F Series driver recommendation

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
And every additional strip wired in parallel gets to share the available current which then drops the output. If the driver can hit a max of 7.2A then at five strips they're each seeing only 1.44A, and at eight only .900mA. In effect they become goldfish when I want a sharks with lasers on their heads.
Adding more strips and reducing the current yields more light overall as the L/W increases and temps drop.

The efficacy of the 3500K strip jumps from 171 to 190 lm/W when driven to 1800mA
You are misinterpreting that line. What those three numbers mean is a given diode from that color bin will "typically" have an efficiency of 171 @ 1.12 A, and some will have a lower range of efficiency or "minimum" of 154 @1.12A and some will have a higher efficiency of up to 190 @ 1.12A. That is where they further break them down into efficiency bins also referred to as the "S bins" - S4, S5 and S6. The ones that test in the lower third of the range will be binned "S4" and the ones in the middle of the range will be the "S5" bin and the ones in the upper range will be the "S6" bin.

Edit: the S bins apply to the individual diodes, but the concept is the same for the strips - some will test with the lower efficiency, most will be in the middle and some at the higher end.

LEDs will ALWAYS have a higher L/W at lower amperage and pushing them harder ALWAYS reduces their L/W.
 
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Rider509

Well-Known Member
Adding more strips and reducing the current yields more light overall as the L/W increases and temps drop.


You are misinterpreting that line. What those three numbers mean is a given diode from that color bin will "typically" have an efficiency of 171 @ 1.12 A, and some will have a lower range of efficiency or "minimum" of 154 @1.12A and some will have a higher efficiency of up to 190 @ 1.12A. That is where they further break them down into efficiency bins also referred to as the "S bins" - S4, S5 and S6. The ones that test in the lower third of the range will be binned "S4" and the ones in the middle of the range will be the "S5" bin and the ones in the upper range will be the "S6" bin.

LEDs will ALWAYS have a higher L/W at lower amperage and pushing them harder ALWAYS reduces their L/W.
Oh jeez, that should have been so obvious! You are absolutely correct... I've been looking at those specs all wrong. How embarrassing. :oops:

Thank you all for taking the time to help. It's very much appreciated.
 

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
Oh jeez, that should have been so obvious! You are absolutely correct... I've been looking at those specs all wrong. How embarrassing. :oops:
Don't feel bad, its easy to misunderstand these sheets if your not used to looking at this kind of stuff day in and day out
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
That means my thoughts on using the 185H-C1050B for four of those strips is based on bad interpretation of data and I need to consider max voltage rather than typical? 48.4Vf rather than 46Vf per the above spec sheet? I swear, my head is going to explode. I know I could just go with what's been recommended but I REALLY want to understand so I'm not asking the same questions in the future, and then maybe I'll be able to help someone else understand it.
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
Also, the data sheet shows the specs when operated at 65C°, it's not stating that they will operate at 65C°. To be honest, you might go back and re-read, the other guys have posted good info.
Thank you. Good advice. I can look at it with a better understanding the second time through.
 

1212ham

Well-Known Member
I think that datasheet could be better. Many others have a lot more info and graphs showing the relationship of voltage, current and temperature. My guess is they will run very close to 46V at rated current. Certainly some one here has measured voltage on these? Constant voltage drivers can be easier and more versatile. And so safe, a cave man could do it.

BTW, the efficiency of the HLG drivers vary, so look at the datasheets. They are better at 240vac rather than 120vac and It seems the bigger/newer models have improved.

Also, as I learned from cobkits, some HLG drivers significantly exceed their ratings. There are data sheets AND test reports. I think the A version of the HLG-185 can actually put out something like 240 watts!
 
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kony brado

Well-Known Member
I use 18 f strips (2 feet 1 raw) on a hlg 320h-c2100 .
Parallel the driver output to 3 parallel strings each running 6 stripes in series (700ma) .
Works great .Stripes are 60c~ with no heat sink.
I dont know about running them at 1.8 amps ,they will get hot without proper thermal management.
:peace::peace::peace:
 

kony brado

Well-Known Member
I think that datasheet could be better. Many others have a lot more info and graphs showing the relationship of voltage, current and temperature. My guess is they will run very close to 46V at rated current. Certainly some one here has measured voltage on these? Constant voltage drivers can be easier and more versatile. And so safe, a cave man could do it. BTW, the efficiency of the HLG drivers vary, so look at the datasheets. They are better at 240vac rather than 120vac and It seems the bigger/newer models have improved.
hi there
You can read the lm516c data sheet for more info and graphs .
Best is to use the samsung calculator ,than you can play with the current and temperature.

