Making Seeds and a Pretty Fat Auto Bud.

[sunny747]

This is Auto Onyx from AWB. It was a cool plant. Very short and fat.

So I harvested the main and was wondering if I leave the remaining bud attached and just let the plant hang out for a few months will it likely grow nanners that I can collect and pollinate another onyx with to collect seed?

 

[chemphlegm]

quite possible if conditions are right. not months, but weeks if its going to show.
be sure to have a fem ready to mate when that finger appears.
This is the way I make hundreds of purposeful female seeds.
So far 100% female since 2009
look for this

 

[Kingrow1]

Yer maybe and maybe it wont, some plants never hermie and some all too easy, fucking mother nature....!

 

[chemphlegm]

I dont think this is a hermaphrodite. I saw no balls throughout its cycle and
only left this bud to mature for this late finger stamen. the difference between balls hanging on a hermaphrodite
vs this finger is a good discussion, probably worn out somewhere here.
anyways none of my offspring show any issue with sex confusion using rodelization to pollinate.

Soma says
Creating feminized cannabis seeds is an art. Just like art, there are a few different methods of application. I have written about some of my different methods of making seeds in previous HIGH TIMES articles. I have used gibberellic acid, pH stress, light stress, and fertilizer stress to force my female plants to make seeds. All of these methods are harsh on the plants, and some, like the gibberellic acid, are not organic. In my search for cleaner, more earth-friendly ways of working with the cannabis plant, I have found a new way to make feminized seeds. Feminized seeds occur as a result of stress, rather than genetics. All cannabis plants can and will make male flowers under stress. Certain strains like a higher pH, some a lower one. Some like a lot of food, some like much less. There is quite a lot of variety in marijuana genetics, and you can’t treat every plant the same way.



It takes many harvests before you really get to know a particular strain. Just like getting to know human friends, it takes time. I have grown the same strains for close to a decade, and am truly getting to know every nuance the different plants exhibit. I can recognize them from a distance. I must say that I get a lot of help from my friends, both in making seeds and in learning new and better ways of working with this sacred plant.





I named this new method "Rodelization," after a friend who helped me realize and make use of this way of creating female seeds. After growing crop after crop of the same plants in the same conditions, I noticed that if I flowered the plants 10-14 days longer than usual, they would develop male "bananas." A male banana is a very slight male flower on a female marijuana plant that is formed because of stress. Usually they do not let out any pollen early enough to make seeds, but they sometimes do. They are a built-in safety factor so that in case of severe conditions, the plant can make sure the species is furthered.



To me, a male banana is quite a beautiful thing. It has the potential of making all female seeds. Many growers out there have male-banana phobia. They see one and have heart palpitations, they want to cut down the entire crop, or at the very least take tweezers and pluck the little yellow emergency devices out. I call them "emergency devices" because they emerge at times of stress.



In the Rodelization method, the male banana is very valuable. After growing your female plants 10-14 days longer than usual, hang them up to dry, then carefully take them off the drying lines and inspect for bananas. Each and every banana should be removed, and placed in a small bag labeled very accurately. These sealed bags can be placed in the fridge for one or two months and still remain potent.



For the next phase, you need to have a separate crop that’s already 2 1/2 weeks into flowering. Take your sealed bags of pollen out of the fridge, and proceed to impregnate your new crop of females. To do this, you must first match the female plant and the pollen from the same strain in the previous crop. Shut all the fans in the growroom down. Then take a very fine paintbrush, dip it in the bag of pollen, and paint it on the female flower. Do this to each different strain you have growing together. I have done it with up to 10 different kinds in the same room with great success.



I use the lower flowers to make seeds, leaving the top colas seedless for smoking. This method takes time (two crops), but is completely organic, and lets you have great-quality smoke at the same time you make your female seeds. If you’re one of those growers who’s never grown seeds for fear of not having something good to smoke, you will love this method.



You can also use this pollen to make new female crosses by cross-pollinating. The older females with the male bananas can be brought into the room with the younger, unpollinated females after they are three weeks into flowering. Turn all of the circulation fans on high, and the little bits of pollen will proceed to make it around the room. Do this for several days. Six to seven weeks later, you will have ripe 100% feminized seeds; not nearly as many as a male plant would make, but enough to start over somewhere else with the same genetics

 

[Kingrow1]

the difference between balls hanging on a hermaphrodite
vs this finger is a good discussion, probably worn out somewhere here.

