Day 33 Flower Defiency?

[kazumax626]

Day 33 flower ton of leaves turning yellow and shriveling. Running 8 cobs in 2x4x5 at around 350 watts.

I'm pretty sure i light burned the whole canopy at the start of flower.

Avg temp 82 F (I know it bad)
PH runoff 6.8 when watered with 6.4
Been feeding aboout 1k PPM PK nutrient.

 

[Johnei]

Wow you really gave those girls a sun tan.



They are in full feeding mode. (Especially with the light intensity, and temperature.)

Up the food a bit. This is why your pH rises.

and a small small small small small small amount of epsom salts OR CalMg added.

Don't burn the shit out of them and go overboard on what I say, better smaller increases over few times to get the sweet spot than fry them, you already took them in one direction, now it's not good to just slam them in the other to compensate and try to fix, so be gentle. They are hungry.

Magnesium is burned up in photosynthesis, you are in strong photosynthesis mode with the light intensity and heat. they need stronger main balanced nutrient, and tiny Mg boost for green up and eficient photosynthesis again.

 

[kazumax626]

Haha, yeah I toasted them pretty badly. I'm currently using Bat guano (0-7-0) and Langbeinite to feed.

I will go light on the feeding and ramp up, thanks for the advice!

 

[Johnei]

No problem.

Good luck.

Still have time to stack on the weight.

 

[Johnei]

Exactly what I wrote up there still the same except the part where I wrote 'complete balanced nutrient', I should have written:

Complete balanced Bloom nutrient solution

just to make sure for you; still use bloom formula of course at this stage, complete nutrient that has all NPK Ca Mg and trace minerals, not just a PK boost.
Ok, cu.

 

[im4satori]

@Johnei has it right

your plants look nice

looks like good genetics

but you fertilizer mix is light on N and magnesium

I wouldn't go giving it a bunch of N now cuz your far into bloom and I wouldn't spray anything

id t water in 1 tsp Epsom salt per gallon 1x and then top dress 2 cups earth worm castings

and then 1/4 tsp Epsom salt per gallon evry watering there after

if you have calmag you could use 4mls per gallon every other to add a wee bit of N, calcium, magnesium and iron

go get you a balance and complete fertilizer for your next grow

if you want suggestions just ask

 

[Po boy]

i agree with im4satori, light on N and Mg. otherwise looking fine!

 

[kazumax626]

@Johnei has it right

your plants look nice

looks like good genetics

but you fertilizer mix is light on N and magnesium

I wouldn't go giving it a bunch of N now cuz your far into bloom and I wouldn't spray anything

id t water in 1 tsp Epsom salt per gallon 1x and then top dress 2 cups earth worm castings

and then 1/4 tsp Epsom salt per gallon evry watering there after

if you have calmag you could use 4mls per gallon every other to add a wee bit of N, calcium, magnesium and iron

go get you a balance and complete fertilizer for your next grow

if you want suggestions just ask

I would love suggestion on organic ferts. This is my first grow. I did pretty well up to week 2 of flower before stuff hit the fan. I was really weak on the fertilizer regimen. Fed once a week using compost tea with fish hydroylstate/bat guano/fulvic acid/kelp. I did feed weak cal/mag every other watering but had ph issues with a 7.2 runoff. Also had my 400 watt cob led at 12" bleaching the hell out of the plants. The heat wave in california didn't really help either. Great learning experience though.

The soil I used was Ocean Forrest amended with Biochar/Azomite/Worm castings/perlite/diamecoeus earth in the top inch for bugs and silica.


Here a pic 2 weeks ago. Plants are 2 jack herer and 2 peppermint kush. I had 8 plants, 2 double daze and 2 Hoa bac, but they were all male =(

 

[im4satori]

organic fertilizer?

I wouldnt recommend organic fertilizer

if your going organic then your looking at soil amendments ...building your own soil

if you want to use a complete and well balanced fertilizer I could suggest somethings but there not organic

I wouldn't use the fox farm nutes ...that's fo sure... the soils great but the nutes not so much

 

[Johnei]

7.2 runoff is indication no food, absolutely no food in the medium, and when plants usually feed off of acidic nutrients sucking it up, the pH will rise as salts in the medium go down, like I mentioned up there, up the food. You're leaning too much on the light side, it's good to be careful this will serve you well to not fry plants in your future grow life, but the plants need balanced complete bloom fertilizer with such intense light and good 80's+ warmth temps you have in there. low N, but stil need N.. medium P, high K....high Mg.. this is what they need right now for them to continue to fuel bud growth and get fat. find something like this.. good organic fertilizer line is:
Earth Juice
Roots Organics

I hope you dont put that bat guano in hot water or just mix and feed, get 10 dollar aquarium air pump, a small bucket, and aquarium air stone to bubble it for 24hrs, then feed. trust me.

add 2 tablespoons of dolomite powder, not pellets, per gal. of soil next time and you wil never have ph problems again and never have to ph again in soil

anything you need help with, I'm here grow bro.

