PPM Question

Chris Edward

Chris Edward

Well-Known Member
Hello all,
I have a question about PPM…

I have been using the “grow bosses” 75ppm each week and to be honest my plants look thin and tired.
None of my plants have grown to it’s full potential; they are nice but small for 7 weeks.

The plants grow slowly until about 525ppm is given but by this time the main stalk is already established and cropping options are limited and the plant should be in flower but they seem too small to put into flower…

I took a clone and stuck it in my lettuce tray which uses 700ppm, this clone is doing great, no sign of “too many nutes” it is bright and perky just like a clone should be.
At 75ppm the original plants barely grew and took almost twice as long then they should have to get to repotting size.
The clone I just took, took a while to start, I just put it in some water (pH balanced + silica) and no humidity dome so it has taken about three weeks for roots to start and it wilted pretty hard. Now after about a week in the lettuce starting tray it has a lot of new tiny leaves, the new growth is dense and close together, and the leaves are bright green and the plant looks great.

So my question is, is the 75ppm each week nonsense?
Should I just give 700ppm from the start?
What's a good ppm schedule?

I would love to know what everyone else does.

Thanks for all your help, Chris
 
Chris Edward

Chris Edward

Well-Known Member
Hello Budman111,
Thank you for your response!!!

Can you suggest a good ppm schedule?
I use a commercial fertilizer so I don't go by tsp, or ml of fertilizer, I measure it all in grams dry weight which allows me to almost pinpoint the ppm or EC.
The fertilizer is 20-18-36 (Masterblend + Calcium Nitrate + Magnesium, always in a pH balanced silica source water)

The Grow Boss is a guy who does a lot of YouTube videos
There's a photo of him in the attachment
He says over and over 75ppm per week, and all sorts of other things like his audience is stupid and needs to be reminded every few moments.

Thank you again, Chris
 

Attachments

xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
First thing I would do is stop listening to this grow boss guy. He's a salesman. He's selling books and advertising. He gets paid everytime someone watches his video's. You'll see specific products in clear view. Those are his advertisers.

The 75 ppm a week is nonsense. Start your rooted clones at 1/4 - 1/2 strength and go up from there as the plant grows. Also, some nutrient lines have you overfeeding your plants. Keep an eye on the ppm's as you mix the solution. I never go over 1000 ppm ever but some nutrient lines will have you pushing 1500 ppm if you go by their directions. Then dump all those additives that so many people think they need into the mix and you end up with all kinds of issues.

The best thing you could do is not listen to the grow boss and get a decent book on growing marijuana.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS714US714&q=marijuana+grow+basics&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGWRPUvDQBjHvUGx1xZqigjBoTiIg5CX5tVVRASLoB3cQu6SJmmSuzSJeenHEDdnN7-I_QCODm5-A0cl5EVw_D2_e_735253-2jAOZwgIqKJhRiIB6EZe8sHk5gTJ6a5R5wJotRPNgByIcdLZZBl7gZUS6WVq6KVLBuXW4li1E5MkVSsBFSjkGm8IgirxqJQVNVS7tDARqg3GOlO7rikzlWIhsO0PUqKSOajDqveDWq40Iwl_tNIUzdgWFXAiYy0NfG7Sx3JJ0WjkWLpeWzoXTLKFnre4ZQUcrdMjCnytRZjCa-J21klz8q8roGFIoxI60rVXelSixGPEov_BC-gP_r6_hizz-Dx9e0dPAE4uqY0sYPy1g7M1LbmlDmGOxck9dKSOYRDtlc9jxvh6ckW24cdMvewf2enczqjlrcomSvmEvZmdojsOLlZMGcQntMgsHHqUcKcwn12j8PtgKs-_DdxDP-PBz-8KfL_MgIAAA&npsic=0&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL66H0hezWAhWng1QKHRBsACAQ-BYIUg
 
Chris Edward

Chris Edward

Well-Known Member
Hello Xtsho,
Thank you for the reply.
I agree the "grow boss" is a salesman.
I just use silica because it gets so hot here in the summer, otherwise the plants wilt during the day from the heat.
I use it on everything, lettuce, bok choy, basil, otherwise they wilt because it gets like 85 degrees F in the grow room.
Now that it is cooler I don't have to use it anymore.

I will try your idea on the new clones I just took.
200-250 to start and never above 1,000ppm's sounds good.
Do I need to ramp it up each week or only when I switch from veg to flower?
Or can I just go from say 200-250 as clones to say 500 once they are potted up and then a week later 750ppm and then a week later 1,000ppm's?
i just need an idea of what to do.

The plants I have going now are doing so much better now that they are getting 525ppm's but I wish I had started them out on stronger nutes sooner, because they are stretching and using the scrog as a support rather then it's intended purpose.

The little clone I took earlier is in 700ppm nutrient solution and it is kicking butt!!!

Thanks for the link but so many of the "basics" pages are crap because they are so vague.
Is there a specific page you could suggest?
I just want to know how much to fertilize during the veg cycle and how much to fertilize during the flower cycle.
It's like veggies, like peppers, you fertilize at 850ppm's during veg and then cut the calcium nitrate back to 1/3 during flower so the buds don't drop off and you get nice clean peppers.
On the other hand with tomatoes, you need to keep the calcium nitrate in so the tomatoes don't get blossom end rot.
So I just need guidelines on what to do.

