pH and nutrient problems in organic soil

[OldMedUser]

I bought a soil pH reading that also has a moisture reader. My soil is about 6.8 but I noticed that even though my pot feels empty and I would normally water, in the center of the pot it's still pretty damn moist. So I think it conclusion, I was just overwatering. I have some organic plant food I got from coast of maine...in this video I watched the lady said over time you may have to add a bit. So if by correcting my overwatering problem doesn't fix this then I'll top dress.

I got one of those cheap pH/moisture/light meters too but wouldn't trust it's pH readings at all. The best is of course the most expensive and that's a good digital pH meter. Getting the proper pH when growing in soil isn't just reading what washes out of the pot when you water it either. You need to water/feed until the pot/bag is soaked real good. Then let it sit overnight and add enough water to get some runoff and test that as it takes time for the pH to settle after first watering/feeding. That's how the commercial greenhouse growers get accurate readings of the conditions in the root zone.

I suspect the reason the middle of your rootball stays wet is by not doing a couple of transplantings the bulk of the roots are in the bottom of the bag so suck up all the water down there while the top dries out from evaporation leaving the center all wet. In a plastic pot I'd pull the plant out and chop off the roots in the bottom to force them to branch out further up but hard to do in a fabric bag. The more I read about those the less I want to try them. The plastic smart pots look like they would do the trick for root pruning but open easy for root trimming or just to see how the roots are doing.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I got one of those cheap pH/moisture/light meters too but wouldn't trust it's pH readings at all. The best is of course the most expensive and that's a good digital pH meter. Getting the proper pH when growing in soil isn't just reading what washes out of the pot when you water it either. You need to water/feed until the pot/bag is soaked real good. Then let it sit overnight and add enough water to get some runoff and test that as it takes time for the pH to settle after first watering/feeding. That's how the commercial greenhouse growers get accurate readings of the conditions in the root zone.

I suspect the reason the middle of your rootball stays wet is by not doing a couple of transplantings the bulk of the roots are in the bottom of the bag so suck up all the water down there while the top dries out from evaporation leaving the center all wet. In a plastic pot I'd pull the plant out and chop off the roots in the bottom to force them to branch out further up but hard to do in a fabric bag. The more I read about those the less I want to try them. The plastic smart pots look like they would do the trick for root pruning but open easy for root trimming or just to see how the roots are doing.

yea man, if you tried that in a fabric pot you'd be dropping some harsh language reaaal fast, it's a total whore to transplant from those.
fabric pots are good for outside grows, and that's about it, BUT they are damn great for outside grows though
for me the biggest thing i use fabric pots for is to keep my compost and wormbin.
they work awesome for both of those, especially the wormbin.

 

[Chrisz0825]

yea man, if you tried that in a fabric pot you'd be dropping some harsh language reaaal fast, it's a total whore to transplant from those.
fabric pots are good for outside grows, and that's about it, BUT they are damn great for outside grows though
for me the biggest thing i use fabric pots for is to keep my compost and wormbin.
they work awesome for both of those, especially the wormbin.

I'm gonna try plastic pots next time around. I've only used smart pots cause I read they were "the best". Maybe they would work better if I just save them for flower. I plan on doing my first clones ever before I set my girls into flower. So from rockwool I will definitely be transplanting from a 1, 3 then 5 gallon. No more of this growing from final pot from start to finish.

 

[OldMedUser]

I go from the small. 3oz size seedling cups to 1L then 2L then a gal then either a 2.5gal or 4 gal pot for ones I'll grow larger and finish up about 3 -4' tall. I just emptied 10 pots and broke them up in the compost. None were even slightly root-bound and just a shitload of fine roots all over the place. They get root pruned each time and never miss a beat in their growing. I just wet the sil where the plant will sit then fill up the pot. No special additives or anything and I'll soak it down with half-stength nutes to get it going good.

How is it you do your transplants? Do you just leave the rootball intact and drop it in the bigger pot because that's the least traumatic to any plant. I always put enough dirt in so the rootball I'm repotting will end up about 2" higher than the rim of the big pot. Gives more dirt under it so more space to grow it's roots and makes a nice trench all around the plant for pouring the water in. Keeps the mainstem up high and dry too so less chance of stem rot tho that's rare. Any roots exposed at the top are like pipelines that just transport fluids without actually absorbing any themselves so they don't need to be buried.

