Possible Rootbound? What do?

[SchweeDubz]

Hey all, so you can see in the pictures that my plants are experiencing some random discoloring and droopy leaves. I have looked up the possible nutrient related issues but after a bit more research I am starting to think they are just rootbound. Hoping to confirm this and get some possible fixes.

Setup:
-1x Berry Bomb, 1x Pakistan Valley, and 3x Amnesia Haze approx 6-7 weeks old (possibly up to 8, I didn't record my start time oops). Still vegging.
-40"x40" grow tent
-Mars II 900 LED light placed approximately 24" from the plants.
-3.5g pots filled with FFOF (the berry bomb is in a 5g), with 16 holes on the bottom sides and another 8 holes underneath.
-Earth Juice nutrient lineup, aerated for 24 hrs before use (Grow, Bloom, Catalyst, Microblast, Meta-K). Nutrients have been given twice so far, once a week ago with the microblast and meta-k, and yesterday with only the first three listed. The aerated EJ mix was giving me a PH of 3-4.5 so I add phUp to get to 6.5.
-Watering with tap water has varied, but now they are getting water every 3-4 days, depending on how dry the soil feels.
-The berry bomb (the biggest) has been tied down to prevent it from growing taller than the rest. The first Amnesia Haze (the smallest) has been tied down as well to hopefully promote more budding sites. Other than that, the only other training has been topping multiple times.

I am noticing now that there are roots coming out the bottom of every pot, maybe 1" or so from 2-3 holes, and none out of the sides yet. I have had several problem leaves, mostly at the base of the plant, and I have removed most, besides some of the ones pictured.

I have not yet done a ph test of the water runoff, but I will do that for the next watering, which will likely be the day after tomorrow.

If this issue is the plants being rootbound, are there any solid options besides replanting? Aside from being a pain, I don't have any other spare pots, and I dont think there's much leftover room in the tent anyways. Is the best course of action to start flowing now?

Any other advice is welcome of course. Thanks.

Edit: I just thought I'd mention that I have a new light on the way that I plan to use for flowering. It's a 400w Vero29 LED setup at 3000k.

Another Edit: I should mention that temps range from 75ish with the light on and low 60s with the light off. Humidity stays within 40-60.

 

[Buba Blend]

Overwatering is almost always the 1st suspect.
Do you have a moisture probe?
When you water how much do you give each plant?
If you can weigh the plant on a scale, let me know the weight.

 

[cookie master]

earth juice is low in ph but I think its better to NOT adjust earthjuice. The microbes will do that for you.

 

[chemphlegm]

I've grown trees in small containers for over 2 years without transplanting. roots were a foot outside the grow bags, on the saucer underneath it all dried up sometimes. there is no root bound issue ever in my grow rooms, cups, to 55 gallon drums, roots are always hanging out the bottoms of every container I use.

edit= rethinking this I now see a perfect example of rootbound cannabis, explained by doc.
I'll add poor substrate and/or smart pots can make cannabis root bound.

you water too much too often.
water when dry only.
remove ill leaves, skirt up a bit to allow more air to your top soil.
you may be over feeding currently. ff will take my vegging plants a long way without other amendments

 

[SchweeDubz]

I experienced over watering when I first started growing and I'd like to think that is not the issue. I give them a little over a half gallon each watering, which is enough to allow some run off. I wait until the top few inches are completely dry and the buckets are light. I actually only watered them maybe 3 times in their first month, but this was partially due to poor ventilation. I added a box fan back into the tent and the soil start drying much faster.

I tried to find some solid information on Earth Juice and the ph situation but it just seems like a lot of debate. I'd love to get some concrete info on this.

I could be over feeding as well but again I've only given them nutes twice. I've heard on a few videos that FFOF doesn't require nutes for the first 4-6 weeks, and so I waited 6 weeks here.

Edit: For what it's worth, the visible symptoms of the plant look to me like phosphorus deficiency. This is ultimately a guess based on some images but it seems to match up the closest. Last nutrient round I gave a bit extra EJ Bloom in hopes to boost the P. However, I still can't help but feel, if it is a phosphorus deficiency, that the deficiency is an effect of another cause such as being rootbound, rootrot, or overwatering.

 

[Buba Blend]

I experienced over watering when I first started growing and I'd like to think that is not the issue. I give them a little over a half gallon each watering, which is enough to allow some run off. I wait until the top few inches are completely dry and the buckets are light. I actually only watered them maybe 3 times in their first month, but this was partially due to poor ventilation. I added a box fan back into the tent and the soil start drying much faster.

I tried to find some solid information on Earth Juice and the ph situation but it just seems like a lot of debate. I'd love to get some concrete info on this.

I could be over feeding as well but again I've only given them nutes twice. I've heard on a few videos that FFOF doesn't require nutes for the first 4-6 weeks, and so I waited 6 weeks here.

Edit: For what it's worth, the visible symptoms of the plant look to me like phosphorus deficiency. This is ultimately a guess based on some images but it seems to match up the closest. Last nutrient round I gave a bit extra EJ Bloom in hopes to boost the P. However, I still can't help but feel, if it is a phosphorus deficiency, that the deficiency is an effect of another cause such as being rootbound, rootrot, or overwatering.

Ok! I can't help.
Somebody has to be right and somebody has to be wrong.
No reason to feel we may know better because we could be anyone on this site.
Some people post on these threads to screw or confuse people.
If someone decides to revisit your watering habits. Keep an open mind.

