Creating a RDWC Setup - Could use some Pointers

[Joint Monster]

I will be doing a RDWC setup, as I can no longer carry 5gal containers of soil around. There are a few things I'm having trouble figuring out, and I could use some pointers on a water cooler, water pump and just general layout. I will include as much detail as I can, and try to keep it as organized as possible.

[The Basics] : 4x8' (7'tall) tent, 1600w Led (two 800W units), between 550-800CFM exhaust fan and passive intakes, going for two buckets - with two plants in each bucket for a total of 27*3= 81Gallons. Each bucket would get 4 air stones and one GH air pump.


[Container]:
> Still looking. Will go with the strongest container I can find. Probably two 27 Gallon containers, with two net pots in each container. And then one more 27 Gallon container for a reservoir. I was iffy if two girls will live comfortably in one 27 Gallon, but considering most people use a 5gal bucket I think it should be good?

[WaterCooler]:
> Before I go and spend $800 on a Water Cooler.... I don't know if I will necessarily be needing it, however if it can fit into the budget, I'm sure it will be good idea to include. It will be much better than trying to fit it into the plumbing afterwards.
> I was looking at a 1/10Hp and a 1/4Hp. The price difference is not that big between the two, and so I am leaning towards the bigger on (1/4Hp) which is rated for 80gallons, and perfect for my setup size.
> The two brands I'm comparing/ looking at are ActiveAqua and EcoPlus, and they seem fairly similar.
> The 1/4HP Chiller is rated for a Pump Size of 264 to 660GPH.


[Water Pump]:
> I am really not sure how to size this. Would a 600GPH pump be good for this system? (What is considered Overkill and what is considered too small?)


[Layout]:
Does this layout work, or would you put the pump and cooler somewhere else? Ideally, I have the pump and cooler outside of the tent.
> So I have the reservoir inside the tent, piping going out of the tent to the inline pump which connects to the water cooler, then piping from the water cooler back into the tent, and through the containers, and back into the reservoir. (like below
---> 27Gal. Reservoir ---> Inline 600GPH Water Pump ---> Input in Water Cooler ----> Output in Water Cooler ---> Piping into First 27Gal Container with two girls ---> Piping into Second 27Gal Container with two girls ---> Piping back into first 27Gal. Reservoir. ......repeat.

> If I put the inline water pump then the reservoir then the water cooler, will there be enough pressure to get water from the bottom of the reservoir up to the cooler, or will I need direct pressure from the pump for that type of upward current?

 

[PetFlora]

whatever you settle on IMHO only one plant per bucket. Why? disease, males etc may require chopping, but the roots will hammock. Cutting th stalk will lave dieing roots in the nutrient solution

Personally I recommend F & D, with plants in individual net pots: Air Pots would work well

hth

 

[ttystikk]

One plant per tub. Use waterfalls, lose the airstones.

What kind of LED lights? Do they actually pull 800W from the wall?

 

[Joint Monster]

I will only be running one strain (the same strain) in all two (or four) buckets.

This was the tutorial I was following / found most helpful.

For lighting I have 24x Vero29 Cobs (18 - 3000k and 6 - 5000k), at 1750mA. (I have to set it up, so I have not yet actually got to test wattage drawn.) According to my calculations it should be drawing just under 1600W total.

@PetFlora I guess the roots tangling will be the only issue, and maybe disease spreading, since I'm using fem seeds of the same strain.

What is F&D (Flood and Drain?). I don't really know much about it to be honest. Most of my research has been on dwc setups.

@ttystikk If I do one plant per tub, then I would need 4 27Gal. plus 1 27Gal. for reservoir, bringing me to 137Gallons .... would my 1/4HP be useless with this much water, as it's rated for 80Gallons? (I don't want to go up to the next size water cooler as price is almost double.) Or should I use smaller containers for each plant? maybe 15gallon instead?

