Not Again... Americans who can't afford their mortgage up 145%

[twostrokenut]

yeah, those dumb suckers at the bank were left with only every single penny you spent on that house, and the house itself!

idiots!

couple years payments, way cheaper than rent, wasn't insured by fannie or freddy and it ended up on the auction block and sold CHEAP. That's what is supposed to happen in a default. General Motors should have been liquidated to the highest bidder.

why are you putting desirable in quotes as if to indicate dubiousness?

the house prices literally prove that they are more desirable you simpering moron.

@ttystikk was talking about the next inevitable economic downturn and so was I....you know that though don't you troll?

You angry again today?
Tell me were daddy touched you?

You misquoted me or didnt understand my post and are now just being argumentative.

Im all for house and land price gains. I'm one of the lower middle class who has used it to gain capital.

Did you not ask "where is this housing bubble?" I am pretty sure that's where we started, you can touch me there daddy, if you want.

 

[whitebb2727]

Again, he became a billionaire NOT on the actual money people spent, but the typical, ridiculous "valuations" people put on their stocks.

Zynga (the company) has only made about 500 million from Farmville total. So how the hell is it magically worth billions?

Valuation.

Somebody makes 100 bucks one month, so they tell you they'll make 200 the next, 400 the next, 800 the next, etc. So you jack that valuation up, then sell your stock off and VOILA! Instant billionaire even though you never even made any more than half a billion at best to begin with.

Then of course 5 years later the company has no real new prospects, sales slow, the stock plummets and becomes near worthless and they start all over again.

Projections should be illegal. Period. A stock should be valued based on revenue and net profit, not some phantom valuation that has no basis in reality.

I can see that point. I can see the other side also.

So someone starts a new business and does half million its first year and needs a loan. Most of the time projections and valuation are used.

It is kind of important to know or have an idea of projected growth if investing.

 

[TacoMac]

I can see that point. I can see the other side also.

So someone starts a new business and does half million its first year and needs a loan. Most of the time projections and valuation are used.

It is kind of important to know or have an idea of projected growth if investing.

Actually, that's the problem to begin with: money is being thrown around based solely on what people HOPE will happen, not what has ACTUALLY happened.

Small wonder it ends in failure more times than not.

 

[twostrokenut]

That would be a correct guess.

if everyone did that this shit would be over really quickly.

 

[whitebb2727]

Actually, that's the problem to begin with: money is being thrown around based solely on what people HOPE will happen, not what has ACTUALLY happened.

Small wonder it ends in failure more times than not.

I'm not saying a company should be valued on projections. It is however an important bit of info.

 

[twostrokenut]

Dangit two stroke. Bad twostroke, bad. You are soooo wrong about this.


cred·it de·fault swap
noun
FINANCE
plural noun: credit default swaps

1. a financial contract whereby a buyer of corporate or sovereign debt in the form of bonds attempts to eliminate possible loss arising from default by the issuer of the bonds. This is achieved by the issuer of the bonds insuring the buyer’s potential losses as part of the agreement.

CDS theory was that a security could yield more than the low interest bonds available at the time by taking a pile of higher interest/higer risk loans and insuring them. The cost of the insurance would be paid for by the higher interest and on balance the security would pay back at a higher than prime rate with the same risk.

Of course, turned out, the tools used to estimate risk were bogus and so the whole thing unraveled very quickly, ultimately putting AIG, the big boy in the insurance room at risk. If AIG went under, world wide panic would ensue. We can thank Bush and his administration for letting banking industry self regulate these securities which is how the whole thing went down.

I'm sure somebody will dig up nefarious actions by Hillary and Obama but the root of this problem was the Bush administrations ruling to let banks regulate the CDS market free of government oversight.

so you contend the risky loans had zip to do with any government oversight? seriously?

 

[whitebb2727]

if everyone did that this shit would be over really quickly.

I lost my ass in 2008. I walked away from a house and two cars. Lost a business and a good job.

We made down payments on all of it and didnt borrow more than they were worth. Managed to sell without losing or harming my credit.

My wife and I moved in with a relative and walked for six months before buying a used car cash.

Fast forward and we saved enough to throw in with other family members and bought a small farm cash.

