your lawn and use it. Your buddy across the street has their RR GMO grass and it pollinated your grass and you collected the seeds. Your now in possession of "their" patented product.
They did that all over the nation with their RR Soy beans. Your neighbor would plant their beans and they would pollinate your fields. You would collect or hold back some of those seeds to clean and plant next year. BOOM, you got sued! Fucking Monsatan would have literally, (we called them seed Nazi's or Monsatan's Gestapo) have people watching you harvest and watch your home to see if you attempted to clean seeds for reuse. Their pollen pollinated your plants from seeds that were NOT theirs. The result was now deemed "their" property as the GMO was now in your seeds.
Thank republicans for allowing the changes to laws, so that Monsatan could do that!
I might hate Monsatan, I might dislike Scott's. But I can't get over the fact that I'll choose KIND or Pro over an AN product...
Opinions are what they are..eh?
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