Langbaenite is Sulfur Potassium Magnesium, when u brew this guano for 24 hrs, and i would only use 1 gal of water when bubbling the guano in the bucket, the less the water, the more your little air pump with be enough to fill the bucket with good air bubbles from cheap small pump, 2gals?water and its not enough oxygen and guano make bad suff in anaerobic no oxygen conditions.. so use 1gal water and brew the guano with a tablespoon of langbaenite, only 24hrs bubbling brew, no longer! then feed. this is good boost.

satori;s advice up there very good about the CalMg and epsom also, they need this bad.
edit-(oh, hey satori..lol) ok, handoff... im out. sleeeep.

 

[im4satori]

ya Ive not looked at the liquid organic nutes and im not sure if there soluble or whatever

and ive not been growing organic long enough to be giving anyone else directions on organics lol

 

[Johnei]

yeah those 2 lines are high quality. for someone not wanting to go the whole route of bulding a proper soil, they'll do well, compared to most other organic bottled shit out there, ya know.

(Building a working live soil and understanding it's function, and processes etc. with the microlife etc. and make it work over n over, I wouldn't recommend to new growers, but it's up to him... can still do it.

 

[Johnei]

(his post changed, the soil ammendments list was not there at the time of me writing, this is the slght confusion.)

 

[im4satori]

I just finished up a grow in fox farm oean forest

if I was to start with it again

id add 4 oz gypsum per cubic ft before hand

and water 1/4 tsp Epsom per gallon salt every other watering

calcium and magnesium where the first things to go out
otherwise it was good for 6 +weeks after potting

 

[kazumax626]

When I make the teas i use a 18 watt air pump. Lot of great information, did not know ph goes up as nutrients go down. I been using Neptune Harvest 2-4-1 fish hydrolysate as my base fertilizer, I guess I just didn't use enough.

I actually build soil all time for my vegetable garden, I have a batch being composted right now for my next grow . Hopefully i won't need to add any extra nutrients.

Thank you again all for the awesome help.

 

[Johnei]

Fish Hydrolysate is amazing food for growing beneficial fungi and bacteria.. You dont need or use molasses for example when making a tea with the stuff.. I would bubble that base nutrient, with the guano, and langbaenite for 36-48hrs then feed. If not using fish hydrolysate, then only a 24hr brew, and use a small amount of molasses. Actually, every tea always ever made, should have some worm castings in there is also for best results.
Here, take a look at this, some very interesting stuff here... he doesn't use guanos in his teas but all the info is very pertinent to what we do...
microbeorganics.com
^if you have never seen this site, it is an eye opener and so very informative.

Also this is very old well know recipe thought may be interested, if you've never seen, might as well post here...
There is some info and recipe's using Neptune Harvest in here. Look down below Recipe#5 Don't need follow precicely, all this just to give good ideas...

 

[Johnei]

Here are some tried and true recipes for getting started in organic growing. Pick one of the first two soiless mix recipes for your grow medium. Then, choose a nutrient recipe that will work best for what you have available.

Enjoy...

Here are two very good organic soiless mixes...

LC's Mix is great for any stage of growth. You can germ seeds in it, grow mothers in it, root clones in it as well as veg and flower in it.

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:

5 parts Canadian Sphagnum Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts worm castings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
...Wal-Mart now sells worm castings.

Or, if you use Pro Mix, Sunshine Mix or Fox Farm mixes...

LC's Soiless Mix #2:

6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up) / Fox Farm Ocean Forest or Light Warrior
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered (NOT PELLETED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime. The dolomite lime is for Ca. and Mg. not just to adjust the PH of the soil.

But, a "part" can be anything from a tablespoon to a five gallon bucket. Just use the same item for all of the "parts".

Now for the plants organic food source

Choose one of these organic plant food recipes to add to LC's Soiless Mix.

RECIPE #1

If you want to use organic nutrients like Blood meal, Bone meal and Kelp meal...

