Over watering or under watering?

[jmoneygrows]

New to soil growing. These two gorilla glue #4 plants are a month in veg. Growing in ocean farms organic soil in 5 gal smart pots. Seems like maybe over watering but not sure as I've never had the issue before (coco grows in the past never had watering issues). Anyways, I'm watering with RO water with cal mag. Typically half gallon or so every 3-4 days. I wait til soil is dry and crumbly up until first knuckle.
Typically pour water clockwise and not just in the middle of pots. Take a look and tell me if you think it's over watered and what I can do to fix. Have some fans going next to the pots to help airate if that's the actual problem.
Cheers

 

[SPLFreak808]

Its okay to measure a small pots moisture content using your knuckles, however i wouldn't recommend that method in soil once you hit 3 gallon+ pots.

You will eventually hit overwatering problems if you keep pouring in when only the top is dry, lift the pots instead and give a nice slow watering when the pot gets alarmingly light. You can raise the pots with a brick or something and help increase the exposure to oxygen at the bottom of the pots. It will help


Have you changed the lights,feed or environment prior to the issues?

 

[jmoneygrows]

Growing organic so besides a compost tea every 14 days and some cal mag there aren't any nutes going in. I'll definitely do the brick to suspend it. Good idea! No environmental changes. 600 watt air cooled hds light, carbon filter and an AC unit that keeps room at a constant 77 degrees. I just got a moisture meter on Amazon with a pretty long meter to stick in soil. I'll be using that. I don't want to get reliant on lifting buckets bc they're about to be trellised. Plus how does one factor for the weight of the plant as it's growing? Sure it's easy to tell a light pot when it's just soil and no plant... but these are a month in, have almost 3/4 inch main stalk and easily have 15-20 nodes each. Never understood how people can tell . Not to say it's not done and not possible.

 

[a senile fungus]

Learn to nudge the pots and itll tell you when to water... simple as that.

You do that enough times that you begin to recognize what the plants physical responses are to over and under hydration.

Those water meters are dangerous, lol. Some plants drink more than others.

 

[jmoneygrows]

Can you please expand on nudging? Sounds interesting.
My sky walker ogs look perfect next to them in same room and same watering cycle so I agree with that. Are the meters dangerous in that they are often misleading?

 

[a senile fungus]

I basically kick with foot or nudge with my knee a large container, or see how hard to lift a side, and it gives you a rough idea of how much water is in the container. Theres a reason everyone says to go by weight, because it works.

Regarding moisture meter, your plants arent all going to drink at the same rate. The meter is only going to tell you about the pot it is in. And even then, how can you trust the information the meter is giving you? Blumat makes an amazing meter that actually outputs useful info. If you're gonna get a meter, get that one. Otherwise, better to just learn to judge by feel and weight of the pot. You dont have to lift the whole pot, just a nudge will give you the info you need.

Meters arent actually dangerous, just thats is safer to actually understand when your plants are thirsty, rather then follow some gauge.

HTH

 

[jmoneygrows]

Haha awesome. I appreciate the info. I'll definitely start to lift the side and nudge to see how hard or giving the sides are. Gotta let these two girls air out for a bit. Just hoping they don't get bugs from too much moisture. Might have to sand the tops if it's looking suspect in a week or so.
Anyways cheers guys,
Thanks for the help.

 

[a senile fungus]

You'd be suprised at how dry you can let them go and what they'll come back from. Sand on top gives bugs a hard time, but also inhibits air flow to the roots. A HUGE part of watering is allowing air into the rootzone. Overwatering isn't saturating the roots in water, its basically inhibiting the ability of the roots to breathe, or drowning the roots.

Ive killed plants by under and over watering. Once you do that a few times you'll be a better judge of it

 

[jmoneygrows]

True that. You think there would be too little air flow with sand even if the plants are sitting in smart pots?

 

[SPLFreak808]

Growing organic so besides a compost tea every 14 days and some cal mag there aren't any nutes going in. I'll definitely do the brick to suspend it. Good idea! No environmental changes. 600 watt air cooled hds light, carbon filter and an AC unit that keeps room at a constant 77 degrees. I just got a moisture meter on Amazon with a pretty long meter to stick in soil. I'll be using that. I don't want to get reliant on lifting buckets bc they're about to be trellised. Plus how does one factor for the weight of the plant as it's growing? Sure it's easy to tell a light pot when it's just soil and no plant... but these are a month in, have almost 3/4 inch main stalk and easily have 15-20 nodes each. Never understood how people can tell . Not to say it's not done and not possible.

