Is changing res water in dwc really necessary?

DrGhard

Well-Known Member
yes you definitely can. it is always recommended though to do at least one full ress change between veg and flowering.


the things you need to take care if you are planning not to change res are:

-res temperature: when your plants get bigger some small pieces of roots fall off into the res. this can lead ot bacteria growing in the ress, especially with temps above 20C (68F).

-overall res water quality. indipendently of the above, bacteria can develop over time in the res. always check for gunk or bad smells. if it happens you are better off changing the ress and cleaning up the pot (with H2O2 for inntance). you can also fix microbial growth in the res by pouring in H2O2, but only if you catch it at the earliest stages.

- don't use beneficials. while their utility in DWC is questionable already, keeping them in a ress that you are not intending to change will lead to a lot of gunk buildup. while in theory those are not harmful micro-organisms, they do consume oxygen and nutrients in the ress iff things get out of control.

- after harvest, you gotta clean pot and airstone very well because you gonna have a lot of salt buildups in both, if you do never change the ress over the growth cycle.
 

chasingwaterfalls

Active Member
Just sharing that anything is possible :mrgreen: :

This isn't a suggestion by any means haha, but even with a near-fatal issue, i still didn't do a full res change. Ended up losing half of one plant, but all has been well.

Lowered res temps and used hygrozyme- I know using enzymes are arguable, but worked for me!

( I had an issue with some pathogen - my res was smelling like eggs for a couple days about 30 days into veg, but I got ahead of it

Had to cut about half of one plant where it was wilting, but plants are thriving now )
 

chasingwaterfalls

Active Member
I think the full res change between veg and flower is required if you're using different nutes once flowering begins? Haven't seen an issue with Lucas formula so far, so I guess that makes a difference

I guess I'd do the res change when swapping nutes, at the end of the flowering stretch
 

BadlyDrawnBoy

Active Member
-res temperature: when your plants get bigger some small pieces of roots fall off into the res. this can lead ot bacteria growing in the ress, especially with temps above 20C (68F).

- clean pot and airstone very well
this is definitely something to consider. each time ive changed the res so far, ive seen some loose roots floating around. nothing substantial, just a few...but like you said, i could see them decomposing and causing issues.

and after 2 weeks, for me, the top of the airstone tubes that aren't underwater begin to grow some funky looking stuff on them. the airstones feel a bit slimey too. i could just be imagining it, but id rather be safe than sorry and clean them several times during the grow. the way the roots grow around the air tubes makes it really hard to get them out of the res. those roots are amazing!
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Here's a table demonstrating the rates of removal of different elements from a recirculating solution.

View attachment 3997195

Nutrients brands with a high Calcium content for example will cause issues as it accumulates in the solution due to it's slow removal.

Peace
BL
So that's why I have never seen Ca deficiencies ever in DWC. Even 25 years ago when I only had a few tubs under my belt no problems like that ever came up. I did on occasion see Mg def and used to always dose lightly with Epsom salts to fix it. Even an old fart like me can learn something new every day. :D Thanks.

@OldMedUser which nutrient brands/products have you used for your runs with no nutrient changes?
As mentioned above I use AN pH Perfect nutes and GOOD RO water. Must be below 20ppm in my books to rate as great. 20-50 decent and I just won't pay for anything over 50. Looking to get my own unit. So check what you get from the store or your machine to keep it low. Some guys have tap that goes up or over 400 and those ppms get left behind each time you add more crappy water until you're at 2000ppm and only 20 ppm is nutes. That's an exaggeration but that's what's going on when you use hard water to grow your plants. Builds up in plants grown in pots too and causes toxic salts buildup just like it does in hydro. If you must use hard water for whatever reason then keep track of how much water you are adding back in your top ups and change the nutes each time you've added back as much water as your rez holds. That's for hard water like 400-500 ppm. If your tap is around 200-300 then you could go 1 1/2 and if better than that then twice as much before a nute change before salts accumulation will start causing problems like lockouts and too high pH that just won't come down.

I use nothing but RO in my potted plants too and don't worry about runoff and never flush but just feed RO the last 2 or 3 weeks so they use up what's left.

In my albeit limited number of dwc grows (4 now..), I've had different experiences - I think as long as you're checking the water regularly and change the res before any problem gets out of hand, you don't really need to follow a strict schedule

I've been using Lucas with GH in dwc- first with the flora series (micro+bloom) and now I'm trying the flora nova bloom for the first time.

With the flora series, I was starting to see issues with what looked like nute lockout about 2-3 weeks in. This couldve been my fault, too, from just not dialing it in - but I think I did.