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/led/support/tools/calculator-pkg

:peace::peace::peace:
 

nc208

Well-Known Member
I use 18 f strips (2 feet 1 raw) on a hlg 320h-c2100 .
Parallel the driver output to 3 parallel strings each running 6 stripes in series (700ma) .
Works great .Stripes are 60c~ with no heat sink.
I dont know about running them at 1.8 amps ,they will get hot without proper thermal management.
:peace::peace::peace:
Sorry but I have to ask to clarify, your running your strips at 60 degrees Celsius?
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
I already have a bunch of 320H-C2100Bs for my 3590s and I just received a 185H-C1050B for testing.

H Series Gen3 44" strips (eight in hand)
I'm going to set these strips up with eight in series running on the 185H, and six in series on a 320H. They run a Vf typical of 22.5.

F Series Gen3 22" double row (waiting on shipment of four)
I'll run four of them on the 185H-C1050B in series. They run a Vf typ of 46.

For each of these test builds I'll check temps, voltages, and PAR at various current levels. I'll post back in this forum (not thread) when I've got the numbers
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
Constant voltage drivers can be easier and more versatile. And so safe, a cave man could do it.
I'm just getting a firm grip on the CC driver/Samsung led strip relationship and now you want to throw CV in there? HA! You just want to see my head explode. I may BE a caveman. :)
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Like you, my head was about to explode when I started looking at all this. But after a while, it all seemed to make sense. Have a look at the Forward Voltage vs Forward Current graph on page 21 of the LM561c spec sheet: http://www.samsung.com/global/business/business-images/led/file/product/lighting/201511/Data_Sheet_LM561C_Rev.3.2.pdf

LEDs are resistors, so the more current you put through them, the more resistance they offer.

According to the graph, when you put 80ma through each diode (40% of their rated power), their individual voltage drops 2.8v. For four strips in series, that would be (2.8v x 16s = 44.8v) x 4 boards = 179.2v total, and you would use (0.080a x 9p) 0.72a to power them for a total wattage of 129.02w.

Have another look at the graph where the line intersects 160ma and roughly 2.94v. Do the maths and you get 47.04v for each board (188.16v total in series) @ 1.44a for 270.9504w.

So do you see how the more current you put through each board, the higher the voltage drop?

It's not linear - you would at first expect that double the current equals double the wattage, but in fact the wattage has gone up by more than 2x because the individual voltage has also increased.

For the sake of drivers (and hopefully I won't get my figures mixed up this time!), a HLG-240H-C1400a would drive the first example (it would be 0.2v over the 179v max, so would likely just handle it), but not the second example - because even though it can provide 1.4a, it can't provide it at 188.16v. You need to find another driver. Also, the total wattage (271w) is a giveaway, because the 240 series drivers are only rated to 240-250w, though I understand they will actually put out a little more.

Each strip would only drop 48.4v if you were running them at max 1.8a, but at a more conservative (recommended) 1.12a, they drop about 46v - that's where the 1.12a/46v figures come from in the Samsung spec sheet for each strip.

I chose a 240 series driver to power four strips for three reasons: cost-effective (2x 240s appear to be cheaper than 1x 480); a smaller driver is more efficient than a larger driver powering the same number of boards (from my understanding); and lastly, I didn't really want to drive my boards much higher than 70%, so the 240H-48 in parallel fits the bill perfectly. In fact, I'll probably only be driving my boards at about 60%, so I could have gone with the 240H-C1050A in series, but the 48 gives me the option of a bit more available power if I need it, even though I will dim it down.

My suggestion? Run 4x strips on a 240 series, then when you buy another four strips, buy another 240 series driver - cheaper than 8x strips/1x480 with a lot more flexibility. You could run two channels (different CCT strips) etc or whatever you want.

I hope that all makes sense. I'm pretty sure my numbers are right this time :oops:
 

kony brado

Well-Known Member
Sorry but I have to ask to clarify, your running your strips at 60 degrees Celsius?
No I have them on a sink,this data was for reference only ,for the readers to understand the 700ma -60c connection .
In the data sheet they say 65c at 1.12A ,I think its because they use 1 stripe. In my data I used 18, 9 next to each other and 9 in extantion (2feet +2feet like a 4feet stripe) they are spaced 2cm from each other .
Hope its clear now,sorry for the lack of info.
i think 60c is ok to run,its way under specs limit ,but i use the 3mm alu sheet as a thermal bed to equalize temps from strip to strip and get more light and a safer design .
thank's
:peace::peace::peace:
 

Rider509

Well-Known Member
Thank you, @Prawn Connery! Those LM561C graphs made everything clear. And your explanation was perfect and easy to follow. Everything is illuminated! LOL
Once you grasp the design characteristics of the individual led and then extrapolate to the S/P construction of the led strip you're interested in designing around it becomes a simple math problem. And I understand now the diminishing returns when driving the leds hard due to the non-linear relationship of current and voltage. It also makes reverse engineering a system, i.e., starting from a desired system wattage and working backwards to see the impact on a single led possible.
It's been over 30 years since I got my electrical engineering degree, and I've never used it since. You have definitely helped get those wheels turning again. Your efforts are very much appreciated.
 
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