swapped out my chinese blurple panels for timber vero29 bulbs and you won't believe the difference

I

Ivan___

Member
i ran two side by side tents with a 200 watt vero bulb and 200 watt blurple LED. few weeks later the results are astonishing - the blurple tent is thriving while the timber tent has gone to shit. either the whole chip-on-board thing is a scam or i screwed something up big time


the vero plants have grown large, spindly leaves and become severely discoloured. the stems are thick and vibrant however the plants look sick.

the blurple plants have rich green leaves and thick, dense development. they are looking great!

i ran 6 plants in each tent same strains all healthy and vibrant at the start, small plants about 1 month old. the vero light was about 2-2.5 feet above the plants and the vipra was about a foot over the plants. both tents ran 75-85 degrees



blurples chillin



blurple gsc (notoriously slow grower)



typical vero results



stunted height, sickly look but enormous leaves (vero)


my speculations

- the vipra bulb has a blue spectrum which is better for veg. maybe the vero's are designed for flowering plants

- the plants were too small to handle the vero bulbs and got burned due to the intensity of the light. I was running the 200 watt framework at 100% output


please help me determine the issue. I had ordered some more vero bulbs and I am seriously regretting that decision
 
mauricem00

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
Ivan___ said:
i ran two side by side tents with a 200 watt vero bulb and 200 watt blurple LED. few weeks later the results are astonishing - the blurple tent is thriving while the timber tent has gone to shit. either the whole chip-on-board thing is a scam or i screwed something up big time


the vero plants have grown large, spindly leaves and become severely discoloured. the stems are thick and vibrant however the plants look sick.

the blurple plants have rich green leaves and thick, dense development. they are looking great!

i ran 6 plants in each tent same strains all healthy and vibrant at the start, small plants about 1 month old. the vero light was about 2-2.5 feet above the plants and the vipra was about a foot over the plants. both tents ran 75-85 degrees



blurples chillin



blurple gsc (notoriously slow grower)



typical vero results



stunted height, sickly look but enormous leaves (vero)


my speculations

- the vipra bulb has a blue spectrum which is better for veg. maybe the vero's are designed for flowering plants

- the plants were too small to handle the vero bulbs and got burned due to the intensity of the light. I was running the 200 watt framework at 100% output


please help me determine the issue. I had ordered some more vero bulbs and I am seriously regretting that decision
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Chinese grow lights have gotten a lot better and all the high end grow light makers use multiband LEDs. they claim that plants can only use 40% of the light produced by white LEDs . vipraspectra and other commercial LED grow lights were made for growing plants. vero's and white COBs were made for lighting structures and parking lots. kind of like comparing HPS street lights to CMH bulbs which were developed for growing plants.intensity is important but spectrum is also important. the closer you can come to matching the absorption spectrum of cannabis grown in sunlight the better your plants will perform. I'm sure the COB crowd will challenge this but I learned to grow from greenhouse operators and horticulturalist so my opinions are based on real science. not the cherry picked studies and bro science LED makers use to sell their products. the absorption spectrum I posted was made using cannabis plant grown in natural sunlight in Columbia.if you want a better LED and can afford them you should look at lights using cree and osram diodes
 

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I

Ivan___

Member
mauricem00 said:
Chinese grow lights have gotten a lot better and all the high end grow light makers use multiband LEDs. they claim that plants can only use 40% of the light produced by white LEDs . vipraspectra and other commercial LED grow lights were made for growing plants. vero's and white COBs were made for lighting structures and parking lots. kind of like comparing HPS street lights to CMH bulbs which were developed for growing plants.intensity is important but spectrum is also important. the closer you can come to matching the absorption spectrum of cannabis grown in sunlight the better your plants will perform. I'm sure the COB crowd will challenge this but I learned to grow from greenhouse operators and horticulturalist so my opinions are based on real science. not the cherry picked studies and bro science LED makers use to sell their products. the absorption spectrum I posted was made using cannabis plant grown in natural sunlight in Columbia.if you want a better LED and can afford them you should look at lights using cree and osram diodes
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Thank you for the thorough reply. I am shocked because of the seemingly universal support for these bulbs on the forum. It seems too widespread to be a marketing gimmick. I know many users claim to have much better results with the white LEDs so I am hoping some of them will comment as well
 
