The Truth About Flushing

[mr sunshine]

Love the fall colors. Largely it's chloroplasts breaking down but ok and?

Pouring water vs pouring water, which one is harder? lol

Mixing up nutes is more work than pouring distilled water... I think this may be a communication breakdown here surely you cannot be arguing that pouring water is harder than pouring water that you spent time to mix up ec ph etc?

Washing away nutes vs what, continuing to add more nutes? Which one is wasteful? My plants are done with growth at the point of flush. Others start flushing while they still have white pistils but I don't start flush until I could take the plants and they'd be "done" or ripe.

How are you defining inefficiency?

Rationing plant food by denying any feeding supplementation at the end of growth is more economically efficient 100fold than continuing to deplete the same food stores from containers, at some point they are going to run out. They aren't running out when I'm not using them.

But you pour nutrients anyway, then you do extra.

I'd rather those nutrients stay I'm my dirt for the next run. I'll find a way to use it

I'm defining inefficiency by you doing extra things that you don't have to do, that doesn't make a difference anyway.

 

[CannaBruh]

But you pour nutrients anyway, then you do extra.

I'd rather those nutrients stay I'm my dirt for the next run. I'll find a way to use it

I'm defining inefficiency by you doing extra things that you don't have to do, that doesn't make a difference anyway.

What are you talking about "but you pour nutrients anyway, then you do extra"

you have completely lost me


....I see you're still talking about soil and failed to take my advice to go back and read so you can comment within the context of what is being discussed by myself as my methods... soil has nada to do with it, maybe that's your confusion.


What "extra things" (please define what that even means) huh?

Doesn't make a difference, but they're extra...welp to anyone who has kept up let's have a puff.

 

[mr sunshine]

What are you talking about "but you pour nutrients anyway, then you do extra"

you have completely lost me


....I see you're still talking about soil and failed to take my advice to go back and read so you can comment within the context of what is being discussed by myself as my methods... soil has nada to do with it, maybe that's your confusion.

Yea, I'm talking about soil, That's all I grow in. Anything else, I wouldn't know about. Do you grow on coco or something?
Yesterday you were saying you let the plant finish then you flush i took that as you feed to the end then you flush. Not a huge deal, outside. But in a house, in a room. In a bath tub? just something that doesn't need to be done. Not having to do something is easier then having to do something? Can we agree on that ?

 

[CannaBruh]

Yea, I'm talking about soil, That's all I grow in. Anything else, I wouldn't know about. Do you grow on coco or something?
Yesterday you were saying you let the plant finish then you flush i took that as you feed to the end then you flush. Not a huge deal, outside. But in a house, in a room. In a bath tub? just something that doesn't need to be done. Not having to do something is easier then having to do something? Can we agree on that ?

For this discussion I'm talking DWC, but the same methods could be applied to coco or other soil-less. I haven't used soil as a primary indoor medium since before 2010.

What are you referring to with "something that doesn't need to be done" what is the something?

Plants need water, whether we feed those last moments of life or not, they need water. If I just dump reservoirs they will droop and eventually die, if you stop watering soil the soil will dry the plants will droop and then die if no water is added.

So, from that I can conclude that you must not be referring to watering as "something" can you confirm?

So to say that watering is something that doesn't need to be done, I would disagree. This watering that is necessary to sustain life in parallel acts as my flush when there is no supplemental food or nutes added.

This is why I thought you were being silly saying I am doing more. By watering? I have to water anyway or they die, but by someone feeding, they are mixing food, doing more work than I who is simply pouring the water.

 

[mr sunshine]

For this discussion I'm talking DWC, but the same methods could be applied to coco or other soil-less. I haven't used soil as a primary indoor medium since before 2010.

What are you referring to with "something that doesn't need to be done" what is the something?

Plants need water, whether we feed those last moments of life or not, they need water. If I just dump reservoirs they will droop and eventually die, if you stop watering soil the soil will dry the plants will droop and then die if no water is added.

So, from that I can conclude that you must not be referring to watering as "something" can you confirm?

