Functional illiteracy in America

[choomer]

The Federal Reserve is a government entity. See https://www.federalreserve.gov/

https://www.federalreserve.gov/
Why are there both a US Treasury and Federal Reserve then? <see below>

A Federal Reserve Note is different from that of a securities note. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Note

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Note

Federal Reserve Notes, also United States banknotes or U.S. banknotes, are the banknotes currently used in the United States of America. Denominated in United States dollars, Federal Reserve Notes are printed by the United States Bureau of Engraving and Printing on paper made by Crane & Co. of Dalton, Massachusetts. Federal Reserve Notes are the only type of U.S. banknote currently produced.[1] Federal Reserve Notes are authorized by Section 16 of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913[2] and are issued to the Federal Reserve Banks at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System.[3] The notes are then put into circulation by the Federal Reserve Banks,[4] at which point they become liabilities of the Federal Reserve Banks[5] and obligations of the United States.[3]
These assets are generally Treasury securities which have been purchased by the Federal Reserve through its Federal Open Market Committee in a process called debt monetizing. This monetized debt can increase the money supply, either with the issuance of new Federal Reserve Notes or with the creation of debt money (deposits). This increase in the monetary base leads to a larger increase in the money supply through fractional-reserve banking as deposits are lent and re-deposited where they form the basis of further loans.​

Assets (sometimes referred to as securities), liabilities, obligations, debt money, and fractional reserve banking.......
Seem pretty plain they describe it as debt.

The other stuff is moot if we can't agree on the premise.

True enough.
It might help if you read the Federal Reserve act and the wikipedia page you link.

 

[see4]

Why are there both a US Treasury and Federal Reserve then? <see below>

Federal Reserve Notes, also United States banknotes or U.S. banknotes, are the banknotes currently used in the United States of America. Denominated in United States dollars, Federal Reserve Notes are printed by the United States Bureau of Engraving and Printing on paper made by Crane & Co. of Dalton, Massachusetts. Federal Reserve Notes are the only type of U.S. banknote currently produced.[1] Federal Reserve Notes are authorized by Section 16 of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913[2] and are issued to the Federal Reserve Banks at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System.[3] The notes are then put into circulation by the Federal Reserve Banks,[4] at which point they become liabilities of the Federal Reserve Banks[5] and obligations of the United States.[3]
These assets are generally Treasury securities which have been purchased by the Federal Reserve through its Federal Open Market Committee in a process called debt monetizing. This monetized debt can increase the money supply, either with the issuance of new Federal Reserve Notes or with the creation of debt money (deposits). This increase in the monetary base leads to a larger increase in the money supply through fractional-reserve banking as deposits are lent and re-deposited where they form the basis of further loans.​

Assets (sometimes referred to as securities), liabilities, obligations, debt money, and fractional reserve banking.......
Seem pretty plain they describe it as debt.

True enough.
It might help if you read the Federal Reserve act and the wikipedia page you link.

A Federal Reserver Note is legal tender that pays a debt. You should have a look at a Federal Reserve Note someday.... perhaps you could open your wallet and have a look-see?
"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private"

How does one pay a debt with a debt?

hashtag sotheresthat

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

You are so confused.

The only thing that confuses me is why you would want to keep up this kind of posting?

I wasn’t even in a conversation with you. I don’t even know what your point is? Or what you try so hard to get me to agree with. You just keep stating things about me that are not true, I do not feel or even agree with for no apparent reason.

Why?

Do you feel you need to teach me a lesson or something?

 

[dagwood45431]

Do you feel you need to teach me a lesson or something?

Don't be silly. You're unteachable.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Don't be silly. You're unteachable.

Maybe you have nothing worthwhile to teach.

You do seem to be stuck in 7th grade emotionally.

And again I don’t even remember disagreeing with you about anything for you to still be doing this.

I guess it’s important to you somehow.

 

[dagwood45431]

I guess it’s important to you somehow.

It really isn't.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

It really isn't.

You are still answering. It is.

 

[ttystikk]

I'd also like to point out that it was me that took out the loans but all of them were paid directly to an institution that in return gave me an education worth $0. The lender, backed by the government, approved this institution to recieve loans knowing that the institution was giving me something that would not allow me to repay those loans. Did the lender know they were loaning money that would be spent on something worthless? If they did, they share some blame with the institution for misleading 18 year olds that lack reasoning ability into a lifetime of inescapable debt.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/12/corporatizatizing-administrative-university.html

Between this and the inability to find work that pays enough to keep body and soul intact plus repay student loans, it's clear that eliminating the ability of students to discharge their debts via bankruptcy amounts to a form of indentured servitude.

