Matching Drivers and COBs

Heil Tweetler

Heil Tweetler

Well-Known Member
Folks,

I use an older optic vero. It runs 4, v29 4k @ 2.1mA. Each cob has active cooling and its own lpf 90 42 driver. One of the cobs is out and Id like to replace it with: BXRC-17E10K0-C-74-SE
Vero29 SE Solderless, 1750K C bin, Typ Vf 69.4

Meanwell LPC-100-1400 is about the same size as the lpf 90 42. So it fits into the optic vero case, could someone confirm that it is an appropriate driver to power the cob at ~100W?

Thanks for any guidance.
 
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CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
I was just explaining to someone how to calculate cob voltage and current with chips in parallel on a constant voltage meanwell so i figured id copy it here for reference

cob= Luminus CXM22 gen 3
driver= MeanWell HLG-600H-54B

lets revisit out voltage/current curve for the chip

upload_2017-12-7_0-50-55.png

just like the chip above can only operate on the curve provided, the same is true of the driver. it has its own graph on its datasheet

in the graphs below 100% of Vo is 54V, 100% of Io is 11.2A

Case A: 12 cobs = 11.2A/12= 933mA > look up voltage of chips at 933mA, it is 50.75V, that is the voltage all cobs and drivers will be operating at

that would be 'constant current' mode like this (full current, reduced voltage)
upload_2017-12-7_0-50-55.png

Case B: 10 cobs = 1.12A > look up voltage at 1.12A, it is 51.75V
that would be 'constant current' mode like this (full current, reduced voltage from 54V but slightly higher than the case above)

upload_2017-12-7_0-50-55.png

Case C: 5 cobs = 2.24A each >>TRICK QUESTION!!!! in this case 2.24A to the cobs would require 57V which is above 54V so, you guessed it, driver operates at 54V ("constant voltage area") and reduces current to what the cobs can take, something less than Io. in this case looking up what current corresponds to 54V in the chip graph we see 1600mA x 4 cobs = 6.4A

upload_2017-12-7_0-50-55.png

no matter if you hook up 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 chips to the driver, in no case can the driver deliver more than 54V to a cob so it will never go over ~1600MA per cob. if you design your cooling solution to handle 85W (really a 120mm passive would do this.. it wouldnt be ideal but the chip wouldnt burn up) you will never have an issue with "thermal runaway"

54B (or 48A) is a good match for the luminus cxm22 since it limits the voltage to an appropriate range within the voltage/current curve of the chip. wanna blow a chip up for fun? throw a single 36V chip on the same driver and watch sparks fly as it will give it all 11A and blow up instantly

you could however hook (5) 36V chips up and let them take 2.24A each and they would run fine. however if one or more chips in that array get disconnected or burn out, the driver will make short work of the rest. so you can see why that's not recommended (in either case a 36B,36A or even 42A or B would be a better match as in a given driver series the current is higher for lower voltage models. "A" models have the additional feature of adjusting voltage down so going back to the 50V luminus chip say you built a rig with a 48A or 54A you can dial the max voltage down to whatever is a safe match for your chip/heatsink combo
 
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Heil Tweetler

Heil Tweetler

Well-Known Member
Rahz said:
It will work, bout 95 watts.
Click to expand...
thanks.
If i wanted to update the whole rig for efficiency are there any cobs that would be a useful upgrade and still utilize the old lpf 90 42 drivers and v29 mount template and active cooling? FYI Ive got the first version optic vero v29 360. It's made with 4 x v29 gen 6(?) 4k, 4 lpf 90 42 drivers, active cooling, no dimming


If such a cob is available I'd use 3 of them along with a single vero 29, 1750 @ 1.1mA, in the same lunch box case.
Thanks for any thoughts
 
Heil Tweetler

Heil Tweetler

Well-Known Member
Rahz said:
The latest Vero29 D version would be an easy upgrade with those drivers.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the recommendations. I've got my upgrade items ready to go. Looking back at supra's old v29 tables(re v 29 ver 1.2 vs v7)upgrading now provides a substantial bump in efficiency like 25% ish? So even with the photon penalty of flipping a 4k, to a 1750, I'll still come out much brighter with this upgrade. Currrently this rig is packing 4x 4k, v1.2 @ 2.1 mA.upgrade cobs.jpg

I will start this grow off with my media dialed in using new soil test results and compare to same practice with older differert k cobs. Using similar genetics and media ss a bit of a basis for anecdotal observations.

I think this is V 1.2LWdZjST.png
 
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Rahz

Rahz

Well-Known Member
Efficiency increase over Supra's charts is about 19% for D version at 3500K and 4000K. At 3000K the product sim is indicating a 22% increase over the Supra charts.

Why this is, I'm not sure. Taking a closer look the product sim is indicating no efficiency difference between 3000K and 3500K. In fact, the lumen output is slightly higher with 3000K.