Here's a trick to get a gentle repotting. Us a pot the same size you are transplanting from as a mold in the larger one to make a hole just he right size to drop the rootball into. Fill to the height you want then make it a bit higher as it will settle after watering. Water the bottom lightly so it's all damp. Then put the empty pot in nice and centered and fill the sides tamping it in and watering lightly as you go so it's nice and firm. Then gently twist the pot out and drop the rootball in it's new, custom-built home.



Set it in all snug as a bug in a rug.



Then tuck it i and make it comfy as it's going to be there 'til you kill it!



Then just soak it in good and you should see roots poking out the drain holes in a week or less.

Easy-peasy.

 

[old shol4evr]

good advice man

the concern i'd have is why is the 5 gallon container devoid of calcium?
i don't think it's that, to be honest.
considering the plant is only 5 weeks old i can almost guarantee that it's not a deficiency at all.
5 weeks old, and 5 gallons of soil, those two things can pretty much rule out a def.
you follow me?

when did you transplant?
i reaaaally urge people to NOT trans into a large container at that early of age, and i also recommend transplanting multiple times before it gets to it's "final" container.
reason being is that it can retain too much water, and furthermore, if you are in fact picking up the pot each time to see if it needs water, then what is happening (and you may not even realize this) but moving around smartpots will make them settle.... and then you end up with aeration at the top, and aeration on the sides, and the bottom and middle are dense humus and that turns anaerobic.
one of the reasons i don't like fabric pots...

honestlt man, i still stand by my earlier hunch

i really think they are getting too much water, that coupled with the container being too big and the media likely retaining too much water.
i'm not saying you are watering when they are still wet, i'm saying that you are watering when the middle of the container is still damp, and with the fairly small root system of a 5 wk old plant, that won't uptake very much water either.
but the problem sorta perpetuates itself, because as you water soil with no roots to keep it's structure you end up "floating" up the lighter materials (aeration, wood chips, etc) while "settleing" the more fine particulates, humus, peat, compost, etc. so what happens is the entire soil structure gets plugged from the settling.
sorta like goldpanning

My point is this, if you try to correct a calmag deficiency you are going to exacerbate or at the least prolong the issue.
at least that's my hunch on this anyways.
but i'd bet a small amount of money on it

im with grease monkey,,and 1 thing difrent from what he qoute is in your sitiation geyt you a moisture meter,,cheap things ,have ph,moisture and sun ,,keep them at 45 to 65% moisture and you will see the difrence,,i dont use and hate them smart pots,,complete shit in my eyes,,they misrepresent many issues and folk think there the solution,,from overwatering and air pruning,,moisture is the real criminal in the long run,,as he said adding other things to solve what you might think is the problem cause moire damage than good,,but at this point your at i hit the next watering with a humic fulvic drench then let them get all the way to 45% moisture and then continue as i started,,id almost bet the bottom of your pot smell like plum shit from soil going anerobic,,just my cent worth,,works for me

 

[old shol4evr]

 

[Chrisz0825]

I go from the small. 3oz size seedling cups to 1L then 2L then a gal then either a 2.5gal or 4 gal pot for ones I'll grow larger and finish up about 3 -4' tall. I just emptied 10 pots and broke them up in the compost. None were even slightly root-bound and just a shitload of fine roots all over the place. They get root pruned each time and never miss a beat in their growing. I just wet the sil where the plant will sit then fill up the pot. No special additives or anything and I'll soak it down with half-stength nutes to get it going good.

How is it you do your transplants? Do you just leave the rootball intact and drop it in the bigger pot because that's the least traumatic to any plant. I always put enough dirt in so the rootball I'm repotting will end up about 2" higher than the rim of the big pot. Gives more dirt under it so more space to grow it's roots and makes a nice trench all around the plant for pouring the water in. Keeps the mainstem up high and dry too so less chance of stem rot tho that's rare. Any roots exposed at the top are like pipelines that just transport fluids without actually absorbing any themselves so they don't need to be buried.

Here's a trick to get a gentle repotting. Us a pot the same size you are transplanting from as a mold in the larger one to make a hole just he right size to drop the rootball into. Fill to the height you want then make it a bit higher as it will settle after watering. Water the bottom lightly so it's all damp. Then put the empty pot in nice and centered and fill the sides tamping it in and watering lightly as you go so it's nice and firm. Then gently twist the pot out and drop the rootball in it's new, custom-built home.

