Which would produce more DO in a DWC?

[XipXipXoom]

Keep seeing this CRAP about bubble size. YThey comment with NO FUKIN research on the subject. Just wash off the shit B4 you share!!!

No need to get hostile. I understand that smaller bubbles have more surface area and in turn are capable of imparting more DO, but fact is that water at a given temp can only hold so much DO before it becomes saturated. If you hit the saturation point with larger bubbles, smaller bubbles will not increase it any further. Most O2 is dissolved from water circulating at the surface anyway, which is why waterfalls and powerheads work so well.
I don't want to argue. I just thought I'd provide a different POV and some food for thought.
Later

 

[ttystikk]

No need to get hostile. I understand that smaller bubbles have more surface area and in turn are capable of imparting more DO, but fact is that water at a given temp can only hold so much DO before it becomes saturated. If you hit the saturation point with larger bubbles, smaller bubbles will not increase it any further. Most O2 is dissolved from water circulating at the surface anyway, which is why waterfalls and powerheads work so well.
I don't want to argue. I just thought I'd provide a different POV and some food for thought.
Later

I took this same idea to heart years ago and I designed my RDWC system with waterfalls in each tubsite. It works great and I only need one pump for the whole system.

Don't let grumpy posters chase you off. Clearly you have plenty to contribute and I'm interested in hearing it!

 

[Niblixdark]

I took this same idea to heart years ago and I designed my RDWC system with waterfalls in each tubsite. It works great and I only need one pump for the whole system.

Don't let grumpy posters chase you off. Clearly you have plenty to contribute and I'm interested in hearing it!

With a RDWC system using two lines in at top of lid and one out at the bottom gives pretty good DO but a stone or even two in a 5G bucket fully saturates the roots with O2 under the rootball. 2 lines are best in my opinion because one can always clog up.

 

[JSB99]

With a RDWC system using two lines in at top of lid and one out at the bottom gives pretty good DO but a stone or even two in a 5G bucket fully saturates the roots with O2 under the rootball. 2 lines are best in my opinion because one can always clog up.

That's why I'm using both a waterfall, and a 70/LPM pump to 4, 4" cylinder stones (one under each netpot). If either my air pump or water pump goes out, things will still work until I get a replacement.

Redundancy

 

[JSB99]

Winterized the room. The hood air intake now draws air from the hallway vent through the closet, and the fan exhausts the air directly into the room. My house is usually between 64 and 66 degrees, which is comfortable to me, and the room stays between 75 and 79 degrees. Because the fan creates positive pressure in the room, the room exhausts the warm air into the adjacent room. If I get the odd, out of season, warm day, all I have to do is slip the ceiling exhaust duct onto the fan. Probably take a few seconds!

After this grow I'm going to add another vent, which will be used by the hood's intake, and then I'll reconnect the 4" fan. The new duct will be connected to a vent in the adjacent closet. The reason I'm not going to use the hood fan for double duty, as cooling the closet as well as cooling the light is because the hood's demand and the closet's demand will be different from each other.

 

[JSB99]

Bud porn from my inside/outside girl. If I had known I was going to put her outside from the start, I would have done some things differently, that would have increased yield. But, I still got a pretty decent amount.

 

[JSB99]

Week-5

 

[XipXipXoom]

I took this same idea to heart years ago and I designed my RDWC system with waterfalls in each tubsite. It works great and I only need one pump for the whole system.

Don't let grumpy posters chase you off. Clearly you have plenty to contribute and I'm interested in hearing it!

OK well then let me continue. Oxygen is only one half of roots respiration. Roots inspire oxygen and expire CO2. So getting rid of the CO2 is just as important as introducing fresh oxygen. This is where the increased circulation from larger bubbles is beneficial, and this is why rooms with Co2 supplementation should have their air pumps, and reservoirs if possible, in a different, non-CO2 enriched room.

Compare this to humans. What happens if you give a healthy person 50% or 100% oxygen for an extended period of time? Their respiratory drive goes down, their breaths get shallower and less breathes per minute. They are still getting enough O2, but since their rate of respiration has gone down, CO2 builds up in their blood, driving their blood pH down. Same thing happens with plants. You need to get rid of the CO2 and supply O2, and this is where sufficient circulation is important.

Look at the circulation caused by this course bubble diffuser. There are smaller bubbles moving laterally, and even downward, all around the tank. You can have too much turbulence when you start tearing roots, though.

Now compare that to this conventional airstone and O2 grow emitter.

WAY less circulation around the tank with the smaller bubbles. Yes they are supplying plenty of o2, but they are doing much less for circulation and surface agitation, and you need to get the respired CO2 up and out of the surface. Ideally you would have a combination of large and small bubbles, but the typical aquarium airstones put out bubbles smaller than ideal for plant roots IMO

 

[rkymtnman]

OK well then let me continue. Oxygen is only one half of roots respiration. Roots inspire oxygen and expire CO2. So getting rid of the CO2 is just as important as introducing fresh oxygen. This is where the increased circulation from larger bubbles is beneficial, and this is why rooms with Co2 supplementation should have their air pumps, and reservoirs if possible, in a different, non-CO2 enriched room.

Compare this to humans. What happens if you give a healthy person 50% or %100 oxygen for an extended period of time? Their respiratory drive goes down, their breaths get shallower and less breathes per minute. They are still getting enough O2, but since their rate of respiration has gone down, CO2 builds up in their blood, driving their blood pH down. Same thing happens with plants. You need to get rid of the CO2 and supply O2, and this is where respiration/circulation is important.

Look at the circulation caused by this course bubble diffuser. There are smaller bubbles moving laterally, and even downward, all around the tank. You can have too much turbulence when you start tearing roots, though.

