Trump disbands manufacturing councils after mass CEO defection.

[Gquebed]

Please don't speculate. Please bring facts. I've consistently stated the well documented fact that the rate of incarceration of black men is much higher for the same crimes as white men. To me, that the courts would allow this disparity is evidence of systemic racism in the judicial system.

You speculate that white men are let off because they have the money to hire good lawyers and black men don't. I see nothing to back this claim up.

In any case, even if the reason were economic disparity, why does the justice system tolerate racial bias? Demonstrable racial bias in housing was used to strike down housing laws in Texas. Demonstrable racial bias in hiring practices have been used to reform industries. And yet, demonstrable racial bias in the justice system is tolerated. How is this not evidence of systemic racism in the justice system?

Stepping further back for a minute, are you claiming that there is no racism in this country, just the economic injustice of concentration of wealth in the hands of the 1%? You incorrectly state that the vast majority of poor people in this country are black. This isn't even close to true. I think you meant black communities are disproportionately affected by poverty, which is true. Isn't this evidence of systemic racism?

Jesus...when did i even remotely imply that racism isnt a problem?

Fuck...now i know for sure youre just looking for a fight.... when you suppose or assuming things about what other people write when there is absolutely no basis for it.... you are fucked up man...

 

[Fogdog]

Not speculating at all.
It is a fact that the US has the highest jailing ratevon the planet and it is economically driven.
Dont take my word for it.

I'm not taking your word for it. I'm rejecting it. I'd reconsider if you could provide more than your opinion. Link please.

 

[Gquebed]

I'd appreciate a link to something with more than opinion to back that up.

Back it up. Do your homework?. Hahahahhah

Whats wrong with you? Look it up yourself. There is no shortage of material...

 

[Gquebed]

I'm not taking your word for it. I'm rejecting it. I'd reconsider if you could provide more than your opinion. Link please.

Again...easily verifiable on your own.

No move along troll.

 

[Fogdog]

Jesus...when did i even remotely imply that racism isnt a problem?

Fuck...now i know for sure youre just looking for a fight.... when you suppose or assuming things about what other people write when there is absolutely no basis for it.... you are fucked up man...

I'm not fighting. I've been polite the whole time. You keep telling me that racism is an economic problem and the facts don't line up with that. If you want to challenge any of the facts I've laid out to you. Facts such as:

The justice system tolerates higher rates of incarceration of black men than white men. In many other cases they don't. How is this not an example of systemic racism in the justice system?

Trump's supporters are economically better off and feel less economic anxiety than people who didn't vote for him. Trump's supporters also feel more antipathy towards black people, are less likely to be pro-immigrant and habor more racial resentment. Also, Trump has a strong and vocal base among the white nationalist movement. So, how is racism and the rise of white nationalism at all linked to economic conditions?

Back it up. Do your homework?. Hahahahhah

Whats wrong with you? Look it up yourself. There is no shortage of material...

Actually there is a shortage of material to back your opinion that the justice system is unbiased racially only economically. I find too many counter examples. So I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you have good information to back your claims. It seems you don't.

 

[UncleBuck]

Well...
I was excluding the fringe element ..... the kooks and zealots... there is little hope for them. There brand of racism is virulent but easily contained if there is the political will

The normal far out number them.

Your argument is shitty and stupid

 

[schuylaar]

@Fogdog

Youre just arguing for the sake of arguing. My point was that economics is a huge factor is racism. I gave you all kinds of examples. But they arent good enough.

So... carry on being dissatisfied... with this...and i imagine many other things.

he's like that with everyone..it doesn't occur to him that he's wrong.

 

[schuylaar]

I'm not fighting. I've been polite the whole time. You keep telling me that racism is an economic problem and the facts don't line up with that. If you want to challenge any of the facts I've laid out to you. Facts such as:

The justice system tolerates higher rates of incarceration of black men than white men. In many other cases they don't. How is this not an example of systemic racism in the justice system?

Trump's supporters are economically better off and feel less economic anxiety than people who didn't vote for him. Trump's supporters also feel more antipathy towards black people, are less likely to be pro-immigrant and habor more racial resentment. Also, Trump has a strong and vocal base among the white nationalist movement. So, how is racism and the rise of white nationalism at all linked to economic conditions?


Actually there is a shortage of material to back your opinion that the justice system is unbiased racially only economically. I find too many counter examples. So I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you have good information to back your claims. It seems you don't.

you're being obstinate.

 

[Fogdog]

Okay. You lazy fuck.
5 seconds on google is all it took.
But you wouldnt do it yourself because you dont want to be wrong. It makes ass sore like from a good fucking probably.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2page1.stm

Not only does the US have the highest rate of imprisonment it is not even close....