We have put in a few mobile homes for rent. I work for myself and draw a VA pension on top of it.

It can be done. I will never go back to debt.

 

[Blunted 4 lyfe]

saw an article recently saying that car payment lengths are at an all time high, like 69 months on average! I remember when you couldn't get an auto loan for more than a couple or three years.

Did that article also explain that the cost of manufacturing went up while middle class jobs disappeared? More and more ppl are stuck in low wage jobs having 2-3 jobs having to compete with rising cost across the board, so yeah, longer car payments is the result not necessarily a bubble about to burst, just car manufacturers responding to economic times that's all. My first showroom car was a 76' Dodge Challenger and it cost under $4,000 my Dad co-sign the loan I had landed a well paying union job and still living with my parents making payments of $39 dollars a month for that beast, now you have companies like jbryder or whatever's it's called selling old junk high mileage cars with the paint peeling off for $8,000-$9,000 to desperate fools who have those 2-3 jobs just so they can go to work. Sign of the times that's all it is.

 

[TacoMac]

I lost my ass in 2008. I walked away from a house and two cars. Lost a business and a good job.

We made down payments on all of it and didnt borrow more than they were worth. Managed to sell without losing or harming my credit.

My wife and I moved in with a relative and walked for six months before buying a used car cash.

Fast forward and we saved enough to throw in with other family members and bought a small farm cash.

We have put in a few mobile homes for rent. I work for myself and draw a VA pension on top of it.

It can be done. I will never go back to debt.

Very, very well done. Most people simply say, "screw it", go all in and rack up their credit to the max, then file bankruptcy and leave.

To the other end of that though, the lenders back in the late 90's and early 2000's were doing everything they could to talk you into a higher mortgage.

When we bought this house in 2003, it wasn't even finished being built yet. We set our budget at between 180,000 and 215,000 dollars as the lowest we thought would buy a decent home and the max we could actually afford.

EVERYBODY was trying to upsell us to 500,000 and 600,000 dollar castles. When we told them over and over that was over double our budget, they weren't interested in really dealing with us anymore.

In the end, we found the house on our own. We have about 8 years left to pay on it and that's it. It's the only thing we have financed. We pay cash for everything else.

At present, my credit score is 822. It's not 850 because I have too much available credit that I'm not using. My wife's is 830 something.

Not a day goes by we don't get a redwood tree full of shit trying to get us to invest, buy, lease, etc. everything under the sun.

 

[whitebb2727]

Very, very well done. Most people simply say, "screw it", go all in and rack up their credit to the max, then file bankruptcy and leave.

To the other end of that though, the lenders back in the late 90's and early 2000's were doing everything they could to talk you into a higher mortgage.

When we bought this house in 2003, it wasn't even finished being built yet. We set our budget at between 180,000 and 215,000 dollars as the lowest we thought would buy a decent home and the max we could actually afford.

EVERYBODY was trying to upsell us to 500,000 and 600,000 dollar castles. When we told them over and over that was over double our budget, they weren't interested in really dealing with us anymore.

In the end, we found the house on our own. We have about 8 years left to pay on it and that's it. It's the only thing we have financed. We pay cash for everything else.

At present, my credit score is 822. It's not 850 because I have too much available credit that I'm not using. My wife's is 830 something.

Not a day goes by we don't get a redwood tree full of shit trying to get us to invest, buy, lease, etc. everything under the sun.

About the same here. Letters and calls all the time.

I'm not sure what my credit score is. I haven't borrowed money in years. I check the reporting agencies once a year to make sure no one is using my credit.

I deal with a local bank and have plenty in savings.

I'm sure I could borrow if I needed to. I won't though.

 

[Fogdog]

so you contend the risky loans had zip to do with any government oversight? seriously?

Go back and read what I wrote. I'm quoting history when referring to the Bush administrations decision to let banks self regulate the CDS market. We were due for a recession and the CDS crisis pushed most of the world into a much worse scenario. This isn't an opinion, it's fact.

 

[Fogdog]

Very, very well done. Most people simply say, "screw it", go all in and rack up their credit to the max, then file bankruptcy and leave.

To the other end of that though, the lenders back in the late 90's and early 2000's were doing everything they could to talk you into a higher mortgage.