Enigma

Enigma

Well-Known Member
Ivan___ said:
I have fed both tents on the same schedule, but I agree the vero plants look to have multiple nutrient deficiencies. I will swap half of the plants between the two tents, increase the feeding of the discoloured ones and monitor ongoing progress
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The give away was the discolouring on the lower leaves, the dark veins and purple blue colour of the upper leaves. Tips drying and curling could have been many, many things but since they are on the bottom I'm going with deficiency across the board (NPK).

:leaf:
 
mauricem00

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
Ivan___ said:
Thank you for the thorough reply. I am shocked because of the seemingly universal support for these bulbs on the forum. It seems too widespread to be a marketing gimmick. I know many users claim to have much better results with the white LEDs so I am hoping some of them will comment as well
Click to expand...
the key word is "on this form" you are listening to a small but very vocal group of people. you need to do your own research online and talk to professional growers. the growth of LED grow lights is being driven by cannabis growers but by using false claims and pseudoscience the LED makers are telling them what to think. I have seen people pull 1GPW using CFLs but that required the right strain and a very experienced grower. horticulturalist and green house operators rely on actual science. cannabis is a weed that will grow anywhere. even in soil that is too poor to grow other cash crops and it can adapt to growing under any form of light but with LEDs it does need more nutrients and supplements because it can not absorb them from the soil as easily as it does with other forms of light.you need to find the right strain that will grow well under those lights and give it more food than you would with other lights. you may also think about adding UV to your spectrum. one or two of these bulbs will fill in the spectrum nicely http://www.ebay.com/itm/T5-BULBS-T5HO-HIGH-OUTPUT-FLUORESCENT-LAMP-2-4-ft-GROW-BLOOM-UV-1-4-8-25-packs/160895821950?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=460130683601&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
 
I

Ivan___

Member
Budley Doright said:
Is it robbing the old to feed the new? I think I would try upping the nutrients first and see....boy I like hydro lol.
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yes the vero plants seem to be underfed though they receive the same nutrients as the vipars

the lesson seems to be more light = more food

i will try it and find out
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
mauricem00 said:
the key word is "on this form" you are listening to a small but very vocal group of people. you need to do your own research online and talk to professional growers. the growth of LED grow lights is being driven by cannabis growers but by using false claims and pseudoscience the LED makers are telling them what to think. I have seen people pull 1GPW using CFLs but that required the right strain and a very experienced grower. horticulturalist and green house operators rely on actual science. cannabis is a weed that will grow anywhere. even in soil that is too poor to grow other cash crops and it can adapt to growing under any form of light but with LEDs it does need more nutrients and supplements because it can not absorb them from the soil as easily as it does with other forms of light.you need to find the right strain that will grow well under those lights and give it more food than you would with other lights. you may also think about adding UV to your spectrum. one or two of these bulbs will fill in the spectrum nicely http://www.ebay.com/itm/T5-BULBS-T5HO-HIGH-OUTPUT-FLUORESCENT-LAMP-2-4-ft-GROW-BLOOM-UV-1-4-8-25-packs/160895821950?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=460130683601&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
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I went from t5 to citizen cobs with no change in my soil recipe.

I agree cannabis will grow under any light.

That's what I believe the poster has an agenda. This is the second thread claiming the same thing. In the first thread you can Cleary see the soil is extremely dry and the damage was from chronic under watering.
 