How is it that you dont know this when the rest of the planet has it as common knowledge?

It is a huge crisis in your country for fuck sakes....

The US has a huge prison population. True. This does nothing to prove your argument that it's economic-driven. How is this related to poor downtrodden white people who as your argument goes, become nazis? You make less sense with each expletive.

A lot of reasons for our large prison population are due to systemic racism. The way drug laws were crafted, the disproportionate rate of stop and searches of black teenagers is another. Also, as I've repeated, there is a much higher rate of incarceration for the same crimes as white people. And this is damning of our justice system. A legal standard for proving systemic racism is by demonstrating the effect of racism without actually proving any individual act was racist. By that standard our courts are systemically racist. Yet it is tolerated. This can be due to unequal ability to pay for legal representation. Doesn't matter. If the effect causes racial disparity and is not corrected then there is cause for declaring the system to be racially biased. That this disparity isn't addressed is again proof of racism in our judicial system. I'm not saying anything that would suprise a black or hispanic man. It surprises and annoys you, evidently.

Getting back to your argument, which is (I paraphrase)

There are economic hardships everywhere
White men who experience economic hardship become Nazis
Racism exists but isn't important

I'm sorry, I'm lost. What is your argument again?

 

[Fogdog]

you're being obstinate.

Are you saying racism in America isn't an issue too?

 

[Gquebed]

Are you saying racism in America isn't an issue too?

Cant you read? Fuck...

 

[Fogdog]

Cant you read? Fuck...

Oh hi

Your the guy who says all the racial problems in the US would be solved if everybody got a raise. Is that your point?

 

[Gquebed]

The US has a huge prison population. True. This does nothing to prove your argument that it's economic-driven. How is this related to poor downtrodden white people who as your argument goes, become nazis? You make less sense with each expletive.

A lot of reasons for our large prison population are due to systemic racism. The way drug laws were crafted, the disproportionate rate of stop and searches of black teenagers is another. Also, as I've repeated, there is a much higher rate of incarceration for the same crimes as white people. And this is damning of our justice system. A legal standard for proving systemic racism is by demonstrating the effect of racism without actually proving any individual act was racist. By that standard our courts are systemically racist. Yet it is tolerated. This can be due to unequal ability to pay for legal representation. Doesn't matter. If the effect causes racial disparity and is not corrected then there is cause for declaring the system to be racially biased. That this disparity isn't addressed is again proof of racism in our judicial system. I'm not saying anything that would suprise a black or hispanic man. It surprises and annoys you, evidently.

Getting back to your argument, which is (I paraphrase)

There are economic hardships everywhere
White men who experience economic hardship become Nazis
Racism exists but isn't important

I'm sorry, I'm lost. What is your argument again?

You surely cant read.
Where did i say the prisons are full of poor white people? Why would i say that when the stats show that the populations is disporportionately black and hispanic.

Youre putting words in my mouth so ypu can argue with them?

Fuck...we are on the same side. My only different point has been that racism is largely an economic problem and far better minds than mine have decided that hundreds of years ago. All the evidence you need for that all around you.

But you ignore it because you want to argue.

Youre probably one of those types of people who always assume an anti trumpster is pro hillary or bernie. Or vice versa.

Jesus you are just as bad as the racists you rail against.

 

[Gquebed]

Oh hi

Your the guy who says all the racial problems in the US would be solved if everybody got a raise. Is that your point?

That is you over simplfying my point so ypu can keep arguing. I gave how many examples to show the different ways that economics plays into racism. And you choose the one way that I didn't even mention and say that I said it so you can argue?

 

[Fogdog]

That is you over simplfying my point so ypu can keep arguing. I gave how many examples to show the different ways that economics plays into racism. And you choose

The problem with your examples is you made them up.

The prison system, for example. Rife with systemic racism. Way more black men are given prison time for the same crimes comitted by white men. You waved your hand and said economics. Then your proof was the total number of incarcerated men. Forgive me, but I couldn't follow your logic. The number of incarcerated men is only proof that the US holds more behind prison bars by far than any other place. It's a leap to say this is proof that economic factors cause this number rather than racial ones.

This kind of article is easy to find:
http://theweek.com/articles/626637/gobsmacking-racism-americas-criminal-justice-system

Consider for instance the fact that though African Americans comprise only some 12 percent of the general population, they make up about 42 percent of death row.

I'll even go with your assertion that the reason is because fewer African Americans who are tried for murder are able to afford a good lawyer. Assuming this is true, how does this disprove systemic racism is at the heart of the problem? Why is this disparity tolerated?