So to say that watering is something that doesn't need to be done, I would disagree. This watering that is necessary to sustain life in parallel acts as my flush when there is no supplemental food or nutes added.

This is why I thought you were being silly saying I am doing more. By watering? I have to water anyway or they die, but by someone feeding, they are mixing food, doing more work than I who is simply pouring the water.

The something I keep talking about is flushing in soil, completely unnecessary. I thought we were just talking about growing in soil, I don't know anything about deep water culture so I can't comment on it.

 

[Budley Doright]

Has anyone else noticed those against flushing or leaching have never tried it?

I see it all time.

Those that have flushed and leached noticed a difference against when they didn't?

It is plausible to test a hypothesis before making a conclusion.

Scientific method and all that jazz.

But hey, what do I know?

I'm just some guy that likes to see for myself instead of just following the herd.

I've tried a few times actually and noticed a difference in taste once but I used a god awful additive and a one week flushvwith pure water and the taste was gone, the other times there was no noticeable difference. On a side note some of the ones I have left and not fed actually seem to go dormant after two weeks.

 

[greg nr]

I would like them to articulate how it works. I understand it removes excess salt from the medium.

I wanted one of the pro "flushing" guys to explain how an immobile nutrient can be removed and that the fade isn't nutrients being removed but merely being moved from one part of the plant to the part they smoke.

I think the first thing that needs to be proved or disproved is "does it work". Sure, we have anecdotal evidence on both sides, but nobody has actually measured the results in a lab under supervised grows.

Set up three grows, one full organic with only a normal organic no-till schedule until the end. Another would be full synthetic at a typical feed schedule until flush. And the last would be the same synthetic nute feed schedule but with no flush at the end (just normal water only for last weeks).

Or something similar to level the variables. All with the same strains and lights.

Then analyze the buds in a lab. Full gc workup. Check the calories and emissions from the burn. Whatever makes sense. See if a blind panel would rate any harsh or unpleasant.

Once you prove there is a difference, you can work on explaining why.

But all we have is well dug in positions a trench apart. Both sides believe they are right, and the funny part is they both might be.

 

[CannaBruh]

@greg nr with some exception to your us them scenario in that many have actually done the due diligence to go outside the bounds of our dug in positions and try new things to either disprove what we think or to just play around and experiment. What to say to those who have done the work, and found a preference? Who needs a lab when I like it this way, will lab results convince me to like the other way when my bio-assay and observations have led me in a certain direction? Perhaps, but GC is pricey, let me know when I can have a mass-spec GC on my bench for the cost of a Chinese enail.

 

[greg nr]

@greg nr with some exception to your us them scenario in that many have actually done the due diligence to go outside the bounds of our dug in positions and try new things to either disprove what we think or to just play around and experiment. What to say to those who have done the work, and found a preference? Who needs a lab when I like it this way, will lab results convince me to like the other way when my bio-assay and observations have led me in a certain direction? Perhaps, but GC is pricey, let me know when I can have a mass-spec GC on my bench for the cost of a Chinese enail.

Absolutely agree. I was just responding to the poster who wanted an explanation of why it worked.

If it works for the way you grow, then that's all that matters, until somebody wants a scientific answer. Then they have to spend the money or live with what they believe.

 

[Chunky Stool]

Putting words in my mouth?

Next step is personal attacks.

Are you implying their aren't any?

I know there are plenty of members that grow that aren't.

Most of us actually have medical or psychological reasons for MMJ.

"Most of us" would imply a majority, yes? Once again you have made a shitty assumption.
Or are you going to deny that too?
I'm done with you.

 

[Budley Doright]

Putting words in my mouth?

Next step is personal attacks.

Are you implying their aren't any?

I know there are plenty of members that grow that aren't.

Most of us actually have medical or psychological reasons for MMJ.

I like to get high .

 

[Budley Doright]

"Most of us" would imply a majority, yes? Once again you have made a shitty assumption.
Or are you going to deny that too?
I'm done with you.