 

[SchweeDubz]

Of course...I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong. I just meant to say, generally speaking, I am aware that over watering is far likelier than under watering. If what I described still sounds like possible over watering, please let me know. I meant it when I said "I'd like to think its not the issue", but I could definitely be wrong. From what I've read, you're supposed to water once the top 1" or so of the soil is completely dry. I take this a bit further by double checking the pots feel light. I could probably push this even further and wait maybe 2 days after they feel dry, encouraging further root growth? I suppose it's worth a try because what else could I do? I highly doubt they are underfed between FFOF and EJ. The only other issue I could see is my light. It's the blue/red LED and perhaps there's some issue with the plant not getting the full spectrum? This is not my first guess though.

 

[chemphlegm]

fill bucket with dirt, feel the weight? weigh it even.
put plant in the dirt and backfill with more dirt.
A)feel the weight again?
now add water, about 1/4th the volume of your container/slight run off.
feel the weight again, weigh it.
dont water until it weighs near "A", right before the plant begins to droop.
you are winning now!
good luck, you'll be fine

 

[Buba Blend]

Of course...I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong. I just meant to say, generally speaking, I am aware that over watering is far likelier than under watering. If what I described still sounds like possible over watering, please let me know. I meant it when I said "I'd like to think its not the issue", but I could definitely be wrong. From what I've read, you're supposed to water once the top 1" or so of the soil is completely dry. I take this a bit further by double checking the pots feel light. I could probably push this even further and wait maybe 2 days after they feel dry, encouraging further root growth? I suppose it's worth a try because what else could I do? I highly doubt they are underfed between FFOF and EJ. The only other issue I could see is my light. It's the blue/red LED and perhaps there's some issue with the plant not getting the full spectrum? This is not my first guess though.

Phosphorus deficiency can be the result of watering to often while thinking your soil is dry. Happens all the time. Usually shows up as a calcium deficiency in early flowering. Keep your eye out for that also. Often shows up in the upper section of the plant as dead spots on the leaves, often the higher up fan leaves.

If you are watering to often and continue watering the same in a week or two you should begin to see a calcium deficiency.
If you were not over watering, why are your leaves so droopy?

 

[SchweeDubz]

Good question heh. I guess I've wanted to believe that the problem was with the buckets, the soil, or the nutrients. I feel like I should be using 5g buckets instead of 3.5g. I've also read that FFOF is a 'hot' soil. I've also had a hard time gathering real solid info on the proper use of EJ nutrients, especially with FFOF. Furthermore, I thought I was following the proper watering schedule with feeling the weight of the buckets and checking the top soil.

It's been 2 days since I last watered, I am going to wait at least 3-4 more, just to play it safe. I doubt I am anywhere near under watering them so this should be fine. I will tone down the watering and see if there are improvements.

 

[SchweeDubz]

Another question...will the damages on the leaves ever actually heal? Or is it more focusing on if damages don't get any worse?

 

[Buba Blend]

Another question...will the damages on the leaves ever actually heal? Or is it more focusing on if damages don't get any worse?

Keep it from getting worse, but if the problem is caught soon enough they can be finished just fine even if they don't look as pretty.

 

[SchweeDubz]

Cool. Well so far, I've removed the worst leaves, and the current leaves don't look too bad I'd say. The plants are already a bit less droopy than yesterday so y'all just might be right about the watering issue. To further make sure these plants are as healthy as possible, I am going to pick up some 7-10g smart pots tomorrow and repot within a few days.

 

[Buba Blend]

Cool. Well so far, I've removed the worst leaves, and the current leaves don't look too bad I'd say. The plants are already a bit less droopy than yesterday so y'all just might be right about the watering issue. To further make sure these plants are as healthy as possible, I am going to pick up some 7-10g smart pots tomorrow and repot within a few days.

Remember what chemphlegm said about learning the weight with a dry pot of soil. When he agreed with my 1st assessment by giving it a like my confidence increased because he reads these problems better than I do.
Try this.
From the drainage holes you created. Make a hole big enough to get something like a small flat knife or something and pull a little soil from about an inch or two deep from the hole to see if it is dry or wet. If that soil is wet it is not time to water. Try it before you transplant to see how it looks.

 

[SchweeDubz]

Hm ok. Should I worry about damaging the roots when I increase the size of the holes?

 

[Buba Blend]

Hm ok. Should I worry about damaging the roots when I increase the size of the holes?

Doing a test like that won't hurt anything. Don't dig a lot out. In fact you probably won't even have to move the soil if you see it is wet or moist. Do it when you were going to water. The information might help for the future.

 

[SchweeDubz]

So, I repotted today. I noticed that there was some discoloring at the bottom of my roots. Go figure. Nothing too terrible going off some pictures I've seen, just a tint of brownish. Obviously not good still but hopefully the rot doesn't spread? I probably should have asked about this before going ahead with it...and I wish I at least remembered to take pictures but oh well...They were repotted in FFOF with some perlite added so I think I'm good on nutrients for at least another 2 weeks, and I'll be near flowering by then hopefully.

 

[Buba Blend]

So, I repotted today. I noticed that there was some discoloring at the bottom of my roots. Go figure. Nothing too terrible going off some pictures I've seen, just a tint of brownish. Obviously not good still but hopefully the rot doesn't spread? I probably should have asked about this before going ahead with it...and I wish I at least remembered to take pictures but oh well...They were repotted in FFOF with some perlite added so I think I'm good on nutrients for at least another 2 weeks, and I'll be near flowering by then hopefully.

Pics aren't needed. The roots were brown because they were wet. You know that now so you know what your problem was. Let the soil dry out and you might have white roots in the future.
Here is a transplant I did from a 6" clay pot recently. This is what you want to see.

 

[SchweeDubz]

That is mostly what I saw except for the bottom corner area. Some not at all, some only an inches worth or so, some a little worse. I was actually impressed with the overall root growth but yeah, I think I needed more ventilation in addition to less watering.