Heil Tweetler

Heil Tweetler

Well-Known Member
Ivan___ said:
yes the vero plants seem to be underfed though they receive the same nutrients as the vipars

the lesson seems to be more light = more food

i will try it and find out
Click to expand...
in my experience bumping up nutrition was essential in order to take advantage of the amped up par. At first i thought it was a spacing issue and I raised my lights accordingly. When I posted a few pics someone suggested bumping up nutrition. I did a soil test and bumped up based on that data. The results were phenomenal.

i went from a 550w actual watt blurble to a ~ 570w cxb/v29 combo. The cob rig drops more than 2x the par of the "900w" Mars. Calcium and micros were particularly effective additions to my peat based, very very recycled mix.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Heil Tweetler said:
in my experience bumping up nutrition was essential in order to take advantage of the amped up par. At first i thought it was a spacing issue and I raised my lights accordingly. When I posted a few pics someone suggested bumping up nutrition. I did a soil test and bumped up based on that data. The results were phenomenal.

i went from a 550w actual watt blurble to a ~ 570w cxb/v29 combo. The cob rig drops more than 2x the par of the "900w" Mars. Calcium and micros were particularly effective additions to my peat based, very very recycled mix.
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Makes sense.

I run organic mix that's on the hot side anyways. The plant can take all it wants.

If using synthetics might need to up it. I've also seen many that needed cal/mag. Those help with uptake of nitrogen.
 
Heil Tweetler

Heil Tweetler

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
Makes sense.

I run organic mix that's on the hot side anyways. The plant can take all it wants.

If using synthetics might need to up it. I've also seen many that needed cal/mag. Those help with uptake of nitrogen.
Click to expand...
Do a soil test before subscribing to the cal-mag stoner dogma. In many cases Mg isnt doing you any favors. In soils with high organic matter Mn/Fe ratio, particularly low Mn is causing a bottleneck. Meanwhile high Mg and K may be negatively impacting quality, potency and disease resistance
 
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whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Heil Tweetler said:
Do a soil test before subscribing to the cal-mag stoner dogma. In many cases Mg isnt doing you any favors. In soils with high organic matter Mn/Fe ratio, particularly low Mn is causing a bottleneck. Meanwhile high Mg and K may be negatively impacting quality, potency and disease resistance
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I don't test my soils. I just kind of know what it needs I've recycled it so long.

I rarely use it. Mostly never need calcium so I use Epsom. I've used it twice in the last 2 years.
 
Lordhooha

Lordhooha

Well-Known Member
Heil Tweetler said:
Do a soil test before subscribing to the cal-mag stoner dogma. In many cases Mg isnt doing you any favors. In soils with high organic matter Mn/Fe ratio, particularly low Mn is causing a bottleneck. Meanwhile high Mg and K may be negatively impacting quality, potency and disease resistance
Click to expand...
I keep la mottes soil testing kit to check my soils make up
 
I

Ivan___

Member
I finally swapped out 750 watts of mars hydro lights in my flowering tent for 600 watts of vero29 on over some plants in week 3 of 12/12

Checked them after 48 hours and I have NEVER seen plants grow so fast. The plants literally grew up to 3" in height with enormous verdant, beautiful thin bladed leaves sprouting up everywhere. NO issues with discoloration or burning. Absolutely satisfied with my COB lights for flowering and eager for the lights to come on again so I can see the daily progress
 
Ghost of Davy Jones

Ghost of Davy Jones

Well-Known Member
Ivan___ said:
I finally swapped out 750 watts of mars hydro lights in my flowering tent for 600 watts of vero29 on over some plants in week 3 of 12/12

Checked them after 48 hours and I have NEVER seen plants grow so fast. The plants literally grew up to 3" in height with enormous verdant, beautiful thin bladed leaves sprouting up everywhere. NO issues with discoloration or burning. Absolutely satisfied with my COB lights for flowering and eager for the lights to come on again so I can see the daily progress
Click to expand...
My plants grow 3 inches in 48hrs....right after i feed them...lol
 
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