Yes that's what that would imply ..... I'm sure that yes lots here partake for medical reasons but honestly i started at 14 and liked it and I still like it, does it relieve the back pain I spent two years on disibility with?.....well I'm not sure, id have to quit to find out lol. Oh and in a side note, when I fell off the ladder my boss decided to stop holding for a second, luckily I had an ounce in my pants to give him and I believe it help that my balls didn't get crushed lol.

 

[whitebb2727]

Beings that my entire medium is water/air, flushing (ideally) removes all traces of food/nutrients/salts etc from the reservoir.

Does that suffice your articulation requirement?

Not really.

I understand what it does to the reservoir.

I want someone to articulate what it does good for the plant. Immobile can't be moved and mobile nutrients move from old growth to new growth. (Fade).

How's that work?

 

[whitebb2727]

I wonder why horticulturalist do it then?

I wonder why they don't just keep feeding, I mean that would be more money for my LHS but he swears by it.

My Grandparents and Father farmed, I have not. I learn from those that have done or are doing, I steer clear of drug addicts trying to give me information.

Horticulturist do when they screw up and need to remove salts from the soil.

How do you know who is a drug addict.

Fyi. I not only grow pot but grow enough vegetables for a family of 5 for the whole year in a no till organic garden.

I grew up working farms thousands of acres. Nutrients are applied from soil test as not to ruin the environment by washing a shit load of unnecessary nutrients into the water supply.

Its rare to need to leech unless someone screwed up. When you are talking thousands of acres that extra fertilizer really adds up and the extra cost of leeching a screw up cost even more.

 

[whitebb2727]

Love the fall colors. Largely it's chloroplasts breaking down but ok and?

Pouring water vs pouring water, which one is harder? lol

Mixing up nutes is more work than pouring distilled water... I think this may be a communication breakdown here surely you cannot be arguing that pouring water is harder than pouring water that you spent time to mix up ec ph etc?

Washing away nutes vs what, continuing to add more nutes? Which one is wasteful? My plants are done with growth at the point of flush. Others start flushing while they still have white pistils but I don't start flush until I could take the plants and they'd be "done" or ripe.

How are you defining inefficiency?

Rationing plant food by denying any feeding supplementation at the end of growth is more economically efficient 100fold than continuing to deplete the same food stores from containers, at some point they are going to run out. They aren't running out when I'm not using them.

True if its genetic fall colors. If you force the fade it is deficiency.

 

[whitebb2727]

I think the first thing that needs to be proved or disproved is "does it work". Sure, we have anecdotal evidence on both sides, but nobody has actually measured the results in a lab under supervised grows.

Set up three grows, one full organic with only a normal organic no-till schedule until the end. Another would be full synthetic at a typical feed schedule until flush. And the last would be the same synthetic nute feed schedule but with no flush at the end (just normal water only for last weeks).

Or something similar to level the variables. All with the same strains and lights.

Then analyze the buds in a lab. Full gc workup. Check the calories and emissions from the burn. Whatever makes sense. See if a blind panel would rate any harsh or unpleasant.

Once you prove there is a difference, you can work on explaining why.

But all we have is well dug in positions a trench apart. Both sides believe they are right, and the funny part is they both might be.

Ill dig it up if I can find it.

There are studies for various crops and cannabis. High feed lower quality. Low or flushed nutrients were lesser quality. Moderate feed all the way was the best.

Here is a study.
content://media/external/file/2649




Ill dig up more. Give me a day or two.

 

[whitebb2727]

 

[whitebb2727]

Absolutely agree. I was just responding to the poster who wanted an explanation of why it worked.

If it works for the way you grow, then that's all that matters, until somebody wants a scientific answer. Then they have to spend the money or live with what they believe.

I don't talk out my ass.

Anything I claim has bases to it and I research a lot.

Members that k ow me here know I generally know what I'm talking about.

 

[whitebb2727]

Its best to find optimal dose not starve them.

 

[Enigma]

"Most of us" would imply a majority, yes? Once again you have made a shitty assumption.
Or are you going to deny that too?
I'm done with you.

Maybe I should rephrase as I know more medical than recreational smokers, a select few of us have medical reasons.

Does it sit better?