When we bought this house in 2003, it wasn't even finished being built yet. We set our budget at between 180,000 and 215,000 dollars as the lowest we thought would buy a decent home and the max we could actually afford.

EVERYBODY was trying to upsell us to 500,000 and 600,000 dollar castles. When we told them over and over that was over double our budget, they weren't interested in really dealing with us anymore.

In the end, we found the house on our own. We have about 8 years left to pay on it and that's it. It's the only thing we have financed. We pay cash for everything else.

At present, my credit score is 822. It's not 850 because I have too much available credit that I'm not using. My wife's is 830 something.

Not a day goes by we don't get a redwood tree full of shit trying to get us to invest, buy, lease, etc. everything under the sun.

In retrospect, it was pretty crazy in the early 2000's. I waited for interest rates to go down, waited a bit more and they went down again, refinanced and plowed all the savings back into the mortgage. Paid off the house seven years later. It was the only debt we had. Still use credit cards but have always paid them off in full each month. That was my view of what to do and still is. Meanwhile people were buying motor homes from equity they freed up by refinancing, nice new cars too. I can't say they were wrong. Their choice. Not mine. Where I went off the rails is when our leaders at the time talked as if those mortgages were moral obligations. Meanwhile millionaires declare bankruptcy as a matter of business strategy and talk as if they made hard choices to do the right thing.

No debt means more flexibility. Credit is for emergencies but not for investing or to purchase something that wears out. No debt means I can take more chances with what I do, be more creative and tell the boss to fuck off if I think working conditions suck. Which I've done.

I don't know what my credit score is because I'm not going to need to borrow. Haven't owed any money for years. Savings are enough to self insure some assets too.

That said, my story is my own and not some instruction for others as our right wing contributors seem to feel their story is. My wages were way above the median income of $35,000 per year. At that income, what I consider the list of basics -- food, shelter, utilities, clothing, health care, retirement savings, college fund for kids -- would have to be shorter. Living on the lower end of the wage scale means smaller problems cause big problems.

And so, what's the answer? I think universal single payer healthcare coverage has to be part of the equation. If somebody works full time -- and I mean 40 hours, not 80, then it has to be enough to pay for the basics. Otherwise, why not a tax-subsidized wage floor or government mandated minimum wage that meets basic cost of living?

 

[captainmorgan]

Wait till self driving trucks and cars take over along with robotic automation. It will destroy the middle class and concentrate even more wealth at the top.

 

[ttystikk]

Again, he became a billionaire NOT on the actual money people spent, but the typical, ridiculous "valuations" people put on their stocks.

Zynga (the company) has only made about 500 million from Farmville total. So how the hell is it magically worth billions?

Valuation.

Somebody makes 100 bucks one month, so they tell you they'll make 200 the next, 400 the next, 800 the next, etc. So you jack that valuation up, then sell your stock off and VOILA! Instant billionaire even though you never even made any more than half a billion at best to begin with.

Then of course 5 years later the company has no real new prospects, sales slow, the stock plummets and becomes near worthless and they start all over again.

Projections should be illegal. Period. A stock should be valued based on revenue and net profit, not some phantom valuation that has no basis in reality.

This is the magic and the risk of speculation. Nothing wrong with it. Crypto currency is currently doing the same thing. Your Bitcoins are swinging wildly in value on a daily basis!

It's why Tesla stock is currently trading at nosebleed levels, utterly out of proportion to the future prospects of the company. Those getting in now will just get fleeced.

I'm trying to time the short sale, myself.

 

[ttystikk]

Wait till self driving trucks and cars take over along with robotic automation. It will destroy the middle class and concentrate even more wealth at the top.

Tax the rich. They would not have made their fortunes without the rest of us, in spite of what their slickly produced marketing and media campaigns might say.

 

[ttystikk]

Actually, that's the problem to begin with: money is being thrown around based solely on what people HOPE will happen, not what has ACTUALLY happened.

Small wonder it ends in failure more times than not.

If you don't trust the valuation, don't invest.

It's when public trusts and pension funds do it that I have a problem. They need to stick to stocks with solid fundamentals.

Now is a good time to go long on GM and Ford. Such a bet is not sexy but it is solidly based on a company actually making a profit selling cars to real people, today.

