Should I double up for mite eradication/control?

[SchmoeJoe]

I used Forbid and don't see any mites moving. What I'm worried about now is Thrips. See pics posted and lemme know what you think?

I don't see any of the kind of thrip damage that I'm familiar with. I only ever had to deal with them once, though, and that was a long time ago. I see the old more damage and the larger spots on the leaves look like the kind of burn that happens when the plants have standing water on them under intense light.

 

[DirtDigginChick]

These are in veg under very low fluorescent lights.(I've lost about half my lighting in the last 2 months) I've had some water issues, but it's usually on the dry end... these markings came before I was treating my mites

 

[SchmoeJoe]

These are in veg under very low fluorescent lights.(I've lost about half my lighting in the last 2 months) I've had some water issues, but it's usually on the dry end... these markings came before I was treating my mites

Ok, why do you think you have thrips?

 

[DirtDigginChick]

Cause I saw some on a bean plant that I was helping out with in an indoor Ag grow for my company and I went to the growweedeasy website and the shit on my plants looks like what they say thrips would look like on weed. Not the same as it looks on beans. I guess I'm doing the chick thing and really making it worse than it could be. Really, I have plants that are coming out of a terrible mite infestation well, and I'm finding problems. Sound about right? LOL

 

[SchmoeJoe]

Cause I saw some on a bean plant that I was helping out with in an indoor Ag grow for my company and I went to the growweedeasy website and the shit on my plants looks like what they say thrips would look like on weed. Not the same as it looks on beans. I guess I'm doing the chick thing and really making it worse than it could be. Really, I have plants that are coming out of a terrible mite infestation well, and I'm finding problems. Sound about right? LOL

Yeah, I know that feeling. When I had thrips all I ever saw was an erratic line of discoloration in the leaves from where they did their thing.

 

[DirtDigginChick]

Yeah, I know that feeling. When I had thrips all I ever saw was an erratic line of discoloration in the leaves from where they did their thing.

Does this look like the same thing to you? I know I have fungus gnats but if there were thrips and I didn't realize it, that would be understandable.

 

[Jtaylor507]

Im in the same situation. Getting ready to start my indoor.
My old uncle suggested dusting during veg and just before flowering with diatomatius earth. Used it on my zuchinni and it seemed to work, year before i got infested with them. Any reasoning against that from anyone?

 

[DirtDigginChick]

Im in the same situation. Getting ready to start my indoor.
My old uncle suggested dusting during veg and just before flowering with diatomatius earth. Used it on my zuchinni and it seemed to work, year before i got infested with them. Any reasoning against that from anyone?

I've used DE, the couple problems I have with it are the dust, application - can be a total bitch, and the upkeep - you have to keep up on it every couple days IMO. It works great, just a real pain in the ass all-around.

 

[GreenLogician]

Im in the same situation. Getting ready to start my indoor.
My old uncle suggested dusting during veg and just before flowering with diatomatius earth. Used it on my zuchinni and it seemed to work, year before i got infested with them. Any reasoning against that from anyone?

Coating the leaves with it will reduce photosynthesis by some fraction?

 

[Jtaylor507]

Only applied it once outdoors, used a hand powered duster. Didnt seem to hurt the plants a bit. Would be pretty messy indoor.

 

[Dr. Who]

The carrier used for pyrethrum bombs is a long lasting systemic. I wouldn't go anywhere near it for vegging plants. For regular mites I've never had to use anything more drastic than Azamax or spinosad. The trick is to be sure that you hit every surface of the plant and to it at least three times once every three days. Doing three treatments on this schedule has always been 100% effective for me.

Dr. Zymes can even be used on any stage of flowering plant and it's effective for russet/broad mites but it's expensive so I'd leave it for those mites and/or flowering plants that you don't want to go anywhere near with other things.

@DirtDigginChick You should take note of this - facts!

THIS STATEMENT IS 100% BULL SHIT! Bug bomb's are NOT systemic in plants- PERIOD!

There are 2 active ingr. In Bomb's made for cannabis - specifically Dr. Doom's insect bomb. Only one kills the bugs and that, is a contact killer.

1: Pyrethrins - organic or man made.
and
2: piperonyl butoxide or PBO The action of this is considered a "synergist". See below...

Pyrethrins last only hrs.

PBO is not designed to kill insects by itself. Insects have enzymes in their bodies that break down some insecticides. PBO stops some of these enzymes and allows insecticides more time to work. This means insects are less likely to recover from the combination of PBO and certain insecticides. This makes it a synergist.

The inert ingr. Have No effect on the active ingr. in any way, shape, or form!

Nothing in these create a "systemic" absorption into a plant. Neither of these active ingr. are "absorbed " by any plant in the first place.