By the way I am using Dutch (Bato) Buckets.

Thank for all your help!!!
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
I don't know what medium you are growing in. Sounds like you are hydro from your "lettuce tray" reference. I grow in coco and fabric pots which gets fed every watering. In soil there are many variables. Type of soil, soil amendments, etc... all have to be taken into account.

For coco I typically start out rooted clones and mature seedlings in 1/2 strength which around 300 PPM's. After a week or when I start to see roots poking out the sides of the fabric pots I go to full strength which is 620 PPM's. When I go to flower and add flowering nutes the PPM's go up to 700. That's going by the directions on the nutes I use. I have used these nutes in the past for flood and drain hydro at the same levels. I never have deficiencies or burnt plants.

Here is a post I made awhile back. It's somewhat related.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/best-nutes-for-flowering-stages.949091/page-2#post-13814647

xtsho said:
I just follow the recommended amounts on the label. The nitrogen isn't reduced going into flower. You just add part C mono potassium phosphate. I think the reason I don't have any calcium issues in coco is because the calcium nitrate is used throughout the grow till the end. I do add some epsom salts about week three through week five in flower but only half a teaspoon per gallon. I also add .25 grams per gallon of 95% fulvic acid. I start reducing the nutrient strength around week six and by harvest I'm running 1/4 strength nutrients. I use blumats for irrigating also. It's been working great and it's really easy. Years ago when I was using every other additive like many do I was having the same problems that many end up having. Now all I have is healthy plants with very little work and I'm not wasting my money on a bunch of marketing and products that contain the same stuff I'm using. The guy that started VitaGrow is a master gardener. The big grows in warehouses in Portland Oregon are not using Advanced Nutrients. They're using the same stuff I am and mixing it according to their needs. This is how commercial agriculture feeds the crops that feed America.

I just mixed a batch so here are the ppm's:

Water = 80
Part A Micro Nutrients = 190
Part B Calcium Nitrate = 350
Part C Mono Potassium Phosphate= 80

Total PPM's Veg = 620
Total PPM's Bloom = 700



41 days into flower:
Click to expand...
 
Chris Edward

Chris Edward

Well-Known Member
I use a modular Dutch bucket hydro system.
Instead of all the buckets being attached to a single reservoir, each bucket is attached to its own reservoir.
Kratky for lettuce and greens.
Dutch bucket for tall plants.

The Dutch bucket systems get fed with each watering cycle, which for my climate is every 3 hours for 15minutes otherwise the roots dry out too much between waterings.
I feed a given amount of fertilizer per plant per week, top off water is pH+silica so they don't get too much fertilizer and burn.
But seeing your schedule, I see I am under fertilizing so the chances of burning are even less, which explains their sad growth.

Thanks xtsho!!!
 
ch33b

ch33b

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
I don't know what medium you are growing in. Sounds like you are hydro from your "lettuce tray" reference. I grow in coco and fabric pots which gets fed every watering. In soil there are many variables. Type of soil, soil amendments, etc... all have to be taken into account.

For coco I typically start out rooted clones and mature seedlings in 1/2 strength which around 300 PPM's. After a week or when I start to see roots poking out the sides of the fabric pots I go to full strength which is 620 PPM's. When I go to flower and add flowering nutes the PPM's go up to 700. That's going by the directions on the nutes I use. I have used these nutes in the past for flood and drain hydro at the same levels. I never have deficiencies or burnt plants.

Here is a post I made awhile back. It's somewhat related.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/best-nutes-for-flowering-stages.949091/page-2#post-13814647
Click to expand...

XTSHO is on the money! (COCO4 Life) 75ppm is you spinning your wheels. whoever this grow boss guy is... NOT A BOSS... not sure your nutrients.. but they typically have a chart they recommend for certain types of grows IE: Drain to Waste. COCO, SOIL ... I usually start my plants around 350-400 and slowly work up ... I don't go higher then 1000 either...
 
boilingoil

boilingoil

Well-Known Member
I'm a notorious low ppm feeder. In coir my veg feeds are 450 ppm (0.9 ec). Flower feeds max at 550 ppm ( 1.1 ec). Heck, 70 ppm is what I start with just for calcium with my RO.
 
ruwtz

ruwtz

Well-Known Member
boilingoil said:
I'm a notorious low ppm feeder. In coir my veg feeds are 450 ppm (0.9 ec). Flower feeds max at 550 ppm ( 1.1 ec). Heck, 70 ppm is what I start with just for calcium with my RO.
Click to expand...
There's an important part to this that folks need to remember and that is fertigation rate; basically the number of times you feed per day and total quantity given. In an automated watering system such as drippers it is essential to know the flow rate so that you can accurately determine the volume of solution any given plant is provided with and how often per day. These facts correlate with your solution concentration (TDS or EC).

Eg. if I feed 3 times per day at 1 minute intervals I know I can mix my res at a higher EC than if I fed at 7 times per day at the same intervals. I max at 7 x 1 min in peak bloom and my EC is never over 1.2EC at that point.

This is very important if you want to avoid lockouts and salt buildup with a healthy root zone start to finish.
 
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