With the flora nova bloom, I haven't changed out the res fully once- all I've done is a half change. My plan was to go all the way to harvest without changing the res if it can make it
After 4 you're starting to get the hang of it. Feed the plants when they tell you they want more. If you're still a little nervous that you might wake up to a disaster then change more often but for sure anyone should be able to do the first 4 weeks from clone and not change. Just add small amounts of nutes to bump the ppm up as the plants get bigger and are eating more and believe me it will work just fine.

I gotta say I would ditch the GH stuff for a couple big reasons. 1) They have always been hypocrites claiming they make nutes for flowers and veggies only and bashing the hell out of AN making all sorts of outrageous claims about AN and frankly paying posters, (shills), to respond to every positive AN post with lies and false news. Remind you of anyone like say . . . The freaking orangutan running the US! lol

2) They were bought out by Scott's a couple years back. The producers of fine pot growing products like Miracle-Gro who are in bed with Mon$anto who has now merged with Bayer who's roots are deep in Hitler's Germany. They made the gas used to kill a few million Jews, Gays and anyone they didn't like.

3) They use the cheapest possible ingredients with shitty quality control so a fresh bottle of their 3-part may be twice as strong or twice as weak as the last one. Their higher end nutes are a bit better but look at who makes them and ask yourself if you want to give your money to Nazi bastards or a nice Canadian/US company like AN. Botanicare and Gavita got bought up by Scott's/Mon$atan/Bayer around the same time as GH. Coming to a walmart near you soon as pot is legal federally in the US!

I won't buy a lot of companies stuff because of their business practices like Coca-Cola, Heinz, McDonalds etc etc etc. I may not have much but I do have principles and a conscience.

If anyone wants links to some of my past grows including one where I grew two tubs side-by-side and never changed one just ask and I'll PM them to you so you can see what I'm talking about. They are on another site so I don't want t opost them here. I'm out of town in Kelowna now and for the next 3 weeks so only get on when I'm not dealing with family stuff so might take a day or two. Niece's wedding next Sat and my mom's 90th b-day the Sat after that. :)

Driving into the valley on this week to attend my #2 son's court appearance for theft under $5000 so may be wishing him well in his year long stay in the Grey-bar hotel. Not his first offense but what's a tweaker to do eh. ;)

Good luck and good growing you guys!

:peace:
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
started using bleach, stopped changing res
Bleach! Really! I've read lots of threads where guys are using pool shock and things like that to run sterile hydro but I sure as hell wouldn't use it. I used to use food grade peroxide to run clean DWC tubs but made a DIY chiller from a water cooler and nothing but nutes since. No beneficial bacteria crap either. In the long run it won't work either. 50 DWC tubs and 200+ plants under my belt now so I have an idea what works. First tub in 2001.

I'm hot to do DWC with AN's new certified organic hydro nutes and while here in BC will be looking to pick some up. Iguana Juice for the nutes, Big Bud, Bud Candy and Ancient Earth fulvic acid stuff. All certified by California to be organic derived.
 

CannaBruh

Well-Known Member
Bleach! Really! I've read lots of threads where guys are using pool shock and things like that to run sterile hydro but I sure as hell wouldn't use it. I used to use food grade peroxide to run clean DWC tubs but made a DIY chiller from a water cooler and nothing but nutes since. No beneficial bacteria crap either. In the long run it won't work either. 50 DWC tubs and 200+ plants under my belt now so I have an idea what works. First tub in 2001.

I'm hot to do DWC with AN's new certified organic hydro nutes and while here in BC will be looking to pick some up. Iguana Juice for the nutes, Big Bud, Bud Candy and Ancient Earth fulvic acid stuff. All certified by California to be organic derived.
DWC since 2004 or 2005, I had never ran sterile until this year. I saw a guy that goes by Medgrower1 on youtube put this stuff in his fancy little cloner called "UC roots" his cuttings were exploding with roots so I got me a few of those cloners (oxycloner) and after a few clone runs I started putting it in my veg and flower girls. No gunk even in warm temps, win.

I found that it's simple enough to make, but a lot simpler to buy, 3ml/gal for plants with roots, up to 10/gal in the cloner, I've never seen roots like this, ever and my reservoirs have never ever ever been cleaner come harvest.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Chiller for the win in a flooded system. And for the $10 it cost to change the res periodically I do it. When ph starts to fall I change, that can take anywhere from 14 to 5 days. Yes I use well water so that may effect stability also.
 