No i think there is a reason why it produces those fingers and not the ball, i cant remember the answer but i think it happenes to some other plant species, was it those oranges that produce a small twin orange or somthing. Fuck tricky for me to have to find that answer again....

 

[Norby Grown]

Just had a monster plushberry get bananas thruought and had to chop her down. SHe was made from a plushberry that had about 10 or so bananas from going late. Made 3 seeds and didn't have this problem with a sister seed. Think it was from PH going too low but it was still devastating chopping down 10+oz only 2 weeks before harvest and throwing it out.

I don't use fem seeds except for outdoors. Too many seed lines are from hermies that threw a little pollen. As evolution tells us that traits are passed down, the more it is used to breed the more you will get mixed up sexes in the resultant offspring. May have been great when it first came out but using fem seeds for breeding lines is weakening the lines so that they hermie with much less stress than the strains from 30 years ago.

Since coming to Mi and starting to buy seeds from all the top breeders I can't believe how prevalent hermies are. Even in cuts. The GG#4 hermies and ruined 1/4 of my garden because I stupidly put it in front of a floor fan. The stardust Sherbet I got just hermied 4 weeks into flower from ph issues. I had a Walker Kush seed hermie right out of the gate into flower and it was 50/50 but only showed pistils in veg. I've had probably 25% hermie from store bought seeds since I've started here. Some cuts though like HP cannatonic I had to spray with G acid and colloidal silver, give off light schedules and overfeed to get enough pollen to get 30 seeds. People should really test their lines and drop any lines that hermie as much as they do for as much as they charge.

 

[chemphlegm]

the balls take longer to open and release pollen than the banana, and dont grow out of buds. If you open a ball there are little bananas unopened. I dont have any issues with allowing a couple more weeks past harvest to get these and make fem seeds with the pollen.

 

[Norby Grown]

There are numerous types of hermaphroditism. I personally like the ones like the GG#4 which throws a few full flowers towards the bottom of the plant. If she finishes well outdoors you can get a few selfed seed in the bottom buds for next season and the rest of the plants is clean to smoke. I'd only use it for outdoors though.

 

[chemphlegm]

Just had a monster plushberry get bananas thruought and had to chop her down. SHe was made from a plushberry that had about 10 or so bananas from going late. Made 3 seeds and didn't have this problem with a sister seed. Think it was from PH going too low but it was still devastating chopping down 10+oz only 2 weeks before harvest and throwing it out.

I don't use fem seeds except for outdoors. Too many seed lines are from hermies that threw a little pollen. As evolution tells us that traits are passed down, the more it is used to breed the more you will get mixed up sexes in the resultant offspring. May have been great when it first came out but using fem seeds for breeding lines is weakening the lines so that they hermie with much less stress than the strains from 30 years ago.

Since coming to Mi and starting to buy seeds from all the top breeders I can't believe how prevalent hermies are. Even in cuts. The GG#4 hermies and ruined 1/4 of my garden because I stupidly put it in front of a floor fan. The stardust Sherbet I got just hermied 4 weeks into flower from ph issues. I had a Walker Kush seed hermie right out of the gate into flower and it was 50/50 but only showed pistils in veg. I've had probably 25% hermie from store bought seeds since I've started here. Some cuts though like HP cannatonic I had to spray with G acid and colloidal silver, give off light schedules and overfeed to get enough pollen to get 30 seeds. People should really test their lines and drop any lines that hermie as much as they do for as much as they charge.

when its important know that one treatment with OptiFoliar will stop this expression. treat a cut, make clones of that if you're concerned, kill treated plant. Only fan leaves are treated with a paint brush, used in fruit and veggie production for decades, seedless stuff, etcc. tells the plant to make more ethylene is all.

 

[Kingrow1]

the balls take longer to open and release pollen than the banana, and dont grow out of buds. If you open a ball there are little bananas unopened. I dont have any issues with allowing a couple more weeks past harvest to get these and make fem seeds with the pollen.

I mean that there is a biological process that causes just one nana to form instead of a sac of them, something with mitosis meiosis or monoecious, fucked if i can remember, but i do remember coming across one.

Pollen is pollen at the end of the day.