Now compare that to this conventional airstone and O2 grow emitter.

WAY less circulation around the tank with the smaller bubbles. Yes they are supplying plenty of o2, but they are doing much less for circulation and surface agitation, and you need to get the respired CO2 up and out of the surface. Ideally you would have a combination or large and small/micro/nano bubbles, but the typical aquarium airstones put out bubbles smaller than ideal for plant growth IMO

build a waterfall, ditch the airstones. problem solved with a 4 dollar water pump, some tubing and a few 90deg fittings

 

[XipXipXoom]

build a waterfall, ditch the airstones. problem solved with a 4 dollar water pump, some tubing and a few 90deg fittings

I agree. Circulation is most important.

 

[rkymtnman]

I agree. Circulation is most important.

that and they create more DO than an airstone/airpump and keep your nutes well mixed too.

 

[ttystikk]

that and they create more DO than an airstone/airpump and keep your nutes well mixed too.

Pushing nutrient solution through the roots is very helpful in both oxygenation and ensuring they get all the nutes they want.

 

[ttystikk]

OK well then let me continue. Oxygen is only one half of roots respiration. Roots inspire oxygen and expire CO2. So getting rid of the CO2 is just as important as introducing fresh oxygen. This is where the increased circulation from larger bubbles is beneficial, and this is why rooms with Co2 supplementation should have their air pumps, and reservoirs if possible, in a different, non-CO2 enriched room.

Compare this to humans. What happens if you give a healthy person 50% or 100% oxygen for an extended period of time? Their respiratory drive goes down, their breaths get shallower and less breathes per minute. They are still getting enough O2, but since their rate of respiration has gone down, CO2 builds up in their blood, driving their blood pH down. Same thing happens with plants. You need to get rid of the CO2 and supply O2, and this is where sufficient circulation is important.

Look at the circulation caused by this course bubble diffuser. There are smaller bubbles moving laterally, and even downward, all around the tank. You can have too much turbulence when you start tearing roots, though.

Now compare that to this conventional airstone and O2 grow emitter.

WAY less circulation around the tank with the smaller bubbles. Yes they are supplying plenty of o2, but they are doing much less for circulation and surface agitation, and you need to get the respired CO2 up and out of the surface. Ideally you would have a combination of large and small bubbles, but the typical aquarium airstones put out bubbles smaller than ideal for plant roots IMO

If this were the case, then no deep water culture system would work. CO2 at the soil level doesn't come from roots, it comes from decomposition and composting in the soil.

 

[Budget Buds]

Winterized the room.
ATTACH=full]4023013[/ATTACH] View attachment 4023014 View attachment 4023015

A nice clean room, organized and efficient, I like it and see so few rooms like them , Great job BB

 

[JSB99]

A nice clean room, organized and efficient, I like it and see so few rooms like them , Great job BB

Thanks BB! I didn't want an eyesore in my house since it's probably going to be like that for years. But more important than that is that maintenance is so minimal with this setup! It took a lot of planning and work to build, but a lot of issues have been avoided.

 

[dstroy]

If this were the case, then no deep water culture system would work. CO2 at the soil level doesn't come from roots, it comes from decomposition and composting in the soil.

He linked to an O2grow vid which makes me immediately suspicious.

 

[XipXipXoom]

If this were the case, then no deep water culture system would work. CO2 at the soil level doesn't come from roots, it comes from decomposition and composting in the soil.

only part of the co2 comes from microflora/fauna, but up to 50% of the co2 in soil come from the roots.

From wikipedia

Soil respiration refers to the production of carbon dioxide when soil organisms respire. This includes respiration of plant roots, the rhizosphere, microbes and fauna.

He linked to an O2grow vid which makes me immediately suspicious.

If you suspect I'm a shill for o2grow, I don't see why. If anything, my post points out that o2grow does nothing for removal of co2.

 

[ttystikk]

only part of the co2 comes from microflora/fauna, but up to 50% of the co2 in soil come from the roots.

And why is it relevant?

 

[dstroy]

Small bubbles can also get stuck/cling to the roots easier, and gaseous oxygen is of no use to roots. It has to be dissolved. Not saying you can't have healthy roots with small bubbles, just postulating the idea that large ones may, at least in some ways, be better. Airstones restrict the volume of airflow in any case. Easier maintenance with open hose, too. Not a bad idea. I saw a grow once that had 4 screens. It was all 4-5ft tall lollipops, no branches, recirculating drip in Rockwool cubes.

Gaseous oxygen is of no use to roots?

Better go tell that to literally every plant that's growing in dirt.

Before you open your mouth and start trying to tell other people "how it is", you should be certain yourself.

Of course roots can absorb gaseous oxygen.

The best part is that you link to a Wikipedia article on soil respiration, which is only part of the picture, and doesn't support your position.

 

[JSB99]

Gaseous oxygen is of no use to roots?

Better go tell that to literally every plant that's growing in dirt.

Before you open your mouth and start trying to tell other people "how it is", you should be certain yourself.

Of course roots can absorb gaseous oxygen.

The best part is that you link to a Wikipedia article on soil respiration, which is only part of the picture, and doesn't support your position.

I think someone's representing a product that does nothing more than what's already being done, but with a shiny new paint job and a price tag above what any experienced grower would dare spend.

@XipXipXoom, all you've shown us are smaller bubbles! Show us a side by side comparison, or at least a grow you, or anyone else, have completed using this method! After all, how are we supposed to be convinced it works if we can't even see the end results?!?

Again, if this worked, it would already be used by lots of advanced growers. But you, obviously an inexperienced grower, are touting this as the next big breakthrough, based only on an untested theory someone convinced you of reading.