JSB99

Well-Known Member
If anyone wants links to some of my past grows including one where I grew two tubs side-by-side and never changed one just ask and I'll PM them to you so you can see what I'm talking about.

:peace:
I'd like to check out the pics! I'd like to go a little ways between res changes. My roots are white, water's constantly cold (68-70), got the roots in the dark, etc...

I haven't noticed any major drops in nutes or pH yet.

I hate the thought of dumping unused nutes.
 

BionicΩChronic

Well-Known Member
I'd like to check out the pics! I'd like to go a little ways between res changes. My roots are white, water's constantly cold (68-70), got the roots in the dark, etc...

I haven't noticed any major drops in nutes or pH yet.

I hate the thought of dumping unused nutes.
Don't dump just change every 4 weeks. Also young plants or seedlings (with roots in water) can actually be damaged by a rez change
 

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
I'm just looking to get a modest yield, probably won't be doing anything more than single pot hydro or soil. I'd like to try soil next, just to compare. Seems it may be a bit cheaper overall doing soil. Loving the way the hydro is working though, seeing the white roots expanding into open water and the plant growing happy above. But I'm the type who prefers a set it and leave it type approach, so soil is probably forthcoming. Nice for a first grow to be more involved with the plant and tending to it, I do enjoy it.
Did soil = ok for indoor but not great (watering all the time/fungus gnats)
Went hydro indoor= great results (able to adjust your nutes/PH immediately)
Fuck soil for indoor, that's my opinion, so don't change, you'll be glad you didn't.
 

BadlyDrawnBoy

Active Member
Did soil = ok for indoor but not great (watering all the time/fungus gnats)
Went hydro indoor= great results (able to adjust your nutes/PH immediately)
Fuck soil for indoor, that's my opinion, so don't change, you'll be glad you didn't.
Yeah I was feeling a bit intimidated and dissuaded in the beginning of the grow, as i was still figuring things out and needing to tweak certain elements in the hydro grow. but i'm at a different place now and seeing clearly the benefits of hydro overall. if anything, i'll be progressing into more advanced hydro systems/setups, rather than switching to soil.
 

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Fuckin beautiful response
I've done DWC for 16 years and have tried changing regularly and not changing for the whole grow. I've run side-by-side tubs changing one a few times and not changing the other once with no difference in results or yields. I've settled on changing once after the stretch then just take out some of the nutes and replace with RO water to lower the ppm during later flower.

There is certainly no reason to change weekly when the plants are small and barely eating anything. You are just wasting perfectly good nutes and making more trips to the hydro store to make them richer.

This whole "gonna get different nutes off balance" is just malarkey. Never seen any deficiencies even when the nutes never got changed once. Not a great plan for a brand new grower but once you can read your plants fairly well it's easy-peasy.

I use the pH Perfect nutes and long ago retired my pH pen. I grow in single RubberMaid tubs so just have to top up, check ppm and boost nutes as needed to maintain the ppm level I want every 3 days with big plants.

Now if DWC would just cut flowering time in half like it does with veg times I'd have the best of all possible worlds. :)
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
I'd like to check out the pics! I'd like to go a little ways between res changes. My roots are white, water's constantly cold (68-70), got the roots in the dark, etc...

I haven't noticed any major drops in nutes or pH yet.

I hate the thought of dumping unused nutes.
Unfortunately the links to my past journals are home on my desktop and I'm here for 10 more days at least. Remind me.

I certainly wouldn't toss out the nutes if everything is ship-shape otherwise. Just add some more in the proper ratios to raise the ppm when they eat some and to bump it up to a higher level when they are ready for more. After I crop the water is still clear and nutes a nice light tan colour. The The Big Bud stains them a bit.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Holy crap! I just priced ancient earth....wow! It's $45 a litre in Amazon CA. I can see why you never dump a res lol.
Gabbed with Dallas, the lady that owns the hydro store I go to in Kelowna, for about an hour yesterday and she tried to order me some of the new organic nutes like the Ancient Earth but not in Canada eh. Her supplier says AN may not even bother getting them registered for sale in Canada as the market isn't big enough to justify jumping thru the regulatory hoops to get it here. If so I'll be looking for a new line of nutes in a year when I run out of these.

She's getting me in a 500ml jug of Bud Factor X so I can run a side-by-side and see if it's worth using regular. Should be here Sat. Might go seed shopping tomorrow at Hemp City but if not then next week some time.

Big f'n forest fire started this aft that's close enough to be a threat. Hope we don't have to bug out.

:peace:
 
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