1 tablespoon Blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons Bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
(OPTIONAL) 1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.

Mix all the dry nutrients into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it. Use Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the nutrients and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.

With this recipe, all you need to do is add plain water until harvest.

When I'm working with seeds, I punch a hole in the bottom of 16 ounce cups and fill them with plain LC's Mix. Lightly wet the mix in the cups and germinate one seed in each cup. At the same time I mix enough LC's mix along with the blood/bone/kelp to fill all the 3 gallon flower pots I'm going to use for the grow. After about two weeks, the seedlings and the blood/bone/kelp mix are ready. I transplant the seedlings into the 3 gallon pots and just add water until harvest.
When you go to flower and pull up the males, save the mix in the pots. It is ready to be used again immediately. Just remove the root ball and transplant another seedling into it.

RECIPE #2

If you want to use guano in your soil mix...
Bongaloid's Guano Mix.
Use all these items combined with one gallon of soil mix.

1/3C hi N Guano Mexican Bat Guano or Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/2C hi P Guano (Jamaican or Indonesian Bat Guano)
1TBS Kelp Meal
(OPTIONAL) 1TBS Jersey Greensand

RECIPE #3 (My favorite)
If you want to use guano tea and kelp...

Guano Tea and Kelp:

Seedlings less than 1 month old nutrient tea mix

Mix 1 cup earthworm castings into 5 gallons of water to make the tea. Add 5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses.
Use it to water your seedlings with every 2nd or 3rd watering.

Veg mix-

1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)

(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)

Mix with water @ 1 cup of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.

To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Maxicrop or Neptune's Harvest liquid seaweed.
5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses

Use it to water with every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:

2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)

(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)

Mix with water @ 2 cups of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.

To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Maxicrop or Neptune's Harvest liquid seaweed.
5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with EVERY watering.

You can use queen size knee high nylon stockings for tea bags. 3 pair for a dollar at the dollar store. Tell 'em you use them for paint strainers. Put the recommended tea in the stocking, tie a loop knot in it and hang it in your tea bucket. The tea should look like a mud puddle. Agitate the bag in the water vigorously. An aquarium pump and air stone will dissolve oxygen into the solution and keep the good bacteria (microherd) alive and thriving. Let it bubble a day or two before you use it. If you find you are making too much tea and having to throw it out, use 2 1/2 gallons of water and cut the nute amount by half.

 

[Johnei]

RECIPE #4
Three Little Birds Method
40 gallons used soil
4 cups alfalfa meal
4 cups bone meal
4 cups kelp meal
4 cups powdered dolomite lime
30 pound bag of earthworm castings . . .
That’s the basic recipe . . .
However we also like to use
4 cups of Greensand
4 cups of Rock Phosphate
4 cups of diatomaceous earth


RECIPE #5
Fish and Seaweed (This is sooo easy)
1 capful is 1 TB or 15 ml.

For veg growth…
1 capful 5-1-1 Fish Emulsion
1 capful Neptune's Harvest 0-0-1 Seaweed or Maxicrop liquid
1 gallon H2O

For early flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-3-1 Fish/Seaweed
1 gallon H2O

For mid to late flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-4-1 Fish
1 gallon H2O


And now for some more good tips...

Seed Germination

First, you'll need some LC's Mix
I use Sunleaves Super Starter Plugs. They are pre-moistened. I drop one seed down in the hole. Gently push them to the bottom of the hole. No need to cover the hole.
I use a 5.5" X 5.5" square Kord pot or any 1 to 3 quart nursery pot and fill it full to the top with the LC's Mix. Don't pack it. Dig out enough soil mix to place one plug into one pot of mix about level with the top of the mix in the pot.
Set the seed in the plug in the mix in the pot aside in a 75 to 85 degree well lit space until the seedlings sprout.
Don't water it, sing to it, piss on it or anything else that will kill it with what you may think is kindness.

Listen up, this is important...
When the leaves of the seedlings are about one inch above the top of the plug, push the plug down into the LC's mix until the seedling leaves are just below the top of the pot. Now use some fresh LC's Mix and gently pack it around the stem of the seedling all the way up to the first leaves. When finished, the mix should be level across the top just below the bottom of the leaves a millimeter or two. Not all seeds will sprout at the same time so you will have to do this at different times. If you don't push the plugs down and support the stems with mix, they will fall over and die. If the stems continue to stretch you can push the plugs down further into the mix. These little suckers are robust below the surface of the mix. Don't be afraid of pushing them down gently.
The moisture in the mix should be plenty for several days. Don't let it completely dry out or soak it down with water. Add no nutes to the mix for about two weeks.
Your seedlings can stay in these pots for 2 to 4 weeks and then can be transplanted into a grow medium rich in organic food like blood/bone/kelp.
I hope this helps get you started. It's worked for me many hundreds of times.

