Well (Hard) Water vs Distilled Water & use of PH down...h20 the most overlooked vital gem

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OhYesTheDopeMan

Well-Known Member
Hey,

Long time member, haven't posted in a while but I found lots of scattered info and have been having some issues so I figure this thread will help many people as I sort my issues and dial in a good blend of water...
I have taken my grows to the next level so I am trying to perfect everything.

Basically I am on well water which comes out very hard, sometimes the pH is over 8.3. I have been using pH down with good results, but the ppm comes out high sometimes also, which I overcome by using less concentrations in feedings. In the summer, I harvest enough distilled water from side split A/C units, which I have been trying to utilize. I also just learned my Ph meter calibration is messed up, but did I learn some costly lessons recently with all these factors combined. I do not have R/O because I must find a way to hook it up to a source which isn't pressurized, if anyone has an idea which hooks up into a res and pumps r/o water out or something let me know, working on it. In the meantime here are my questions, findings and research based on involuntary testing. THIS IS STRICLY SOIL related, hybrid grow, compost tea, 3 part, cal-mag, several other additives. co2, hps and good temps and air. Mixed strains.

1. Distilled water is good for flushing, but an end of harvest flushing to eliminate everything in the dirt along with a flushing agent. I sometimes call "flushing" when I feed water only once a week to give the plant a kind of break...for that I use my mix of well/distilled, ph down. And to use it with food, you need to add cal mag. I am also using it for foilar feedings, with the cal-mag added. The ppm of 0 doesn't let the soil absorb the foods. But, since the pH is perfect, I can use it for compost tea so I don't have to add pH down (acid) to my microbes killing them (counter productive)... Maybe with 1 part of well water? That sound right?

2. Since my well water is so hard (300-500) I will use 1 part distilled water to regulate the ppm (in the summer) a bit. Add food with cal-mag, then pH accordingly (its usually at 7.5 at that point). Is that being resourceful?

3. I am out of micro, I use GH 3 part. Luckily I am going to try the one for hard water this time around, from what I found they are the only ones that sell something like that part of a 3 part. Should help I hope?

4. The distilled water itself. Stupid question but since I am pumping co2 in the room, does that make my water come out with a lower pH? Couldn't decipher the science enough to answer that, but I am wondering if even my distilled is a bit shitty for the plants. From What I read, the co2 has to be in astronomical amounts to effect the water.

Feel free to chime in with anything at all. I had one batch that out of no where, after a stream of A1 everything all around, wilted. Thought it was overwatering, deficiency, temps, raised the lights. Was going nuts. Realized the calibration was fuked up, and that led me to really get to the bottom of my water habits. I have to get on finding a system other than pumping out of a faucet, I'm getting my water out of a hose. Cheers for now

Dman
 
Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
What's in your well water? Presumably cal/mag, so why add more? Cutting it with distilled could work great but you need to know your well water numbers to begin with. I see no reason to ph the water at all if it is going in soil which will very quickly buffer it to the ph of the soil. Know your soil ph, if it is good, you are good.
 
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OhYesTheDopeMan

Well-Known Member
I have way better growth since using pH down to treat the well water. My main issue is that the ppm is way too high hovering at 750ish. So I cut with distilled and add calmag to make the distilled less different. I gave distilled only to a section and they did not like it one bit.

I see your point though, the cal mag is probably only necessary when I foilar feed with distilled water.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Best results are to mix the well water and distilled or ro water down to 150 ppm or .3 ec.

After 250 ppm or .5 ec it may be necessary to add acid (ph down)

In soil you may get away with a bit higher ppm with a good amount of runoff to help wash away the salts that build up. The calcium in the water is part of the buildup. But salts attract salts so it should help.

Distilled water like ro has no buffer. The ph will change even with the air on the surface. It would require some calcium to actually hold a steady ph.

And your soil should have its own buffer. Lime or oyster shell for example. And that will buffer the ph of the water without ph adjustment if the alkalinity is not too high.

It is all about alkalinity not ph. I have relatively soft well water at .3 ec. Perfect! But it shows a ph of 8.0 out of my faucet.

I never adjust. And it all balances fine. It is important to know about alkalinity in a container Grow. Also the relationship between your water and you nutes and soil and how they all react with each other. Using amoniacal nitrogen rather than only nitrates will help lower the ph of the soil. Nitrates raise it and so does the plants uptaking.

It is all a balance.

