Functional illiteracy in America

choomer

Well-Known Member
The government is the people's tool to mitigate inefficiencies and faults of the economic system for the purpose of the welfare of the people and the security and stability of the nation as a whole..
So that's the reason for yearly trillion dollar deficits!
Are you sure that government is mitigating inefficiencies and faults of the economic system instead of exemplifying them like this? ;)

...and to swing back on topic, what is the smallest percentage?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
So that's the reason for yearly trillion dollar deficits!
Are you sure that government is mitigating inefficiencies and faults of the economic system instead of exemplifying them like this? ;)

...and to swing back on topic, what is the smallest percentage?
That's a great graphic. It illustrates why cutting taxes is such a bad strategy.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
So that's the reason for yearly trillion dollar deficits!
Are you sure that government is mitigating inefficiencies and faults of the economic system instead of exemplifying them like this? ;)

...and to swing back on topic, what is the smallest percentage?
Fiscal year 2017 Defense spending - ~$830,000,000,000
Fiscal year 2017 Social Security - ~$1,000,000,000,000

Just making sure we are point with facts.
 

choomer

Well-Known Member
Fiscal year 2017 Defense spending - ~$830,000,000,000
Fiscal year 2017 Social Security - ~$1,000,000,000,000

Just making sure we are point with facts.
To be fair, the infographic is from a 2014 story on TheBlaze (I didn't know until I wanted to see when it was made), but 83% of what is spent on social security being spent on "defense" seems about right.

Is that "point with the facts"?
 

PCXV

Well-Known Member
So that's the reason for yearly trillion dollar deficits!
Are you sure that government is mitigating inefficiencies and faults of the economic system instead of exemplifying them like this? ;)

...and to swing back on topic, what is the smallest percentage?
How accurate are those numbers? Just wondering cause I will be inferring from them: That infographic proves my point of what government is forced to do to keep the ship sailing so to speak. It speaks nothing to the deficit; that is a tax revenue problem brought to us by neoliberal right wingers (trickle down being sold as an adrenaline shot for economic expansion; it's not).
 

see4

Well-Known Member
To be fair, the infographic is from a 2014 story on TheBlaze (I didn't know until I wanted to see when it was made), but 83% of what is spent on social security being spent on "defense" seems about right.

Is that "point with the facts"?
It does.

And as tinydick stated, it illustrates why cutting taxes is such a moronic thing to do, right now.

And it also illustrates how utterly hypocritical the Republican party is... in the same year they want to vote in tax cuts and think government spending is out of control, they vote for a 700,000,000,000 military budget, which almost every year goes over by 10-30%... so you are looking at defense spending in 2018 to be around 900,000,000,000. talk about a welfare program...
 
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choomer

Well-Known Member
How accurate are those numbers? Just wondering cause I will be inferring from them: That infographic proves my point of what government is forced to do to keep the ship sailing so to speak.
I have no idea how accurate the numbers are but people don't like it when I use math to prove them incorrect so I've shifted to pictures.

~50% subsidizes peoples health care
20% subsidizes peoples income
18% subsidizes the MIC
6% subsidizes the banks
6% actually goes towards goods and services
1% goes to education

It speaks nothing to the deficit; that is a tax revenue problem brought to us by neoliberal right wingers (trickle down being sold as an adrenaline shot for economic expansion; it's not).
The deficit IS tax dollars that haven't even been made by the taxed yet. Where else does gov't get money?
As to trickle down being the reason, it sure has helped but is not solely responsible.


Seems it REALLY started to take off once we abandoned a monetary structure tied to something physical that can't be counterfeited with a printing press..
 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
It does.

And as tinydick stated, it illustrates why cutting taxes is such a moronic thing to do, right now.

And it also illustrates how utterly hypocritical the Republican party is... in the same year they want to vote in tax cuts and think government spending is out of control, they vote for a 700,000,000,000 military budget, which almost every year goes over by 10-30%... so you are looking at defense spending in 2018 to be around 900,000,000,000. talk about a welfare program...
This current tax bill doesn't in fact contain a tax cut. In fact the whole argument it how to limit the deficit increase in order to pass the bill with a simple majority. It is a bill for a tax deferral, not a tax cut.

@choomer only looks at the spending side of the equation. Yes, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid cost a lot. I mean, duh. These measures prevent seniors from going into poverty and provide services for people who can't afford them. While endlessly touting how much things costs is easy, finding alternatives to those programs is not so easy.

In fact, medicare is a wonderful program that everybody should have by right as a citizen.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
I have no idea how accurate the numbers are but people don't like it when I use math to prove them incorrect so I've shifted to pictures.

~50% subsidizes peoples health care
20% subsidizes peoples income
18% subsidizes the MIC
6% subsidizes the banks
6% actually goes towards goods and services
1% goes to education


The deficit IS tax dollars that haven't even been made by the taxed yet. Where else does gov't get money?
As to trickle down being the reason, it sure has helped but is not solely responsible.


Seems it REALLY started to take off once we abandoned a monetary structure tied to something physical that can't be counterfeited with a printing press..
That pictograph shows that our debt is almost completely directly related to trickle down, voodoo economics, or better title Reaganomics. See where that pretty red line starts to go up and up in 1980ish.

That's not to say Clinton and Obama helped the situation.. they certainly did not. That not being because of progressive politics, that being because they needed to fall right of center in order to get votes, because the voting base was conned into thinking low taxes for corporations is a good thing and it will all trickle down to the working man. It never has, and it never will.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
This current tax bill doesn't in fact contain a tax cut. In fact the whole argument it how to limit the deficit increase in order to pass the bill with a simple majority. It is a bill for a tax deferral, not a tax cut.