The circular logic employed by those who would argue otherwise only serves to illustrate that point.

The best way to get ahead in America is to build a good credit rating, take on all the debt one possibly can and then declare bankruptcy. MBA holders do it all the time in business and it's considered 'best practice'.

Our President has made a career out if it.

It seems that the key is to transfer non dischargeable debt like student loans into dischargeable debt like business operations.

I'm not being even a little sarcastic.

The crash is coming, folks. Cash out your Bitcoin and buy gold.

 

[ttystikk]

A Federal Reserver Note is legal tender that pays a debt. You should have a look at a Federal Reserve Note someday.... perhaps you could open your wallet and have a look-see?
"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private"

How does one pay a debt with a debt?

hashtag sotheresthat

Jesusfuck you're stupid.

'Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'. -Mark Twain

 

[ttystikk]

The only thing that confuses me is why you would want to keep up this kind of posting?

I wasn’t even in a conversation with you. I don’t even know what your point is? Or what you try so hard to get me to agree with. You just keep stating things about me that are not true, I do not feel or even agree with for no apparent reason.

Why?

Do you feel you need to teach me a lesson or something?

None of these people have anything better to do with their time.

They're to be pitied, and then ignored.

 

[ttystikk]

Why are there both a US Treasury and Federal Reserve then? <see below>

Federal Reserve Notes, also United States banknotes or U.S. banknotes, are the banknotes currently used in the United States of America. Denominated in United States dollars, Federal Reserve Notes are printed by the United States Bureau of Engraving and Printing on paper made by Crane & Co. of Dalton, Massachusetts. Federal Reserve Notes are the only type of U.S. banknote currently produced.[1] Federal Reserve Notes are authorized by Section 16 of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913[2] and are issued to the Federal Reserve Banks at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System.[3] The notes are then put into circulation by the Federal Reserve Banks,[4] at which point they become liabilities of the Federal Reserve Banks[5] and obligations of the United States.[3]
These assets are generally Treasury securities which have been purchased by the Federal Reserve through its Federal Open Market Committee in a process called debt monetizing. This monetized debt can increase the money supply, either with the issuance of new Federal Reserve Notes or with the creation of debt money (deposits). This increase in the monetary base leads to a larger increase in the money supply through fractional-reserve banking as deposits are lent and re-deposited where they form the basis of further loans.​

Assets (sometimes referred to as securities), liabilities, obligations, debt money, and fractional reserve banking.......
Seem pretty plain they describe it as debt.

True enough.
It might help if you read the Federal Reserve act and the wikipedia page you link.

Your sincere attempts to educate are failing in the face of an aggressive ignorance.

You can't teach the unwilling.

Best to just engage with the open minded instead.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

None of these people have anything better to do with their time.

They're to be pitied, and then ignored.

As far as I know from here I have no reason to pity any of these people. I would prefer a better experience than projection and name calling though.

I don’t like to be ignored and as such I don’t like to ignore anyone else.

I just call em’ as I see em’

 

[choomer]

A Federal Reserver Note is legal tender that pays a debt. You should have a look at a Federal Reserve Note someday.... perhaps you could open your wallet and have a look-see?
"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private"
How does one pay a debt with a debt?
hashtag sotheresthat

How interesting, that's what I said to PCXV back on pg. 20 that started this ball rolling. Did you forget?

That money has to be borrowed into existence via the Fed ("This note <debt> is legal tender for all debts public and private.") and then paid back using taxes.
They use one debt that is self inflating to pay another debt that is governmental in creation to extract all worth (time) from private individuals.

This is where you came in:

That's a new one... "self inflating debt".
I've heard of the economic plan to use inflation to cancel debt, but I've never heard of self inflating debt. Maybe you can explain this concept.
And I've certainly never heard of using one debt to pay another that "is governmental in creation"...

It seems from the statement above you even read that, but perhaps conveniently forgot how I brought the definition of note into the "conversation".
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it think.

 

[choomer]

Your sincere attempts to educate are failing in the face of an aggressive ignorance.
You can't teach the unwilling.
Best to just engage with the open minded instead.

But there are all those others out there that are uneducated (like me at one time) and this might be the 1st time they are given reason to question the motivations of Benanke, Geithner, Yellen, etc. and the private bank they steward.
It's not about the odd BCC member that refuses that education.

 

[see4]

How interesting, that's what I said to PCXV back on pg. 20 that started this ball rolling. Did you forget?

This is where you came in:

It seems from the statement above you even read that, but perhaps conveniently forgot how I brought the definition of note into the "conversation".
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it think.