 

[Norby Grown]

when its important know that one treatment with OptiFoliar will stop this expression. treat a cut, make clones of that if you're concerned, kill treated plant. Only fan leaves are treated with a paint brush, used in fruit and veggie production for decades, seedless stuff, etcc. tells the plant to make more ethylene is all.

That stuff has to be re applied or it gets used up in the plant from what I read.

 

[Norby Grown]

I mean that there is a biological process that causes just one nana to form instead of a sac of them, something with mitosis meiosis or monoecious, fucked if i can remember, but i do remember coming across one.

Pollen is pollen at the end of the day.

Pollen isn't all the same. there are many different forms of hermaphroditism. You'd never want to use a full on hermaphrodite that isn't induced by stress to pollinate plants if you want to use the seeds. The ones that are hardest to get to make male flowers are the best to use for pollinating when making feminized seeds.

 

[Kingrow1]

Pollen isn't all the same. there are many different forms of hermaphroditism. You'd never want to use a full on hermaphrodite that isn't induced by stress to pollinate plants if you want to use the seeds. The ones that are hardest to get to make male flowers are the best to use for pollinating when making feminized seeds.

Maybe read somthing i wrote before you bring me into a conversation on hermies, as far as i know the pollen from all over a plant is the same (per say)

 

[Norby Grown]

Maybe read somthing i wrote before you bring me into a conversation on hermies, as far as i know the pollen from all over a plant is the same (per say)

I did. I even quoted it. Hermaphroditism is the term of ANY female plant throwing male flowers if the plant is diecious. Bananas, full male flowers, if they occur on a female pot plant it's hermaphroditism in one of it's many forms.

 

[Kingrow1]

I did. I even quoted it. Hermaphroditism is the term of ANY female plant throwing male flowers if the plant is diecious. Bananas, full male flowers, if they occur on a female pot plant it's hermaphroditism in one of it's many forms.

Says you, i say its a trait picked up well before domestication and wild populations hence it can occur in any plant and is in all genetics worldwide. In the wild this is an awesome trait to have for those wet and wild years, mathematically the shorter the distance pollen has to travel the greater the chance of actual pollination and survival of the species. Pollen is seriously hampered by water, rain, dew, thunderstorms, flooding. Suffice to say that we could almost call this trait hardwired and not something that breeding can change or turn on or off.

One cocky member once wrote 'Show me a hermie proof strain', followed by the assumption that if there was such a thing that guaranteed no chance of any hermies it would then go on to be the biggest best seller grossing millions in its first week alone for all the noobie growers that complain of this such thing.

I kind or think the plant dosent make any distinguishable difference between pollen from the top or the bottom, merely one of hundreds of hormones and proteins and their tiny differences give certain patterns and features but i think one action covers them all not by position in any way. Beat that pollen brush if you want, not that the results will make you right, its been tried before and what was seen was that all plants can hermie, mainly we see this from stress although mother nature and genetic variation being so random you must also take into account that some strains may be far more sensitive or less defensive to stress and as such this trait might be triggered.

As to where and why this happens, ive read that it is from an independent protein located somewhere on a chromosome that is not in any way linked to the sexual genetics of the plant and the species as a whole as well as monoecious and dioecious plants. Interestingly that mono dio. stuff is more relevant to hemp but again that is a slightly different variety genetically than what we grow so we cannot make the same cross observations for cannabis from hemp sexual genetics, bummer.

Off all the plant kingdom it has been noted that cannabis has a very complex sexual genetic system, as yet it is far from fully understood, most basic theories have failed simply from observation in the wild and controlled breeding, we can not say with confidence what the fuck is going on inside and hence were all a little apprehensive of the yet to be conducted future science that might crack this mystery, a mystery that has been noted as weird in the scientific community although they have plenty of them.

Many older breeders noted this, mainly they tried to find plants or groups that avoided showing hermie traits, unfortunately a few strains were that good they couldnt do f'all about the nanas and had to breed it just because it was too good too miss out on the smoke, that and maybe one day some one might make it better with a cross or fluke pheno, who the fuck knows.

I know i saw it more when i started or fucked up, i bred the seeds from these for a while till they dried up and i didnt seem to get it much whatsoever after time growing, some people give me hermie seeds but i still dont get what they had and have no seed to give back from my grow. Over time i notice the odd seed or nana, mainly hiding in a bud or on lower growth behind a stem so i dont see till im opening her up after drying. Smoke report says theres a definite taste to them, too many and im like no but a few and it aint nothing.