View attachment 3978318

Set it in all snug as a bug in a rug.

View attachment 3978319

Then tuck it i and make it comfy as it's going to be there 'til you kill it!

View attachment 3978320

Then just soak it in good and you should see roots poking out the drain holes in a week or less.

Easy-peasy.

That's great advice man. Thanks a million. Sounds like I'm gonna be doing a lot of transplanting in my next grow. I read that a rule of thumb is one gallon of soil per foot of plant. But what if I top? Obviously they will be a lot smaller but that won't mean the roots will be smaller. Do the the same rules apply?

 

[OldMedUser]

That's great advice man. Thanks a million. Sounds like I'm gonna be doing a lot of transplanting in my next grow. I read that a rule of thumb is one gallon of soil per foot of plant. But what if I top? Obviously they will be a lot smaller but that won't mean the roots will be smaller. Do the the same rules apply?

The biggest pots I use hold 4gal and I often veg for a long time especially in ScroG and never get rootbound. With some of the ScroGs the plants would be 6 or 7' tall if stood up and that's after topping a couple times to get 8 main branches to tie to the screen.

Repotting is kinda like cloning. If you have trouble with it it just means you need to try a different angle until you find the way that works well for you. When someone doesn't clone because they had no luck then they should try it every time they trim a plant and have cuttings they are going to toss out. Took me quite a few tries before I could count on most of my clones surviving and many years back I'd have plants showing shock for a week every time I repotted too.

Practice maybe doesn't make perfect but it gets you closer each time you try. 20 years from now you'll wonder why you had problems at the start but we all do.

Hang in there!

 

[greasemonkeymann]

That's great advice man. Thanks a million. Sounds like I'm gonna be doing a lot of transplanting in my next grow. I read that a rule of thumb is one gallon of soil per foot of plant. But what if I top? Obviously they will be a lot smaller but that won't mean the roots will be smaller. Do the the same rules apply?

for organics you;ll do better with 2 gals per foot of regular vertical growth, this only applies inside of course.
you can do a one gallon per foot growth but that'll be closer to a hydro grow, meaning you'll need to supply the plant with chelated nutrients in order to support the growth.
i do a water only and i have the best results with 2 gals per foot, but keep in mind i use more aeration than most do.
another thing worth mentioning is that i never worry too much about the growth heights, more so i am more cognizant of the time in each container, tit's the time that makes the difference rather than the vert growth
the size of the container is an important choice to make, typically i have longer sativa hybrids flowering so i need to sorta match the vege times with that flowering time, so for me it's actually more advantageous to sorta "slow" them down a lil in vege, or i have a three foot plant ready to flower that typically triples when flowered, and i don't have the space for that.
but to do that you simply give them smaller containers, and do the final trans no less than 14-20 days before triggering flower.
another rule for me is to never transplant into a container that is more than triple the size of the previous container. that rule is only applicable inside.

 

[Wetdog]

Here's a trick to get a gentle repotting. Us a pot the same size you are transplanting from as a mold in the larger one to make a hole just he right size to drop the rootball into. Fill to the height you want then make it a bit higher as it will settle after watering. Water the bottom lightly so it's all damp. Then put the empty pot in nice and centered and fill the sides tamping it in and watering lightly as you go so it's nice and firm. Then gently twist the pot out and drop the rootball in it's new, custom-built home.

View attachment 3978318

That pic is the best illustration of my oft repeated mantra on perlite yet.

When it looks like there's too much, it's just right.

@OldMedUser
I also use that same trick and follow a very similar upcanning regimen. It just seems with time and experience, along with plenty of trial and error growers end up at the same spot.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

That pic is the best illustration of my oft repeated mantra on perlite yet.

When it looks like there's too much, it's just right.