Over the counter flea and tick bomb's?

These work too. And do not make the product systemic in any plant !!!!

Breakdown:

Active Ingredients
Pyrethrins 0.05%

(S)-cyano(3-phenoxyphenyl)methyl-(S)-4-chloro-alpha-(1-methylethyl)benzeneacetate. 0.10% = Is a synthetic pyrethroid insecticide which is used on a wide range of pests.

*Piperonyl butoxide 0.10%

**N-Octyl bicycloheptene dicarboximide 0.16%

***2-[1-Methyl-2-(4-phenoxyphenoxy) ethoxyl] pyridine 0.10%

OTHER INERT INGREDIENTS 99.49%

Total

100.00%

* (butylcarbityl) (6-propyipiperonyl) ether and related compounds - Synergist

** MGK® 264, Insecticide Synergist

***Nylar, Insect Growth Regulator = Does not effect plants or the reactions of the contents of the bug bomb to the plant!


I don't know where you get this idea of systemic action by use of bug bomb crap.....

 

[VegasWinner]

Have you tried Method One?
https://growthefficiency.com/introducing-method-1-pps/


Growth Efficiency Technologies is proud to introduce Method 1-pps to the world. This initial offering is one of a series of products with ingredients that are generally considered harmless and non-toxic, targeted for use in Integrated Pest Management. By not incorporating any poisons into this product we are assuring that your plant products can be free of dangerous volatile chemical compounds for the protection of growers, processors and end users.

Method 1-pps is primarily intended to address the major pest and disease problems that are common, namely spider mites, thrips, whiteflies, aphids, mealy bugs, mold, and mildew. In coming articles we will discuss these specific issues and how they can be controlled without the use of dangerous chemicals.

In the US, each year close to five billion pounds of these dangerous compounds are dumped into our environment to control various pests. Yes, I said five billion. It has increased every year. Now, it stands to reason that if they actually worked then we wouldn’t need to increase that every year. While they do initially kill most of the pests in a specific location, there are always survivors and unhatched eggs. Beneficial insects and microbes are also destroyed at the same time. These pests develop resistance and without enemies will soon bloom into a bigger problem. This in turn necessitates new poisons and ever increasing frequency and quantity of applications, an undesirable spiral of events. At Growth Efficiency Technologies we are going in the other direction.

Method 1-pps is a plant protection system (pps) that is used via foliar application. It kills living spider mites on contact and will also kill some of the eggs. What’s that? you say. It only kills some of the eggs? Yes, that is the truth. The rest of the truth is that there is nothing that you would want to put on things humans consume that kills all of the eggs. So how does this work then? With a little knowledge of the pest you are dealing with it is not that hard. We can help.

Dangerous methods and materials don’t make any sense and present a clear danger to end consumers. In future articles we will address what can be done to deal with these problems in a way that is more safe and attuned to nature.

peace

 

[Odin*]

First two pics show thrip damage. To your eyes the damage will appear as a “sheen”.

The next couple pics show rough and/or curled leaves, as well as some “wonky” new growth. This could be due to ph/deficiencies/imbalances, but it could also be a sign of a russet/broad mite infestation. You will need to view the underside of the leaves at around 100x magnification to identify them/remove doubt.

 

[SchmoeJoe]

@DirtDigginChick You should take note of this - facts!

THIS STATEMENT IS 100% BULL SHIT! Bug bomb's are NOT systemic in plants- PERIOD!

There are 2 active ingr. In Bomb's made for cannabis - specifically Dr. Doom's insect bomb. Only one kills the bugs and that, is a contact killer.

1: Pyrethrins - organic or man made.
and
2: piperonyl butoxide or PBO The action of this is considered a "synergist". See below...

Pyrethrins last only hrs.

PBO is not designed to kill insects by itself. Insects have enzymes in their bodies that break down some insecticides. PBO stops some of these enzymes and allows insecticides more time to work. This means insects are less likely to recover from the combination of PBO and certain insecticides. This makes it a synergist.

The inert ingr. Have No effect on the active ingr. in any way, shape, or form!

Nothing in these create a "systemic" absorption into a plant. Neither of these active ingr. are "absorbed " by any plant in the first place.

Over the counter flea and tick bomb's?

These work too. And do not make the product systemic in any plant !!!!

Breakdown:

Active Ingredients
Pyrethrins 0.05%

(S)-cyano(3-phenoxyphenyl)methyl-(S)-4-chloro-alpha-(1-methylethyl)benzeneacetate. 0.10% = Is a synthetic pyrethroid insecticide which is used on a wide range of pests.