 

[Fogdog]

Again, he became a billionaire NOT on the actual money people spent, but the typical, ridiculous "valuations" people put on their stocks.

Zynga (the company) has only made about 500 million from Farmville total. So how the hell is it magically worth billions?

Valuation.

Somebody makes 100 bucks one month, so they tell you they'll make 200 the next, 400 the next, 800 the next, etc. So you jack that valuation up, then sell your stock off and VOILA! Instant billionaire even though you never even made any more than half a billion at best to begin with.

Then of course 5 years later the company has no real new prospects, sales slow, the stock plummets and becomes near worthless and they start all over again.

Projections should be illegal. Period. A stock should be valued based on revenue and net profit, not some phantom valuation that has no basis in reality.

Always hear the same:
Past Performance Is Not Indicative Of Future Results

Then the portfolio shows charts containing future results based on past performance and the valuation is based on what "the market" (aka big pension funds, and wealthy individuals) project the valuation will be, based upon past performance. When somebody is trying to sell you something, they use every trick in the book. Saying "No" works pretty well as a strategy for dealing with most of them. Sometimes, you have to take on risk. Buying that home on cash isn't risk free either. We makes our choices and takes our chances.

But really, for most in this country, what I said was just babble. Most don't have any savings whatsoever. They will hit retirement age without enough to make it. The current system assumes they will work until they die. As if there are no other systems in other countries that are better. Sweden looks pretty good. Germany too. France also. Canada is not bad. They have set a basic floor below which a citizen cannot fall.

And we have Trump and the GOP.

 

[ttystikk]

In retrospect, it was pretty crazy in the early 2000's. I waited for interest rates to go down, waited a bit more and they went down again, refinanced and plowed all the savings back into the mortgage. Paid off the house seven years later. It was the only debt we had. Still use credit cards but have always paid them off in full each month. That was my view of what to do and still is. Meanwhile people were buying motor homes from equity they freed up by refinancing, nice new cars too. I can't say they were wrong. Their choice. Not mine. Where I went off the rails is when our leaders at the time talked as if those mortgages were moral obligations. Meanwhile millionaires declare bankruptcy as a matter of business strategy and talk as if they made hard choices to do the right thing.

No debt means more flexibility. Credit is for emergencies but not for investing or to purchase something that wears out. No debt means I can take more chances with what I do, be more creative and tell the boss to fuck off if I think working conditions suck. Which I've done.

I don't know what my credit score is because I'm not going to need to borrow. Haven't owed any money for years. Savings are enough to self insure some assets too.

That said, my story is my own and not some instruction for others as our right wing contributors seem to feel their story is. My wages were way above the median income of $35,000 per year. At that income, what I consider the list of basics -- food, shelter, utilities, clothing, health care, retirement savings, college fund for kids -- would have to be shorter. Living on the lower end of the wage scale means smaller problems cause big problems.

And so, what's the answer? I think universal single payer healthcare coverage has to be part of the equation. If somebody works full time -- and I mean 40 hours, not 80, then it has to be enough to pay for the basics. Otherwise, why not a tax-subsidized wage floor or government mandated minimum wage that meets basic cost of living?

Great idea! Now all we have to do is convince our billionaire owned government to do it.

 

[Fogdog]

Wait till self driving trucks and cars take over along with robotic automation. It will destroy the middle class and concentrate even more wealth at the top.

I'm dubious about the idea that self driving cars are nigh. Even trucks. I wouldn't trust my computer to drive my car. It's one thing when Zelda doesn't play or Netflix stops running due to a "known bug" and quite another when traveling down the interstate and a recent upgrade literally crashes. The computer industry is always hyping the next big thing. Do you remember Apple's Newton? We have hand-helds that sort of work now but in the early '90's that was all hype.

 

[Rob Roy]

Go back and read what I wrote. I'm quoting history when referring to the Bush administrations decision to let banks self regulate the CDS market. We were due for a recession and the CDS crisis pushed most of the world into a much worse scenario. This isn't an opinion, it's fact.

You are swatting at flies when their is an elephant under the rug.

Fractional reserve lending. Federal Reserve Ponzi scheme. It's a game and you've been conned.