A gallon of water is over 8lbs so the difference between a 5 gallon with and without moisture is pretty significant, most of the weight will settle at the bottom Its kinda like picking up a bowling ball vs a volleyball.

You could fill another 5 gallon pot with completly dry soil, then pour a quarter gallon or less (2lbs-) in it and use it as reference until you learn the weight.

Fabric pots! Water enough to prevent dry spots and don't water again untill needed. Once your back on track then take fan off the fabric pots so they don't have dry spots.

 

[Buba Blend]

New to soil growing. These two gorilla glue #4 plants are a month in veg. Growing in ocean farms organic soil in 5 gal smart pots. Seems like maybe over watering but not sure as I've never had the issue before (coco grows in the past never had watering issues). Anyways, I'm watering with RO water with cal mag. Typically half gallon or so every 3-4 days. I wait til soil is dry and crumbly up until first knuckle.
Typically pour water clockwise and not just in the middle of pots. Take a look and tell me if you think it's over watered and what I can do to fix. Have some fans going next to the pots to help airate if that's the actual problem.
Cheers

A lot of good information here. I see new growers say there soil is dry because of this or that test, but they don't really know. The lift test is great but again, many new growers think the pot they lift is light and it is not. There are two ways that tell me the moisture in a pot when chatting with a new grower, if they want to make the effort, most don't.
1)Weigh the pot with a scale , easy to do up to 3 gallon pots, I can do it with a flowering plant in 5 gallon without any trouble.
2) If the pot has drain holes, insert a cheap moisture meter into the drain holes in several holes at least 5 inches and tell me what the meter did when you pushed it in and were it settled.
Those two ways will tell me with a fair degree of accuracy if your soil is to wet to water.
Newbies who say the top is dry 2 inches down or the pot is light is useless information from what I have found. If instead a Newbie told me his 3 gallon pot of ffof weighed 12 lbs or 15 lbs or 18 lbs. Now with that alone I have very useful information, add a probe up the butt and it should be an easy call. Believing the newbie that the pot is light and the soil is dry 2 inches down causes a lot of misdiagnosed problems IMO.

 

[jmoneygrows]

wow.. so after 2 more days, they started getting worse.. more and more withered. So i took one of them and submerged 3/4 of the bottom of the pot in a bucket of RO water. Much to my excitement an hour later and it sprang back up in full force. Turns out the water I had been pouring in was just beading off to the sides and not absorbing fully into the soil Both plants have fully recovered and now look great. I think my problem is how Im watering. The soil is so compacted its having a hard time permeating even throughout the entire pot. I noticed if I pour too quickly, it will pool at the top, and then seep thru the sides of the pots and run off. ANyone had these issues before? Would love a good recommendation on how to water, bc once I put these nets on top, i wont be able to water from the bottom like I did this go around.
cheers

 

[whitebb2727]

Give them more water. Its damn near impossible to over water in coco. I understand that the product you are using isn't straight coco but it should drain well.

Pour it to them. Up it to every other day.

Over watering presents with the leaves drooping and slight leaf cupping or yellowing and falling off.

Under water will present with the leaf stem itself going limp and the leaves pointing down.

If the under watering becomes a chronic issue you will start to see necrosis. Brown spots, holes and leaf death.

Temps, humidity and other factors determine how fast your medium dries.

Looks under watered to me.

A pic in blue or natural light would help.

 

[whitebb2727]

The soil can develope dry spots that become hydrophobic. With those type pots if it gets bad you may have to put them in trays and add water. Allow the pots to wick up water. Keep adding until they are full up.

If you feed anything synthetic make sure to get good runoff to prevent salt build up.

 

[jmoneygrows]

Give them more water. Its damn near impossible to over water in coco. I understand that the product you are using isn't straight coco but it should drain well.

Pour it to them. Up it to every other day.

Over watering presents with the leaves drooping and slight leaf cupping or yellowing and falling off.

Under water will present with the leaf stem itself going limp and the leaves pointing down.

If the under watering becomes a chronic issue you will start to see necrosis. Brown spots, holes and leaf death.

Temps, humidity and other factors determine how fast your medium dries.

Looks under watered to me.

A pic in blue or natural light would help.

yEah, I grew in coco my last grow and i was water 2-3 times a day and never saw a problem. With straight oil soil and perlite ( which is what im using) I had been warned before hand that over watering was the most common mistake new growers make. So I was very mindful to only water when it was dry up to my first knuckle. Which def isnt a great indicator as with 5 gallon pots, the soil can be wet way deeper than that. anyways, I was using about half a gallon on each plant every 3 days. I think the problem was two of the plants did not receive the wter that was poured on. Because it was poured on a little quick, it just pooled at the top, and i blieve a lot of it just seeped thru the cloth pots and spilld out the sides.
How much water are you putting on your plants when theyre a month into veg, assuming pots are 5 gallons and youre watering every 3 days or so. I understand there are many variables to that question, but a general idea would be great. Ive heard water until youre about to see run off, but not too much run off, as it will drain many of the good organisms im fighting to keep with these compost teas I use. Remember, this is an organic grow. Absolutely no real nutrients are being used other than a little cal mag.