*Piperonyl butoxide 0.10%

**N-Octyl bicycloheptene dicarboximide 0.16%

***2-[1-Methyl-2-(4-phenoxyphenoxy) ethoxyl] pyridine 0.10%

OTHER INERT INGREDIENTS 99.49%

Total

100.00%

* (butylcarbityl) (6-propyipiperonyl) ether and related compounds - Synergist

** MGK® 264, Insecticide Synergist

***Nylar, Insect Growth Regulator = Does not effect plants or the reactions of the contents of the bug bomb to the plant!


I don't know where you get this idea of systemic action by use of bug bomb crap.....

Yeah, I had to go back over everything. The issue I have with it is that persists for a long time. Systemic was definitely the wrong term.

Pyrethrins themselves start breaking down almost immediately with exposure to UV light and moisture. The issue is the piperonyl butoxide. It's purpose is to make the pyrethrins persist longer to make them more effective. The main reason I say to stay away from it is that I've seen examples of rooms that had piperonyl butoxide being found in the walls long after use. If it lasts that long I'd rather just not mess with it. Not to mention that there are plenty of alternatives.

 

[SchmoeJoe]

Alright, I didn't spray at 14 days since I didn't see any guys moving. I did spray outside and all-around the room for any chance of pests coming in. I've recently discovered thrips on an indoor grow at another location with some actual herbs and veggies that are being grown indoors(MI). I'm helping with soil components with this grow and they thought they were having issues with fungus. Nope, full-on thrip infestation. All plants were ripped and thrown in the snow.

I'm not seeing any of the little worms that I saw on the leaves of the plants with the thrips on my ladies, but now I'm concerned that I may actually be dealing with thrips, not mites...My new growth isn't infected with bugs that I can see, but it does have the curvy leaves too...Also, growing in a pole barn when temps go from 90F to 10F could be the culprit. Aaaannnd I have a few girls that are in smaller pots that need to be up-potted and they have been experiencing issues with water consistency since the heater was turned on.

At this point I'm looking for constructive answers to these problems, I don't need someone telling me I'm a terrible grower. I work a ton of hours and the only person I have helping out is my 60-something yr old mother. I do this for her to make sure she doesn't have to buy off some dude that's shady af. I try my best to keep these girls healthy but this batch has been the worst for pests and problems. Thanks for all your guys' help so far!! View attachment 4041580 View attachment 4041581 View attachment 4041582 View attachment 4041583

After looking a bit closer I think some of what I thought was mite damage is actually thrip damage.

 

[GreenLogician]

I've heard spinosad can be added to feeds for systemic action, is that true and do you guys have experience with it?

 

[SchmoeJoe]

I've heard spinosad can be added to feeds for systemic action, is that true and do you guys have experience with it?

I don't know that it's a systemic but I've used it alone and with azamax and it's been equally effective to be either way.

 

[Dr. Who]

Yeah, I had to go back over everything. The issue I have with it is that persists for a long time. Systemic was definitely the wrong term.

Pyrethrins themselves start breaking down almost immediately with exposure to UV light and moisture. The issue is the piperonyl butoxide. It's purpose is to make the pyrethrins persist longer to make them more effective. The main reason I say to stay away from it is that I've seen examples of rooms that had piperonyl butoxide being found in the walls long after use. If it lasts that long I'd rather just not mess with it. Not to mention that there are plenty of alternatives.

Sorry about the harsh first comment. I was driving 11hrs on Sat to watch my football team get it's ass handed to them by our second most hated opponent. Must say that the OSU fans around us were top notch host's and treated us with respect and grace. A personal thanks to "Buckeye Man" for his chapters hospitality in the tailgating party. Delta Chi's RESPECT from MSU! Kick'in chow bro....

The increase in effectiveness by adding PBO. Only increases the effective time actions of the Pyretrins - inside the insect....

You are quite correct that that compound is persistent in the environment. It should be noted that it is has as low a toxic relation to animals and humans as the Fed list's....HIGHLY to aquatic amphibians!

It's half life is 73 days. Take it from there, as to your personal use requirements.

 

[Carolina Dream'n]

One way to get rid of spider mites. Kill all plants in that area. Leave it empty for a few weeks and treat the ever living shit out of the area while it's empty. I'd rather loose genetics or miss a crop cycle than to deal with mites. The longer you wait the worse they get.

 

[Dr. Who]

I've heard spinosad can be added to feeds for systemic action, is that true and do you guys have experience with it?

Yes that is true. It is systemic and has an effective half life of 15 -18 days in aerobic soils. That increases to > 30 days in the plant. On plant surface use. The half life is from 2 -12 days on leaf surfaces. This time is dependent on the type of plant. It is degraded mainly by light exposure.

Personally, I never treat a plant to "prevent." If I don't "need" it. I don't use it. But that's simply my choice.