The gobsmacking inequity goes well beyond capital cases, of course. In 2014, USA Today found that at least 70 police departments across the country were 10 times more likely to arrest black Americans than anyone else. Once arrested, blacks are more likely to be jailed while awaiting trial and offered plea deals that include prison time. The Sentencing Project has reported that racial disparities in the arrest of young people increased between 2003-2013, even as overall youth incarceration dropped; TSP further reports that 47.2 percent of prisoners serving life sentences are African Americans.

Lawyers don't have anything to do with arrest rates and that in some areas, black men are much more likely to be arrested. In 70 police departments, if not more. Why is this tolerated if not for racism?

And then this idea that those nazis who marched in Charlottesville were driven to racism by economic problems. As if you even knew those people were poor. Who said they were. They were able to travel across the country, take time off from work and attend a hate rally. Doesn't sound like a poor person to me.

I showed hard data that establishes pretty well the connection between racism and the Trump voter. I'm not saying all are hardcore racists. Just that his presidency owes a debt to the 20 percent or so of this electorate that is hard core supremacist racist. And the typical Trump voter was not poor. In fact their median family income was higher than that of the nation as a whole.

 

[Jimdamick]

This is true. A really good lawyer can achieve better results. You use a court case where a 1%er won.

And yet, black men are incarcerated at much higher rates for the same crimes as white men. Why would the courts allow such unequal results?

Because the laws as written are racist, example being the differences in penalties between the possesion of crack cocaine (black people) and powder cocaine (white people). Same quantity, big difference in penalties.

 

[Fogdog]

Because the laws as written are racist, example being the differences in penalties between the possesion of crack cocaine (black people) and powder cocaine (white people). Same quantity, big difference in penalties.

Of course they are. This guy is completely obsessed with thinking racism is some party game. His argument that what we recognize as systemic racism is entirely due to minorities being poor. I'd love to hear him say that at an African American College Student Conference. I'd even pony up for the bodyguards.

 

[Jimdamick]

Of course they are. This guy is completely obsessed with thinking racism is some party game. His argument that what we recognize as systemic racism is entirely due to minorities being poor. I'd love to hear him say that at an African American College Student Conference. I'd even pony up for the bodyguards.

I think his point is that if a person of color had more of an equal economic/educational footing, they would not so likely be overly represented in the prison population. You seem to be saying that simply being black (blatant racism/lack of equal education) is the reason they are in jail.
It seems to me that both arguments have merit, and it's been a good debate, on both sides.

 

[UncleBuck]

I think his point is that if a person of color had more of an equal economic/educational footing, they would not so likely be overly represented in the prison population. You seem to be saying that simply being black (blatant racism/lack of equal education) is the reason they are in jail.
It seems to me that both arguments have merit, and it's been a good debate, on both sides.

Wealthy black NFL players get pulled over and searched about 50 times more than their white counterparts.

It's the skin color, money is irrelevant.

 

[Fogdog]

I think his point is that if a person of color had more of an equal economic/educational footing, they would not so likely be overly represented in the prison population. You seem to be saying that simply being black (blatant racism/lack of equal education) is the reason they are in jail.
It seems to me that both arguments have merit, and it's been a good debate, on both sides.

I think his argument went beyond jails and he used jails as an example.

The problem with starting at people of color are more likely to be economically challenged as a reason for systemic inequity in this country ignores how we ended up with this inequity in the first place.

Here's a pretty good article that breaks it down.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/07/11/racial-economic-injustice-jobs-incomes-and-wealth/?hpid=hp_regional-hp-cards_rhp-card-posteverything:homepage/card&utm_term=.2c6f00219eec
What racial injustice looks like in America’s economy

As far back as we can tell, African Americans have been on the short end of the stick when it comes to wealth and prosperity. Duh, proportionately more African Americans are poor. What he did was look at the symptom and ignored the cause of the problem. Why is it that African Americans are perpetually stuck in the lower brackets regardless of the metric? By judicial standards, one only needs to prove the effect of racism exists in order to prove systemic racism. The effect of racism is certainly borne out by economic metrics. Also prison statistics. It's silly to say that racism isn't an important issue to minorities or to the country as a whole. Only a privileged white person would say that racism isn't the largest factor behind the cause of many disparities in the condition between black people and white people.

And then there is this idea that racial tensions in the US is due to economic hard times. No, racial tensions exist in hard times and good times. Always has been.

Through good times and bad times, the ratio of unemployment between blacks and white has been steady with black people always on the short end. Last hired, First fired.

And so, I treated @Gquebed like he is retarded.

OK, I'm not a nice guy. So sue me.