 

[jmoneygrows]

Give them more water. Its damn near impossible to over water in coco. I understand that the product you are using isn't straight coco but it should drain well.

Pour it to them. Up it to every other day.

Over watering presents with the leaves drooping and slight leaf cupping or yellowing and falling off.

Under water will present with the leaf stem itself going limp and the leaves pointing down.

If the under watering becomes a chronic issue you will start to see necrosis. Brown spots, holes and leaf death.

Temps, humidity and other factors determine how fast your medium dries.

Looks under watered to me.

A pic in blue or natural light would help.

good idea with the trays. Just place them in the trays and add water to the trays? im assuming doing that will cause the bottom of the pots to absorb the water like a sponge...

 

[whitebb2727]

good idea with the trays. Just place them in the trays and add water to the trays? im assuming doing that will cause the bottom of the pots to absorb the water like a sponge...

Yes. Similar idea as a hempy bucket or sub irrigated planter. If you look at some of the flower pots at Wal-Mart or Lowes they hay a place to water at the bottom.

I though you were using the coco based fox farm medium.


With straight organics I don't worry about runoff. I do water until run off every so often.

Either way you water you want the soil to be thoroughly moist.

I don't use a meter or stick my finger in the pots. I go by eye now. You will get to the point where you know what it looks like.

Let one dry out. Skip watering it until it goes limp. One time won't hurt it. Water it good and watch it perk back up.

That limp look will start in the bottom of the plant. Water then.


You can take a spare pot and fill it with soil. Dump the soil on something in the sun and let it dry. Compare the weight of the dry pot to a watered one. Feel the difference. Pick your pots up and feel the heft of them.

 

[jmoneygrows]

Yes. Similar idea as a hempy bucket or sub irrigated planter. If you look at some of the flower pots at Wal-Mart or Lowes they hay a place to water at the bottom.

I though you were using the coco based fox farm medium.


With straight organics I don't worry about runoff. I do water until run off every so often.

Either way you water you want the soil to be thoroughly moist.

I don't use a meter or stick my finger in the pots. I go by eye now. You will get to the point where you know what it looks like.

Let one dry out. Skip watering it until it goes limp. One time won't hurt it. Water it good and watch it perk back up.

That limp look will start in the bottom of the plant. Water then.


You can take a spare pot and fill it with soil. Dump the soil on something in the sun and let it dry. Compare the weight of the dry pot to a watered one. Feel the difference. Pick your pits up and feel the heft of them.

Good call. Yeah, the trick comes with time and being able to tell when its dry enough. I got moisture meter, and that thing is a piece of junk. I even submerged it in wet towel for safe measures and it still only gave it like a 3 out of 10 on the wet scale. ha! anyways, im glad it was an under watering issue as opposed to overwatering.

 

[a senile fungus]

Good call. Yeah, the trick comes with time and being able to tell when its dry enough. I got moisture meter, and that thing is a piece of junk. I even submerged it in wet towel for safe measures and it still only gave it like a 3 out of 10 on the wet scale. ha! anyways, im glad it was an under watering issue as opposed to overwatering.

This is why they're dangerous lol. Imagine if you had 100% faith in the reading that the meter gave you!

Sounds like if you water more slowly, they'll absorb it more evenly. Some people will add a surfactant to the water to get it to spread out more even across the surface of the soil. A popular surfactant for soil use is yucca. You could look into that...

 

[whitebb2727]

This is why they're dangerous lol. Imagine if you had 100% faith in the reading that the meter gave you!

Sounds like if you water more slowly, they'll absorb it more evenly. Some people will add a surfactant to the water to get it to spread out more even across the surface of the soil. A popular surfactant for soil use is yucca. You could look into that...

A drop of soap will break water tension.

Good call. Yeah, the trick comes with time and being able to tell when its dry enough. I got moisture meter, and that thing is a piece of junk. I even submerged it in wet towel for safe measures and it still only gave it like a 3 out of 10 on the wet scale. ha! anyways, im glad it was an under watering issue as opposed to overwatering.

Try watering twice. Water each pot once lightly and again real good in about 10 minutes. Moist soil will absorb more water than dry.