I have acquired this information from various potting mix manufacturers like the pro mix (phorticulture) website and jacks fertilizer has an excellent tutorial. Also various Greenhouse guides and also my favorite breeder who told me my soil was acidic and to stop using ph down. Just from my pics back a couple years ago.

The ppm you listed for your well water is quite hard. I am pretty sure the suggested ppm for the GH hardwater stuff is 500 or 700 max.

Oops. I checked they say if over 200 ppm you should have it tested. And if more than 70 ppm of calcium you need the hardwater micro.

That is not a lot of calcium. I have more than that and do not have calcium problems. But I think their suggestion is for straigh hydro. In soil the buffers and CEC ( citation exchange ) are in charge of uptake. Not the soulution we pour in.


http://generalhydroponics.com/water/
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
"Citation exchange"? Sure you don't mean "cation exchange". CEC I suppose would stand for cation exchange capacity. A citation is what a cop gives you for speeding. You know, "I'm gonna hafta give you a citation, son". Just helping you out a little.

For the hard water, you can just buy a ZeroWater deionizer water pitcher. They have a large one that holds 23 cups, so should be good for a few pots, and also possibly for you to drink. Gotta keep buying new filters but what can you do huh? Better than spending hundreds on an RO system right up front. That's what I use myself, though my water is so low in salts, about 45 ppm, that I now just use it as is and use the filters for myself. I do add a little calcium ascorbate to get rid of the chlorine though. You could do the mixing thing like you were doing with the distilled water to get longer use from the filters. You can buy the pitchers in many dept stores btw, like Walmart. About $50 for the 23 cup unit with one filter included.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
"Citation exchange"? Sure you don't mean "cation exchange". CEC I suppose would stand for cation exchange capacity. A citation is what a cop gives you for speeding. You know, "I'm gonna hafta give you a citation, son". Just helping you out a little.

For the hard water, you can just buy a ZeroWater deionizer water pitcher. They have a large one that holds 23 cups, so should be good for a few pots, and also possibly for you to drink. Gotta keep buying new filters but what can you do huh? Better than spending hundreds on an RO system right up front. That's what I use myself, though my water is so low in salts, about 45 ppm, that I now just use it as is and use the filters for myself. I do add a little calcium ascorbate to get rid of the chlorine though. You could do the mixing thing like you were doing with the distilled water to get longer use from the filters. You can buy the pitchers in many dept stores btw, like Walmart. About $50 for the 23 cup unit with one filter included.
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Lol. Yes cation. You wrote me a citation for using the wrong word :-)

I don't think that pitcher is going to remove enough from the op's water. Even an ro unit would likely need the special extra price filter.
 
Tangerine_

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
If it is a salt based water softener then don't use the water at all, get the ro system and add back cal/mag. Salt based water softeners will kill you plants.
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Glad someone came in a pointed this out for the OP.

This is precisely why I opted for an RO unit. Besides the softener, our well waters PPMs can fluctuate...especially in the fall with heavy rains.

Before I bought the RO unit I was lugging water from Walmart at 40gal/wk in the winter and filling up jugs at the spring after the ice goes out. Our fresh water spring reads a constant 10ppm and the plants love it, but what a total PITA.

RO units FTW
 
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Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
Tangerine_ said:
Glad someone came in a pointed this out for the OP.

This is precisely why I opted for an RO unit. Besides the softener, our well waters PPMs can fluctuate...especially in the fall with heavy rains.

Before I bought the RO unit I was lugging water from Walmart at 40gal/wk in the winter and filling up jugs at the spring after the ice goes out. Our fresh water spring reads a constant 10ppm and the plants love it, but what a total PITA.

RO units FTW
Click to expand...
Yeah, I killed a crop in late flower once in a new house I moved into without understanding that the well water went through a salt based softener. Lesson learned!
 
blu3bird

blu3bird

Well-Known Member
OhYesTheDopeMan said:
3. I am out of micro, I use GH 3 part. Luckily I am going to try the one for hard water this time around, from what I found they are the only ones that sell something like that part of a 3 part. Should help I hope?
Click to expand...

Hell yes using their hard water micro is going to help.

Also, Ionics brand makes a single part grow and bloom for hard water.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Just don't use pure water for rooting cuttings, because it reduces rooting drastically over a light nute solution. I don't know about seed germination water, maybe the same. Haven't researched that yet. Also fluoridated water is bad for cuttings.
 
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