Organic pH issues

I hear a lot of people asking or talking about the pH of their organic soil mix or organic nute solution and how they might correct or adjust it. pH in organics is not an issue like it is in synthetic growing.
The best place to settle the pH issues in organics is within the grow medium. A "living" medium rich in humates (humus) is the place to start. Humates and bacteria work to "buffer" the pH of organic mediums and the nutes you pour (or mix) into it.
Humates come from compost, worm castings and bottled humus. If you use a peat based medum, use dolomite lime to raise the pH of the acidic peat. Dolomite should be used in any soil or soiless medium to provide magnesium and calcium. But since we are talking about pH here, I'll mention dolomite lime's pH correction benefits.
A medium of coir has a pH near neutral (or 7.0). But humates are still neded to allow uptake of organic nutrients that are outside a near neutral pH range.
With an active medium rich in humates you can pour in nutes like fish, Earth Juice and guano teas way outside the optimum pH range without worry. The humus and bacteria will allow the nutes to be taken up through the roots, even at such an extreme pH reading.
So throw those pH meters away folks and enjoy the ease and safety of organic gardening.

Chlorine tap water

Just a word of caution for you organic heads out there...
If you are tapped onto a municipal water supply that uses chlorine to kill bacteria in the water, it'll do the same thing to the bacteria (microherd) in your organic food source.
Always bubble your municipal water in an open container (5 gallon bucket) for 24 hours before adding ANYTHING organic to it.

Flushing

There is absolutely no reason to "flush" organic nute solutions from your soil mix. In an organic grow, the plants don't take up the organic nutes (guano, bone, blood or kelp). The bacteria eat the organic nutes and excrete food that the plant can feed off of. So the organic nutes don't need to be flushed because they never enter the plant. And besides, meals like kelp, bone and blood along with worm castings and dolomite can't be flushed from your soil mix anyway. If you use guano and seaweed, try using plain water or worm casting tea for your last watering or two so the plant can use up what's left in the soil. But drowning your soil with water isn't necessary.

Bullshit! There's no need to flush organics. -Bongaloid

pH meter? We don't need no stinking pH meter!

//END


Hope somethin in here helps you grow bro. Peace.

 

[Go go n chill]

I just finished up a grow in fox farm oean forest

if I was to start with it again

id add 4 oz gypsum per cubic ft before hand

and water 1/4 tsp Epsom per gallon salt every other watering

calcium and magnesium where the first things to go out
otherwise it was good for 6 +weeks after potting

Hey I hate to jump into a post but you said you just finished one up using Foxfarm Ocean Forest and that the calcium and magnesium were the first to go ! Do you think you can look at a picture of my plants I thought it might be a fungus but I looked up calcium deficiency and I believe you hit it right on the button I'm at week six I apologize for the blurple lighting. I did post this morning in marijuana problems

 

[Johnei]

Looks a bit overfed, just going by those few pics/leaves. which would acidify the soil from builtup, and drop ph out of calcium absorption range. This just a guess. I know the soil has ph buffering in it. Just a guess on the domino effect happening.

Hey I hate to jump into a post but you said you just finished one up using Foxfarm Ocean Forest and that the calcium and magnesium were the first to go ! Do you think you can look at a picture of my plants I thought it might be a fungus but I looked up calcium deficiency and I believe you hit it right on the button I'm at week six I apologize for the blurple lighting. I did post this morning in marijuana problems

see soil chart right side, with lower pH, Calcium uptake is locked.
Too much fertilizer makes soil acidic, the ph buffering can only work for so much, as it keeps having to nuetralize the lower acidic ph because you have overfed, it eventually runs out and no more ph buffering and soil takes on acid ph, nutrients get locked.. after a while.. a while being, about 6weeks probably in that soil. Just a guess.

which means, probably before that 6weeks aproaches, have to add more Dol.Lime to 'sweeten' that soil.. or, maybe, add extra Dol.Lime in the first place to that soil. Just a guess. I know nothing.

or..and... Don't overfeed, the Dol.Lime will last longer because it doesn't have to nuetralize so much acid, and it will last past 6weeks. Don't overfeed. The conclusion.

Good Growing.