I was hoping to waterfall the return from the pump to the reservoir like in the tutorial I posted above. But then I'm not sure where the water cooler would go in the setup. And if I make the "in" piping on each container higher than the "out" creating a waterfall effect, is one pump enough to push the current through an up, down, up, down, up, down type of pvc system? (like top of container 1 to bottom of container 1, piping goes from bottom container 1 to top of container 2, piping from top of container 2 to bottom of container 3...and so on..) OR should I just do one waterfall at the end going into the reservoir?...like the tutorial.

^If I do this waterfall method, then I do not need any air pumps+stones? (Would save me 300 on pumps and a lot of noise from the pumps) Would there be any benefit to NOT emitting them from the setup (aka, would using air pumps be more beneficial?) Right now I'm sort of leaning towards the stones, because of the research/ results I've seen with them.

 

[PetFlora]

One plant per tub. Use waterfalls, lose the airstones.

What kind of LED lights? Do they actually pull 800W from the wall?

Hey, how do you think having a manifold on the tray side of where the nutes flow out onto the F & D tray would work?

Do you think non-aerated nutes in the rez, except during each flood cycle, would be ok? Seems like it would need pumping ~ every hour Y/N? I run mine 4/30

Alas, my mosquito issue prevents me from trying it

 

[Joint Monster]

I thought I knew what I was doing, now I'm a bit confused. (well a simple rdwc with stones is fairly straight forward.)

PetFlora, you're saying to do something like this?...

Then would I require one water pump to push water to the top of each container, and a separate water pump to push water up through the water cooler? (Then where would the pump top feeding/creating the waterfall in each container be pulling water from... the reservoir as well?)
^I was reading some of your old threads on DO and a waterfall seems more favourable over stones. I'm also looking at oxystones over regular stones.

 

[rkymtnman]

I thought I knew what I was doing, now I'm a bit confused. (well a simple rdwc with stones is fairly straight forward.)

PetFlora, you're saying to do something like this?...

Then would I require one water pump to push water to the top of each container, and a separate water pump to push water up through the water cooler? (Then where would the pump top feeding/creating the waterfall in each container be pulling water from... the reservoir as well?)
^I was reading some of your old threads on DO and a waterfall seems more favourable over stones. I'm also looking at oxystones over regular stones.

i built one just as you described in post 1.
2 27 gal totes in grow room, 2 netpots in each, 1 27 gal outside grow room

submersible pump in control tote pumping out to a Y to each tote that sprayed from the top for teh waterfall

i isolated my chiller by running it thru a small res into a wort chiller (homebrewing device) so no nutes went thru chiller

worked well and easy to build

 

[PetFlora]

I thought I knew what I was doing, now I'm a bit confused. (well a simple rdwc with stones is fairly straight forward.)

PetFlora, you're saying to do something like this?...

Then would I require one water pump to push water to the top of each container, and a separate water pump to push water up through the water cooler? (Then where would the pump top feeding/creating the waterfall in each container be pulling water from... the reservoir as well?)
^I was reading some of your old threads on DO and a waterfall seems more favourable over stones. I'm also looking at oxystones over regular stones.

No. that's what I am doing, except mine is coming directly out of the bottom fed pump, pushing nutes out near the bottom of the rez, which also keeps nutes stirred up but if I could have open flood trays, I would have a manifold where the nutes come into the tray aerating the nutes prior to flooding the net pots

 

[Joint Monster]

@rkymtnman I was reading about isolating the chiller. I also read it was not necessary as they use good parts / titanium heat exchanger. Plus if you clean the rest of your system, the cleaning solution should run through the cooler and do the job to?

Similar to you except I'll probably do an inline pump. I'm on the fence with two or four buckets, but if math works out I'm leaning towards four.

And I'll probably still do one GH pump per bucket or per two buckets (if I do four), even with a waterfall at the reservoir.

Now I have to go maps out the specifics. I'll choose the gph water pump near the highest end of my water cooler recommendation. I'm debating if I should jump up to a 1/2HP, but I feel that may be overkill.

Flora... ahhh okay, I thought you were suggesting I do that. I guess if I go your route it's a good option. You clearly know your stuff, I've been reading your old posts all over the place ahah.