@OldMedUser
I also use that same trick and follow a very similar upcanning regimen. It just seems with time and experience, along with plenty of trial and error growers end up at the same spot.

absolutely, I use that method as well, only difference is I like to get a misting spray bottle to mist the roots before applying myco to them, gets the myco to stick a lil better

 

[RayRay747]

for organics you;ll do better with 2 gals per foot of regular vertical growth, this only applies inside of course.
you can do a one gallon per foot growth but that'll be closer to a hydro grow, meaning you'll need to supply the plant with chelated nutrients in order to support the growth.
i do a water only and i have the best results with 2 gals per foot, but keep in mind i use more aeration than most do.
another thing worth mentioning is that i never worry too much about the growth heights, more so i am more cognizant of the time in each container, tit's the time that makes the difference rather than the vert growth
the size of the container is an important choice to make, typically i have longer sativa hybrids flowering so i need to sorta match the vege times with that flowering time, so for me it's actually more advantageous to sorta "slow" them down a lil in vege, or i have a three foot plant ready to flower that typically triples when flowered, and i don't have the space for that.
but to do that you simply give them smaller containers, and do the final trans no less than 14-20 days before triggering flower.
another rule for me is to never transplant into a container that is more than triple the size of the previous container. that rule is only applicable inside.

Hey bro - would you and/or others be able to give me some concrete feedback on whether or not I need to pH up my water. Comes out the tap 7.5ish. I slow boil the water to remove as much chlorine and chloramine. This raises the pH to 7.8-8.0 range. After I add the organic plant food the pH drops to the 5.0-5.5 range. When I add molasses, aloe vera juice, and/or coconut water to the boiled water, the pH drops to 4.8-5.0 range.

I am using Coast of Maine "Super Soil" -

I have read and continue to read that true organic growers do not need to pH the water source as the soil will buffer the water and get it to the correct pH. So my question is do I feed the soil/plant with the 4.8-5.0/5.0-5.5 range pH water or should I use something like Earth Juice pH up to get the pH to 6.3-6.5 range? I dont want to use baking soda to raise the pH as I have only heard bad things can happen when using baking soda.

Please let me know and thanks in advance.

 

[Chrisz0825]

Hey bro - would you and/or others be able to give me some concrete feedback on whether or not I need to pH up my water. Comes out the tap 7.5ish. I slow boil the water to remove as much chlorine and chloramine. This raises the pH to 7.8-8.0 range. After I add the organic plant food the pH drops to the 5.0-5.5 range. When I add molasses, aloe vera juice, and/or coconut water to the boiled water, the pH drops to 4.8-5.0 range.

I am using Coast of Maine "Super Soil" -

I have read and continue to read that true organic growers do not need to pH the water source as the soil will buffer the water and get it to the correct pH. So my question is do I feed the soil/plant with the 4.8-5.0/5.0-5.5 range pH water or should I use something like Earth Juice pH up to get the pH to 6.3-6.5 range? I dont want to use baking soda to raise the pH as I have only heard bad things can happen when using baking soda.

Please let me know and thanks in advance.

I use coast of maine as well. I use ro water and never adjust my pH.

 

[RayRay747]

I use coast of maine as well. I use ro water and never adjust my pH.

thanks bro. whats your pH after adding your nutes? I just dont see how its good to feed plants with pH of 4.8-5.0. Maybe the coast of maine soil will still buffer and work it out?

 

[jungpot]

guys i prepared soil around 100L with perlite and coco. but now i measured it and have 7,4 ph. i would like to lower it tomorrow to start with veg. what can i do. is peat ok how much must i mix it for such volume. thinking to add 20 L of peat

 

[Wetdog]

20l of peat sounds good, just remember it won't affect pH right away, more like a couple of weeks AFTER you wet it, so wait to check the pH. You will also need more perlite with the extra peat.

I'd steer clear of the coco in the future if you aren't using liquid nutes. Just stick with the peat.

Wet

 

[jungpot]

20l of peat sounds good, just remember it won't affect pH right away, more like a couple of weeks AFTER you wet it, so wait to check the pH. You will also need more perlite with the extra peat.

I'd steer clear of the coco in the future if you aren't using liquid nutes. Just stick with the peat.

Wet

Thx for reply)

 

[jungpot]

i added peat like 4 hours ago and more perlite like you said. i will wait for better results for ph, but one hour ago i couldnt wait and take sample , wait till now and measured it. from 7.3 to 6.85

 

[Wetdog]

i added peat like 4 hours ago and more perlite like you said. i will wait for better results for ph, but one hour ago i couldnt wait and take sample , wait till now and measured it. from 7.3 to 6.85

Cool!

When you get done adding stuff, the amount of perlite should look very much like the pics in OldMedUser's reply #24 earlier in this thread. Good to learn how to eyeball stuff like that and good aeration is essential.

"When it looks like there's too much, it's just right" Me

Wet

 

[jungpot]

so ph will drop more or i add more peat