How often do you get bugs in your FFOF?

[chemphlegm]

So then you admit that you smoked weed that wasn't grown very well and blamed in on the soil...

I admit that I agree with your last statement saying;
"One can, of course, just dump chem in a bucket and grow with it, but you will tell the difference...



if you mean to say soil vs hydro flavors then this> I am a pro at using both feeding techniques. Both ways produce super fine flowers for me. Nobody has ever faulted either tech including me. I can discern the difference in terpene profiles, your dirt, my dirt, no matter.
Do I blame the dirt for the success? assuming all other resources are provided then yes, the dirt/content is to blame.
I believe the complex soil web including the massive fungal activity sends messages to other components that assist in the plants' uptake of necessary elements. Hydro nutrients use synthetic chelators to do this.

I liken the difference to myself taking vitamins and minerals and fiber and water, instead of eating fruits nuts berries vegetables with water.....
probably survive on both but I bet I would perform better with the latter for thought..and

point maybe is do you think you would smell differently feeding one way compared to another?
I already know the answer so....

 

[Chunky Stool]

after reading this thread,think i'll just stay away from ffof.not because of the company itself,but because of my local grow shop where i get my supplies.they arent always on top of getting things inside.That,i personally believe,is part of the problem.ive bought bales of promix (no problems)that have been stored outside from them,but promix is wrapped pretty damn tight.ive also bought happy frog soil conditioner from them,no problems so far.the one other thing i see quite often here,are threads about ffof being a bit hot.that could totally be operator error as well.

FFOF is too hot to sprout seeds, but it's fine for everything else. VERY young plants may not like it at first but they always adjust without any issues.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

FFOF is too hot to sprout seeds, but it's fine for everything else. VERY young plants may not like it at first but they always adjust without any issues.

I am still unsure why anyone thinks ffof is hot at all. It has no available nutes in any amount that even requires an NPK rating.

I am still sprouting seeds in it with no problems due to hot soil.

It is just a growing medium.

And it says it's for seedlings right on the bag.

 

[Chunky Stool]

I am still unsure why anyone thinks ffof is hot at all. It has no available nutes in any amount that even requires an NPK rating.

I am still sprouting seeds in it with no problems due to hot soil.

It is just a growing medium.

And it says it's for seedlings right on the bag.

Maybe it varies?

 

[chemphlegm]

sometimes happy frog was great with seedlings, other times not so much....I quit using it for the inconsistency.
you guys might be on to something...

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Maybe it varies?

Well my bags come from different palates every other week or so and I have only noticed if a bag was wet or compacted in storage as a difference.

And if it did get wet or compacted it seems to need more perlite to get it to drain well.

Those bags feel heavier and denser than a nice fresh fluffy bag.

I'm sure Fox Farm has had fuck ups before like any manufacturer though. I just have yet to see pests from a bag or any growth problems I can be sure was the soils fault.

It does retain water well. Its easy to over water compared to say pro mix Hp.

Also need to get the fertilizing right at transition when the nutes have become depleted. But I just start light and taper up the first few times.

I have seen the occasional mag or calcium deficiency people complain about but I still think that is my oversight.

The recent time I had issues it turned out my well water had gone down 50 ppm this summer. Less calcium less mag. I did not realize so I did not adjust in time.

I have added some agricultural lime to my soil bin to see if the problem goes away.

Just my experience and opinion from 2 years of running it in my perpetual plant a week harvested/ planted garden.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

sometimes happy frog was great with seedlings, other times not so much....I quit using it for the inconsistency.
you guys might be on to something...

This is getting silly. Happy frog is their lower line of container mix. I found it to have more uncomposted wood chunks and needed tons of perlite to drain well. It also was not screened as well as ocean forest and needed to have more chunks broken up when I was using it.

Had great results with it even on my very first Grow. With 25% added perlite for drainage.

It has no measurable available NPK just like ocean forest to hurt any seedlings. It's just a slightly lower quality Grow medium.

I bet if you grow a plant right now in either you would have no problems.

The fact you keep saying your bagged organic fertilizer works so much "easier" and better leads me to believe you never really got the hang of the other style.

The individual Grow is more important than every other factor to quality and yield. I do not believe the other arguments about this vs that hold any weight. It can all work great.

The plants and the grower hold the variables.

 

[chemphlegm]

This is getting silly. Happy frog is their lower line of container mix. I found it to have more uncomposted wood chunks and needed tons of perlite to drain well. It also was not screened as well as ocean forest and needed to have more chunks broken up when I was using it.

Had great results with it even on my very first Grow. With 25% added perlite for drainage.

It has no measurable available NPK just like ocean forest to hurt any seedlings. It's just a slightly lower quality Grow medium.

I bet if you grow a plant right now in either you would have no problems.

The fact you keep saying your bagged organic fertilizer works so much "easier" and better leads me to believe you never really got the hang of the other style.

The individual Grow is more important than every other factor to quality and yield. I do not believe the other arguments about this vs that hold any weight. It can all work great.

The plants and the grower hold the variables.

which other style you thinking I didnt get the hang of?

how can you explain the multitude of growers(google) experiencing seedling issues in fox farms and happy frog ? I had an issue, googled, it, concurred and stopped using it. My seedlings never burned in pro mix yet for sure. maybe chunks of guano in some and others not so much? I dunno.

HF has earthworm casting(hot for my seedlings) and bat guano(also hot for my seedlings) for thought.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

which other style you thinking I didnt get the hang of?

how can you explain the multitude of growers(google) experiencing seedling issues in fox farms and happy frog ? I had an issue, googled, it, concurred and stopped using it. My seedlings never burned in pro mix yet for sure. maybe chunks of guano in some and others not so much? I dunno.