 

[rkymtnman]

I was reading about isolating the chiller. I also read it was not necessary as they use good parts / titanium heat exchanger. Plus if you clean the rest of your system, the cleaning solution should run through the cooler and do the job to?

not all chillers are equal. some use stainless,, some titanium.

another benefit is it doesn't have to work as hard and you can buy a smaller unit. my 1/10 did the job whereas you are looking at 1/4 or 1/2.

 

[firsttimeARE]

I use one pump to push water through the chiller and the supply goes to a manifold which top feeds the buckets.

Pump--->chiller---->manifold--->buckets

I went with a super 1/3 inline from tradewinds. Much pricier but they use top end compressors and a titanium heat exchanger. Dude stands by his product and offers a 2 year warranty standard with option to extend to 5 year or lifetime. It was $900 draws 7.8A and cools up to 270gal. Its good to oversize the chiller so when it does run its not running too long and heating up your room.

The line going to the buckets i have a valve thats normally open to allow flow into the buckets but before that i have a tee that has a valve at the end of it thats normally closed. This is my drain line. So ill close the valve going to the buckets to divert the flow to the tee and open up that valve at the end of the tee to drain. This line runs to the outside when I do res changes.

Im on week 5 of my res and i havent changed it yet

 

[ttystikk]

not all chillers are equal. some use stainless,, some titanium.

another benefit is it doesn't have to work as hard and you can buy a smaller unit. my 1/10 did the job whereas you are looking at 1/4 or 1/2.

This is why I don't recommend running nutrient solution through chillers.

 

[ttystikk]

Hey, how do you think having a manifold on the tray side of where the nutes flow out onto the F & D tray would work?

Do you think non-aerated nutes in the rez, except during each flood cycle, would be ok? Seems like it would need pumping ~ every hour Y/N? I run mine 4/30

Alas, my mosquito issue prevents me from trying it

Huh?

 

[ttystikk]

I will only be running one strain (the same strain) in all two (or four) buckets.

This was the tutorial I was following / found most helpful.

For lighting I have 24x Vero29 Cobs (18 - 3000k and 6 - 5000k), at 1750mA. (I have to set it up, so I have not yet actually got to test wattage drawn.) According to my calculations it should be drawing just under 1600W total.

@PetFlora I guess the roots tangling will be the only issue, and maybe disease spreading, since I'm using fem seeds of the same strain.

What is F&D (Flood and Drain?). I don't really know much about it to be honest. Most of my research has been on dwc setups.

@ttystikk If I do one plant per tub, then I would need 4 27Gal. plus 1 27Gal. for reservoir, bringing me to 137Gallons .... would my 1/4HP be useless with this much water, as it's rated for 80Gallons? (I don't want to go up to the next size water cooler as price is almost double.) Or should I use smaller containers for each plant? maybe 15gallon instead?

I was hoping to waterfall the return from the pump to the reservoir like in the tutorial I posted above. But then I'm not sure where the water cooler would go in the setup. And if I make the "in" piping on each container higher than the "out" creating a waterfall effect, is one pump enough to push the current through an up, down, up, down, up, down type of pvc system? (like top of container 1 to bottom of container 1, piping goes from bottom container 1 to top of container 2, piping from top of container 2 to bottom of container 3...and so on..) OR should I just do one waterfall at the end going into the reservoir?...like the tutorial.

^If I do this waterfall method, then I do not need any air pumps+stones? (Would save me 300 on pumps and a lot of noise from the pumps) Would there be any benefit to NOT emitting them from the setup (aka, would using air pumps be more beneficial?) Right now I'm sort of leaning towards the stones, because of the research/ results I've seen with them.

You don't fill the tubs more than halfway full, you know.

 

[Joint Monster]

This is why I don't recommend running nutrient solution through chillers.

So it's not a good idea to run nutes through chiller, even if it is titanium or stainless steel?

@rkymtnman I looked into that Wort Chiller,

https://northernbrewer.ca/products/silver-serpent-stainless-steel-wort-chiller

... for $100 to keep my $1000 cooler safe, I don't mind spending that. Just so I understand correctly..... you have a separate tub of clean water, you put your submersible pump in that and connect it the input on the water chiller. you then connect the output from the water chiller to the Wort Chiller and the other side of the wort chiller goes back to the original tub of clean water? (so cold water runs through the wort chiller, and the worth chiller sits in your main reservoir cooling it?)
...like this?