No. You are conflating a Federal Reserve Note as debt. It is not.

I don't really care where or when you brought something up, if you're wrong, you're wrong.

Let me repeat, a Federal Reserve Note is not debt.

A securities note can be debt.

A securities note and a Federal Reserve Note are two different instruments.

But for the sake of you sleeping better at night, you win. Everything the government makes is a debt, and everyone pays everyone with debt. Even tinfoil hats are paid with debt that someone traded someone else with for more debt. The government owns you.. with debt. Because debt.

Satisfied? Because I'm really bored of this.

 

[see4]

Jesusfuck you're stupid.

'Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'. -Mark Twain

And yet you're the homophobe and I'm your intellectual superior.

Try much much harder next time. You're out of your league here.

Explain to me again why you think its a good idea that students should be allowed to bankruptcy away a debt they agreed to pay.

Or better yet, explain how a debt can be paid with a debt.

Or or, no, even better idea, explain to me how a Federal Reserve Note is a debt.

 

[choomer]

No. You are conflating a Federal Reserve Note as debt. It is not.

You conflated theft w/ a loan. I just pointed out that each dollar in your pocket is debt.

I don't really care where or when you brought something up, if you're wrong, you're wrong.
Let me repeat, a Federal Reserve Note is not debt.
A securities note can be debt.
A securities note and a Federal Reserve Note are two different instruments.

I'm just bringing up the fact that you read my post about the definition on the bill and then attempt to school me pages later that I had no idea it exists.
You also refuse to admit that the Fed is a private company with shareholders even when I use your "schooling" links to prove that to be. Your flat refusal to understand that approaches zealotry.

But for the sake of you sleeping better at night, you win. Everything the government makes is a debt, and everyone pays everyone with debt. Even tinfoil hats are paid with debt that someone traded someone else with for more debt. The government owns you.. with debt. Because debt.

Dress up the truth in whatever self saving facade you prefer as you have no basis to refute what I've said and you are now proving that.

Satisfied? Because I'm really bored of this.

That's too bad.
You've been quite the perfect demonstration of the effects of propaganda and misinformation about a very powerful private institution.

 

[Fogdog]

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/12/corporatizatizing-administrative-university.html

Between this and the inability to find work that pays enough to keep body and soul intact plus repay student loans, it's clear that eliminating the ability of students to discharge their debts via bankruptcy amounts to a form of indentured servitude.

The circular logic employed by those who would argue otherwise only serves to illustrate that point.

The best way to get ahead in America is to build a good credit rating, take on all the debt one possibly can and then declare bankruptcy. MBA holders do it all the time in business and it's considered 'best practice'.

Our President has made a career out if it.

It seems that the key is to transfer non dischargeable debt like student loans into dischargeable debt like business operations.

I'm not being even a little sarcastic.

The crash is coming, folks. Cash out your Bitcoin and buy gold.

With followers like tty, no wonder Bernie lost.

I can agree with the premise that a university degree from some colleges is overpriced. The rest of this post is histrionic bloviation.

 

[see4]

You conflated theft w/ a loan. I just pointed out that each dollar in your pocket is debt.

I'm just bringing up the fact that you read my post about the definition on the bill and then attempt to school me pages later that I had no idea it exists.
You also refuse to admit that the Fed is a private company with shareholders even when I use your "schooling" links to prove that to be. Your flat refusal to understand that approaches zealotry.

Dress up the truth in whatever self saving facade you prefer as you have no basis to refute what I've said and you are now proving that.

That's too bad.
You've been quite the perfect demonstration of the effects of propaganda and misinformation about a very powerful private institution.

Never, not one time have I ever conflated theft with a loan. Maybe theft with bankruptcy, but certainly not a loan. Nice try though.

No, a dollar in my pocket is not debt. You are simply wrong. In fact quite the opposite, a dollar in my pocket that doesn't need to be paid to satisfy a debt, is equity.

I did read your post, and that was totally my mistake, I should have never done that, I will remember in the future to not do that.

The Federal Reserve is a government entity. The Federal Reserve Banks exist by an act of Congress, the Banks themselves are treated as a corporation, the board of governors, the ones who run the Banks, is a government agency. The Federal Reserve, thusly the Federal Reserve Banks are in existence to serve the public. -- You are playing word games.

I've repeatedly shown you, point by point where you have been wrong. You choose to think you are right, and that is totally fine by me. I've got no skin in your game, nor you in mine.

 

[dagwood45431]

You are still answering. It is.

Then it must be every bit as important to you since you're matching me post for post. Logic.