Most of this infos out there, it would cross into genetics a whole lot more if we knew what it was, theres occurrences like this with a few other plant species but again thats where my intellegence drops off, maybe some have dont the relevant degrees and jobs to decipher higher level plant genetics and make a little more sense into it. Mainly i gained these assumptions because there wasnt a plant or strain on here that didnt herme at some point in the last few decades, again just no such thing as herme free genetics or we could all take subsequent clones and never see a hermie in the history of RiU again.

Fuck, were still guessing even wtf weed makes cannabinoids in the first place, insect repellent, to get wildlife to eat or maybe avoid it, protection from the sun, uv, etc etc etc wtf knows, still guessing

 

[Norby Grown]

Read up on cannabis hermaphrodites. Some of your info is true and some just shows you haven't done your homework. There are different types of hermies which give 50% the same type of hermies in the resultant offspring. One type is throwing full male flowers at the bottom of the plant. One type is throwing bananas late stage but all plants don't do this. Yes some throw male flowers with stress but some would die from stress before throwing male flowers. The more you use those types of breeding(feminized in any form) the more prevalent the unstable offspring become.
Most of your hermies these days from the big companies is because they won't cull a line/breeding with something that has a good name but may tend to not throw the most stable offspring. If people bred for stability of the sexes instead of selling the most seeds off a name brand there wouldn't be as many problems with hermies as there are.

 

[Norby Grown]

Like this last run I did. walker, gg#4 and plushberry that I made from late male flowers and stardust sherbet all hermied but the pre 98 bubba, tahoe og and deathstar didn't hermie. Those are the plants I'd use for a breeding program and the other lines wouldve never seen their name on a pack even though they may not have hermied if they weren't stressed.
You may not be able to completely clear hermies from a line indefinitely but you can sure use practices that don't promote them if you make that much per seed pack and result in way fewer hermies. Most "breeders" wouldn't stress test a line cause that'd be too much work. Some of them do nothing but fem seeds. Greenthumb brags about how many "breeders" use his genetics in their lines. Believe me there is a huge difference if you stress test your lines, anyone who tells you different is making excuses for their shotty work.

 

[Kingrow1]

Read up on cannabis hermaphrodites. Some of your info is true and some just shows you haven't done your homework. There are different types of hermies which give 50% the same type of hermies in the resultant offspring. One type is throwing full male flowers at the bottom of the plant. One type is throwing bananas late stage but all plants don't do this. Yes some throw male flowers with stress but some would die from stress before throwing male flowers. The more you use those types of breeding(feminized in any form) the more prevalent the unstable offspring become.
Most of your hermies these days from the big companies is because they won't cull a line/breeding with something that has a good name but may tend to not throw the most stable offspring. If people bred for stability of the sexes instead of selling the most seeds off a name brand there wouldn't be as many problems with hermies as there are.

The info you talk on in too basic to be a reality, then you propose we have different types of hermies which fracture off into unstable and stable strains based on what the grower did and at what particular point in the grow the hermie happened and the at which point on the plant it formed on.

This is what happens when you take that stuff that is all too often written, you fall down a rabbits hole. Neither you or i are any wiser as to what this actually is, i merely present a much easier and cited way of looking at the problem from start to finish. Any pollen just produces fem seeds no matter what part or time or stress or whatever triggered it, there are no breedable observations past that.

 

[Norby Grown]

First off, I have been breeding cannabis for over 30 years and have seen patterns myself. Secondly, there has been work done and simple mathematics can tell you a lot about the genetics if you grow test groups and can count.
Any hermied plant of any of the types of hermaphroditism used in breeding can tend the future offspring to be more susceptible to hermaphroditism.
Again, do some reading or some breeding and find out for yourself. I'm a lot wiser for doing the work over the last 30 years. Again anyone telling you "it's just something that happens" is trying to sell you some seeds or heard it from someone who was.

 

[Cold$moke]

@chemphlegm
A little off topic but i saved some carefully collected male pollen from a very stinky slee skunk male.

And ive had it in the fridge with rice for a few months now do you think its still viable?
Im still going to try here in a few weeks when my ladys are ready but figured I'd ask