I can't wrap my head around that being correct unless they've got some magic sauce covering the 3000K chips. Unfortunately I can't examine the formulas in the Bridgelux spreadsheet, but same wattage, same LPW, two different lumen outputs...
 
brazzik25

brazzik25

Well-Known Member
Привет, вы можете посоветовать средний драйвер для 5 матриц CLU048-1212C4-353H6M3-F1 3500k, я не могу его удержать, думаю, если бы я правильно понял, то на одной матрице даты на дату 34v было 1080 мА, максимум 36, 8 - 2760 мА, то я умножаю 5x34v = 170v, поэтому мне нужно искать драйвер с выходом 170v - 1080mA, не так ли? В доме у меня ток 220 вольт.
 
verticalgrow

verticalgrow

Well-Known Member
Rahz said:
Efficiency increase over Supra's charts is about 19% for D version at 3500K and 4000K. At 3000K the product sim is indicating a 22% increase over the Supra charts.

Why this is, I'm not sure. Taking a closer look the product sim is indicating no efficiency difference between 3000K and 3500K. In fact, the lumen output is slightly higher with 3000K.

I can't wrap my head around that being correct unless they've got some magic sauce covering the 3000K chips. Unfortunately I can't examine the formulas in the Bridgelux spreadsheet, but same wattage, same LPW, two different lumen outputs...
Click to expand...
hi Rahz & @Randomblame ,
can a hlg 480h 1400 constantly run 420 volts of COBs?
Link says Max open circuit voltage is 420v but im not sure wat that means & thx.

http://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/search.aspx?prod=HLG-480H-C
 
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newguy123

newguy123

Well-Known Member
I need someone to explain what the rated output voltage means on the hlg.

I want to power 3 vero29C SE at 700ma to get 150 watt
I would use the hlg 120h 700c. What about the rated output voltage? The max is 54 and the vero29C SE has a voltage of 68V
 
Rahz

Rahz

Well-Known Member
verticalgrow said:
hi Rahz & @Randomblame ,
can a hlg 480h 1400 constantly run 420 volts of COBs?
Link says Max open circuit voltage is 420v but im not sure wat that means & thx.

http://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/search.aspx?prod=HLG-480H-C
Click to expand...
Open circuit voltage is the potential voltage when current isn't flowing. I can't give you a technical answer but the output voltage is probably lower due to resistance either in the working circuit or in the driver when current is flowing. So basically no, you will be limited by the voltage the driver can deliver under load which is 171-343 in your example.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Yepp, it's like @Rahz said, forward voltage depends on the driver current.
The higher the current within in driver model lower the voltage.
The HLG-480H-C1400 in your example can handle a circuit with min. 171v and max 343v, it would not work with a 420v circuit. But when you choose a HLG-600H-C1400 instead then the maximum voltage is 428v @1,4A and this would fits almost perfect.

Screenshot_20180110-222032.png
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Mouser.com has HLG-600H-36A listed and 3 in stock. If you want to use 36v COB's you could drive them in parallel.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEAN-WELL/HLG-600H-36A/?qs=/ha2pyFaduhb02XRVrmT0jSl0MqIizsnBif%2bVhWLsy/gyqjn45wKLnRq6Zipkboa

This is the 48v CV version and they are also in stock if you use 50v COB's:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEAN-WELL/HLG-600H-48A/?qs=/ha2pyFaduhb02XRVrmT0oqhJ9foA4AGiAbIZz4gIwxZ0bNTRi5HKJ8oySWhsY22

Unfortunately mouser dont have CC versions listed but you can try to get HLG-600H-C's from Jerry/kingbrite, cobkits, Timber/Dan or HLG, because all these guys are very helpful.
But you should consider to use two HLG-320H-C1400B instead. They are much easier to get, they are cheaper and it can be useful to switch off half of the COB's(eg. for a veg mode).
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
These drivers are pretty high tech these days. We had a couple of cobs desolder themselves when active heatsink PSU didn't come on. The remaining parallel COBS just kept on going as if nothing was wrong.
 
mahiluana

mahiluana

Well-Known Member
verticalgrow said:
can a hlg 480h 1400 constantly run 420 volts of COBs?
Click to expand...
OCV 420VDC is the voltage that you can measure with a multi-meter without load.

if you wire too many chips in series - your leds start blinking (or stay dark)
and your driver can`t build up enough voltage and close/open the circuit.
Specially starting your lamp in low ambient temp. can be a problem as chips have a higher Vf.

You could then dimm the drivers current (if possible) to bring down Vf of your chips,
but i guess you want to drive your mean well @ full load to get the max. out ?

with other type of mean well drivers - yes you can - go close to open circuit voltage
i.e. elg240h-c1400
rated output dc 86-171v
rated power 239,4w
max. open circuit voltage 180V

- i drivem @ 179V without problems (total 250w =104,6% of rated power)
with 419vdc you push your driver to 587w = 122,2 % " " :confused:

i never used hlg480h
even if 420v is possible - it might be unhealthy for longlife
even if mean well.
 
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