@choomer only looks at the spending side of the equation. Yes, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid cost a lot. I mean, duh. These measures prevent seniors from going into poverty and provide services for people who can't afford them. While endlessly touting how much things costs is easy, finding alternatives to those programs is not so easy.

In fact, medicare is a wonderful program that everybody should have by right as a citizen.
A corporate tax rate of 21% without removing loopholes is a HUGE tax cut.
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
I am me. He is him. You are you. I am not you. You are not him. He is not me. Clear enough?


Yes, I exaggerate to make a point. The point is that this is not the time to take a neutral stance regarding what's going on in today's society. You can only take a neutral stance because you, in your whiteness are safe from the racist right wing politicians and their scapegoating for now.

^^See how clumsy and wordy that is?

You are neutral about Nazis and that sucks.

^^To the point and not wrong.

See now I realize I shouldn’t have used the word neutral. You are still holding your misconception about me.

I just am not taking sides as both political sides are completely fucked and only money for them is even an actual driving factor. And keeping everyone else ignorant through political misdirection. Which both sides here and everywhere just seem to mindlessly propagate.

I have very strong feelings about all of this. And the poverty around me doesn’t choose color. We are all on even ground.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
See now I realize I shouldn’t have used the word neutral. You are still holding your misconception about me.

I just am not taking sides as both political sides are completely fucked and only money for them is even an actual driving factor. And keeping everyone else ignorant through political misdirection. Which both sides here and everywhere just seem to mindlessly propagate.

I have very strong feelings about all of this. And the poverty around me doesn’t choose color. We are all on even ground.
By choosing to not oppose Nazis you are choosing a side.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
See now I realize I shouldn’t have used the word neutral. You are still holding your misconception about me.

I just am not taking sides as both political sides are completely fucked and only money for them is even an actual driving factor. And keeping everyone else ignorant through political misdirection. Which both sides here and everywhere just seem to mindlessly propagate.

I have very strong feelings about all of this. And the poverty around me doesn’t choose color. We are all on even ground.
You can be between two parties and still have an opinion. I do it very well.

If you think Americans are illiterate, you can debate your political views on the subject, not just a certain view.

I don't think anyone here cares to know what someone says about what they think a certain political party might think about a subject... they want to hear your thoughts on the subject.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
A corporate tax rate of 21% without removing loopholes is a HUGE tax cut.
I'm not arguing that taxes to a corporation will be lower.

As you point out,
That pictograph shows that our debt is almost completely directly related to trickle down, voodoo economics, or better title Reaganomics. See where that pretty red line starts to go up and up in 1980ish.

That's not to say Clinton and Obama helped the situation.. they certainly did not. That not being because of progressive politics, that being because they needed to fall right of center in order to get votes, because the voting base was conned into thinking low taxes for corporations is a good thing and it will all trickle down to the working man. It never has, and it never will.
Maybe I'm not saying it properly. Spending wasn't cut, tax revenues from corporations were cut and the deficit/national debt will go up. Unless we are talking about defaulting or deliberately raising inflation, taxes that would have been collected next year were deferred in the form of loans and somebody will pay them later with interest.
 

choomer

Well-Known Member
See now I realize I shouldn’t have used the word neutral. You are still holding your misconception about me.
I just am not taking sides as both political sides are completely fucked and only money for them is even an actual driving factor. And keeping everyone else ignorant through political misdirection. Which both sides here and everywhere just seem to mindlessly propagate.
I have very strong feelings about all of this. And the poverty around me doesn’t choose color. We are all on even ground.
Egg-zachery!

I see it being about you (citizen), me (citizen), and THEM.
They see it being about you (corp.), me (gov't), and THEM (chattel).
 

PCXV

Well-Known Member
I have no idea how accurate the numbers are but people don't like it when I use math to prove them incorrect so I've shifted to pictures.

~50% subsidizes peoples health care
20% subsidizes peoples income
18% subsidizes the MIC
6% subsidizes the banks
6% actually goes towards goods and services
1% goes to education


The deficit IS tax dollars that haven't even been made by the taxed yet. Where else does gov't get money?
As to trickle down being the reason, it sure has helped but is not solely responsible.


Seems it REALLY started to take off once we abandoned a monetary structure tied to something physical that can't be counterfeited with a printing press..
The deficit the difference between revenue and spending. We have the money that is able to be taxed now, but they are selling the idea that if we just don't tax the money now that somehow it will be easier to tax the money later. Who actually believes that?

The interest on the debt will only become worse. The people with money will more reluctant to pay back debt that was purposefully exploded so the rich at the time could hoard more.

It's not the monetary system or spending or tax policy that are inherently bad, it is the abuse and exploitation of those systems that got us where we are.
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Egg-zachery!

I see it being about you (citizen), me (citizen), and THEM.
They see it being about you (corp.), me (gov't), and THEM (chattel).

You are adding some info that I didn’t say too.

Unfortunately. We the people are the politicians, the citizens and the corporations.

They are all just other people. And all out for their own ideas and self preservation.

All of us.

This forum is just more stupid human bickering. It isn’t educating even when well meant and the most outspoken here are not positively adding anything to the problems. Not even helpful words.

And so it goes......
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
What changed is that I stopped swallowing the party line that you and Buck have been swilling for years.

I'd have been happy to have a civil discussion about it but most here seem unable.

It seems that many people are threatened by someone with differing opinions and lash out. It's really too bad...
I asked you earlier. What party line did you stop swallowing that puts you at odds with Buck and me? Specifically, what policies or positions do you and I disagree on?
 
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