HF has earthworm casting(hot for my seedlings) and bat guano(also hot for my seedlings) for thought.

I will ask back. Why am I and so many other growers not having any problems? And if it's true that the soil has quality problems how are they still in business all these years?

I mostly grow from seed. Shouldn't I be experiencing some of these problems you are reporting? I plant a seed from a different breeder all the time to try new stuff.

Ffof is designed to feed a plant for 2 weeks. Pro mix 1 week. From their own instructions.

Barely a difference in nutes available in my experience as well.

I think it is from not breaking up the chunks well enough. Wet or otherwise infested improperly stored or old bags. Or just plain over watering causing most problems.

I had problems like growers report when I tried using it straight out of the bag without mixing well and adding large perlite.

Still consider that my error.

 

[chemphlegm]

sounds like you've discovered my issue with it.
no matter though, 20 bucks a bag...meh..
25 gets me a bale of promix, a cup with a seed, to a bag with ferts......woooohoooo winning

 

[chemphlegm]

I'm finding the organicare grow formula cant be lived without here....I feel silly fussing with fishy powder all this time..
all of a sudden considering vegging in five gallon buckets instead of stupid cups n bags..lol

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

sounds like you've discovered my issue with it.
no matter though, 20 bucks a bag...meh..
25 gets me a bale of promix, a cup with a seed, to a bag with ferts......woooohoooo winning

I pay $13.

And I still only use it because of availability and clean storage out here. I don't like mixing perlite in my house.

I liked working with pro mix better. But the feed store that carries it leaves it outside all day. And I always found a tear.

And I am not a fan of busy hydro stores in town.

I still may ammend it with the Botanicare bloom like you suggest in flower. Then I could be water only the whole Grow.

But I still fear giving up the control the bottles offer.

Here's a question for ya. Isn't the dry organic pellets and powders just slow release water activated fertilizer?

Not like base element organic ammended soil that requires microbes for breakdown (which I am still having trouble believing can work in a container in the short time it has). I guess that's why the true organic gardeners say the soil gets better each time. Like an outdoor garden bed.

 

[chemphlegm]

I think so, and microbes are born lightning fast when poop and water and oxygen as organic matter is broken down. this is why sometimes we recycle, or cook our soil first, if not a foliar feed works wonders while the soil is cooking, a few days and bam the plant responds all telling.

 

[Yodaweed]

FFOF is too hot to sprout seeds, but it's fine for everything else. VERY young plants may not like it at first but they always adjust without any issues.

It's sprayed with ammonium nitrate so it's very hot to start and becomes nutrient deficient within 2 months because it's actually not organic so all the microbes die.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

It's sprayed with ammonium nitrate so it's very hot to start and becomes nutrient deficient within 2 months because it's actually not organic so all the microbes die.

Lol. Seriously?

Where did you here this?

 

[Dynamo626]

It's sprayed with ammonium nitrate so it's very hot to start and becomes nutrient deficient within 2 months because it's actually not organic so all the microbes die.

i call bull shit. You cant say things like that without proof
https://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/sun-714304-msds.pdf
This is the msds for ffof. No amonia nitrate

 

[Dynamo626]

My very first grow was ffof under a 90w led. No nutes just ro water. Suffered no deficiency. They were clones vegged for 6 weeks then flowered. 3.5 months to harvest. Now im only in ffof for flower. If it was sprayed with amonia nitrate my plants would be nitrogen toxic. For the bennifit of thoes that need this resorce. Please dont post what you heard unless you do some research first

 

[Bacala]

Maybe it varies?

Could be. I too, plant directly into OF and have not run into issues.

I suspect that this has been discussed so much that tons of people who have never used the soil believe it and repeat it so it is now pretty much universally accepted.

 

[Yodaweed]

i call bull shit. You cant say things like that without proof
https://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/sun-714304-msds.pdf
This is the msds for ffof. No amonia nitrate

https://www.reddit.com/r/microgrowery/comments/5707w0/fox_farm_conspiracyocean_forest_soil_no_longer/


Here's the test results from someone who sent their FFOF to a lab, came back positive for ammonium nitrate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/microgrowery/comments/4phg4f/ladies_are_loving_some_colorado_sun/d4l3k4x


Here's a quote from the article

"
Just as a heads up, Fox Farms on the west coast has gone to shit. We've soil tested our pallets and they all come back with too much variance to be good soil. Comparing those tests to something like Roots Organic 707 Blend is night and day. The roots comes back with a great result and shows that it's old soil. The FFOF comes back as brand new soil soaked in ammonium-nitrate.

Edit: Here's a test we did. http://i.imgur.com/JXx77U9.png

"

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

https://www.reddit.com/r/microgrowery/comments/5707w0/fox_farm_conspiracyocean_forest_soil_no_longer/


Here's the test results from someone who sent their FFOF to a lab, came back positive for ammonium nitrate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/microgrowery/comments/4phg4f/ladies_are_loving_some_colorado_sun/d4l3k4x


Here's a quote from the article

"
Just as a heads up, Fox Farms on the west coast has gone to shit. We've soil tested our pallets and they all come back with too much variance to be good soil. Comparing those tests to something like Roots Organic 707 Blend is night and day. The roots comes back with a great result and shows that it's old soil. The FFOF comes back as brand new soil soaked in ammonium-nitrate.

Edit: Here's a test we did. http://i.imgur.com/JXx77U9.png

"

This is a bunch of unsubstantiated crap from a forum post.

And the test has no info on what was tested.

You have proven nothing here. And I still have never had a soil related problem other than drainage.