You don't fill the tubs more than halfway full, you know.

You don't fill the tub more than half way? Or you only fill the tub maximum 1-2" under your net pot? (or is this basically the same thing / what you're saying.)


@firsttimeARE That sounds like an American Brand.... but $900 and it's rated for 270gallons? That's pretty darn good!
I have to make sure to add junctions and valves at the correct places to!

 

[rkymtnman]

I looked into that Wort Chiller, ... for $100 to keep my $1000 cooler safe, I don't mind spending that. Just so I understand correctly..... you have a separate tub of clean water, you put your submersible pump in that and connect it the input on the water chiller. you then connect the output from the water chiller to the Wort Chiller and the other side of the wort chiller goes back to the original tub of clean water? (so cold water runs through the wort chiller, and the worth chiller sits in your main reservoir cooling it?)
...like this?

yep you got it exactly right. and here ya go, i'll save you 60 bucks.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/25-Stainless-Steel-Home-Brewing-Beer-Immersion-Wort-Chiller-Coil-3-8-OD/322758318046?hash=item4b25e517de:g:ndQAAOSwErFZwDEQ

you'll just have to play around and figure out what temp to set it at. i think mine was around 60F to keep my res at 65F ish

 

[firsttimeARE]

So it's not a good idea to run nutes through chiller, even if it is titanium or stainless steel?

@rkymtnman I looked into that Wort Chiller, ... for $100 to keep my $1000 cooler safe, I don't mind spending that. Just so I understand correctly..... you have a separate tub of clean water, you put your submersible pump in that and connect it the input on the water chiller. you then connect the output from the water chiller to the Wort Chiller and the other side of the wort chiller goes back to the original tub of clean water? (so cold water runs through the wort chiller, and the worth chiller sits in your main reservoir cooling it?)
...like this?




You don't fill the tub more than half way? Or you only fill the tub maximum 1-2" under your net pot? (or is this basically the same thing / what you're saying.)


@firsttimeARE That sounds like an American Brand.... but $900 and it's rated for 270gallons? That's pretty darn good!
I have to make sure to add junctions and valves at the correct places to!

It is,made in,America, California. They use Copeland compressor made in Missouri if I remember correctly.

Actually looking at their website it can handle up to 400gallons and is a 7.5A draw. These are aquarium chillers though and the delta t is a lot lower in aquariums than hydroponics so I was told to oversize given the delta t I was aiming for.

 

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

I'm not a fan of the waterfall myself as I prefer to have a slow flow and let the air stones stir the water. Then restrict the return to get the water level where I want it. This way the negative effects from dwc are slowed down, but it also makes the take around 2 hours to normalize a change. Instead of 2-5 mins in a waterfall system. I can show the two methods I use when I get the other side of my room setup.

 

[rkymtnman]

Then restrict the return to get the water level where I want it

i think it's easier just to let the system reach equilibrium and the level in your control tote is the level in the whole system. to each his own.

 

[Joint Monster]

Thanks @rkymtnman ! That's perfect! I really appreciate it!

I think this is what I'll be doing... 4 27gal. (with net pots they will be more like <20gallons.) I'll use a 30 or maybe 60gallon garbage bin (since they're really tall, but will only be filled about <half way, since the height of the other containers.). Then run it like the tutorial I posted in the first post. Have a separate loop for my cooler, and have one GH air pump per two buckets. (two stones per bucket).
^Although still not set in stone.... still working on details. (if I go two slightly larger containers, then I can use one output from each of the GH pumps and put two stones in the Reservoir as well. And then 3 stones in each of the containers)

For the cooler, with the wort chiller in the res.. I guess I will need a separate pump for that. But it makes the whole setup more easier to configure. (Since I'm running the cooler in it's own loop, can I just buy close to the minimum recommended gph pump for the cooler?)

Also I wanted to ask you @rkymtnman , do you find the inline pump in your cooler setup works against the cooler? Or are you completely fine with it submerged vs using an inline for that as well?