Investors are delusional when it comes to Canadian marijuana companies

gb123

Well-Known Member
...more stupid greedy and blind! (:


As the July deadline for the provinces to legalize marijuana approaches, the stock prices of Canadian publicly-traded weed producers have been on a tear. On Monday alone shares in Canopy Growth Corp., soared nearly 20 per cent. The surge in market value comes as firms try to position themselves with sufficient product to meet anticipated demand. But as these companies, some valued in the billions of dollars despite generating no profits, continue to attract starry-eyed investors, it’s worth examining what kind of opportunities will exist for these firms when provinces regulate retail pot sales. It is not difficult to predict profit margins will fall under regulation and that current market cap valuations are predicated on unrealistic expectations.

While there are some variations across provinces in their distribution plans for legalized marijuana, the largest two provinces, Ontario and Quebec, intend to have provincial run outlets modelled on their government-controlled alcohol sales. Indeed, the alcohol model gives us an important clue as to how the industry is likely to shake out—and why marijuana producers face tough times ahead. Keep in mind that there will still be online purchases and the proportional divide between physical store and e-commerce is unclear. Ontario with only a planned 150 outlets might give us an early indication as to online traffic. But let us consider the possible ramifications from only the government outlets.

READ: How big is Canada’s marijuana market, really?

The Ontario Liquor Control Board (LCBO) and Société des alcools du Québec (SAQ) effectively have a monopoly on the sales of most alcohol products in their respective provinces (with the exception of beer and some wine). The LCBO is one of the world’s largest buyers and demands much from its suppliers in terms of large quantities and price discounts. Minor producers, even in Ontario, who are unable to meet the demands of the LCBO must sell their products elsewhere.

Giant provincial alcohol buyers with market power drive tough bargains in terms of price and quantity which dissipates suppliers’ profits. Of course, having a virtual monopoly on the retail side has meant that these pricing discounts are rarely passed onto its customers. I see the same tactics for recreational marijuana. There is the false belief that the licensed producers (LPs) of marijuana will get the same price from the provinces they have enjoyed in the retail-based medical market business. However, aggressive bulk buying by large provincial authorities will whittle the producer price down markedly.

Provincial buyers are going to want to deal with licensed producers that can supply large amount of product at low prices. At present the average price of medical marijuana is roughly $10 per gram. Some publicly traded companies have boasted that their all-in costs are in the range of 70 cents to $1.75 per gram which translates into profit margins of more than 80 per cent. However, we can expect provincial agencies will severely cut into these margins. The Ontario wine industry provides us with some idea of profit margins that LPs might reasonably expect. In a recent study on Ontario Wine and Grape Industry (2015), for large scale operations the profit margins are just under 15 per cent and in fact many smaller vineyards were posting losses.

READ: Ottawa’s dangerous hustle to legalize weed

Meanwhile at implementation this will likely mean only the largest producers will be entering into contract with the provincial authorities. The notion of boutique suppliers of cannabis will have to wait, just like craft beer producers waited in alcohol sales. Establishing reliable supply lines will dominate initially any gourmet pot considerations.

Will provinces favour producers in their own backyards? Of course they will. Just as Ontario has favoured its own wine industry and shelves mostly their products for the domestic lines in their stores, so will it be true for provincial distributors. For instance, if you are a cannabis producer hoping to sell in Canada’s biggest markets, you will likely need a physical grow-op in Ontario or Quebec. This means regional producers will face additional barriers to growth. At present only the government of New Brunswick has announced a commitment to Organigram, a Moncton-based producer, to buy five million grams a year. The company, which has seen its shares soar 31 per cent in value so far this year, estimates that deal will translate into a retail value of $40 million to $60 million. (At present, Organigram’s market value stands at $630 million.) Other provinces will soon follow suit I believe and strike distribution arrangements for local provincial growers.

As in many stock market interactions, the industry tells a rosy story of growth and opportunity. But I would suggest a careful recall of the dot com bubble offers a somber warning. Canopy Growth Corp. is currently valued at just over $7.5 billion yet loses about 12 cents a share. At the same time, Canadian Tire Corp. has a valuation of $11.5 billion and earns $10 a share—and pays a dividend yield of 2.14 per cent. What company offers a better long-term investment?
 

greg nr

Well-Known Member
could be some funds are moving money from us investments to canada. might not be anything significant.

There is fear in the us markets right now. So money will go elsewhere. There are likely funds focused on cannabis, so the money needs to stay in cannabis stocks and the us is risky.

I guess the theory is investing in an over inflated and questionable market is safer than an illegal one, from a fund managers perspective.

As investors decide to divest from cannabis stocks, the prices will deflate just as quickly.
 

PKHydro

Well-Known Member
I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I took advantage of all this money flowing into cannabis stocks. As much as I hate supporting LP scum by buying their stock, it would be stupid not to take advantage of some easy gains!

I'm almost to the point I can sell my current house, buy a big property up north on a lake and build my dream grow!

Screenshot_20180109-233326.jpg
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
That is AWESOME...
its not worth anything until you .............sell it.(:



Its not like I havent seen this happen before,,.

a company that was once worth 180/share and split five to one...
went right back up to 80/share
is now a company who's shares are worth 10:hump:
I feel bad for the ones who bought in at 80/share thinking it was going back to 100's/share,,,:cool:
 
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WHATFG

Well-Known Member
I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I took advantage of all this money flowing into cannabis stocks. As much as I hate supporting LP scum by buying their stock, it would be stupid not to take advantage of some easy gains!

I'm almost to the point I can sell my current house, buy a big property up north on a lake and build my dream grow!

View attachment 4070899
And do you want more?
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
Not that I have money to invest anyway, but LP's wouldn't have been my first choice. I'm all for someone doing well in their investments, but I consider it financing the enemy. Your investments helped fund the fight to try to take away my right to grow and I won't feel bad if people lose their shirts. In the next 4 months provinces will be signing contracts with LP's to supply their stores and when the investor learns the price per gram they will get, they will trample each other to get out. Their per gram sales price will go from $10+ to about $3/g. That devalues their product by 60%. There were a lot of savvy investors who lost big in the dot com bust and in 2008 - I'm sure their strategy was also disciplined, and they had entry and exit points decided. I hope this turns out the same.
If I were putting my money up, I'd be looking for cannabis related products and businesses that are up and coming to invest in. That's where the innovation is going to happen that creates the next market boom.
 

GreenHighlander

Well-Known Member
Not that I have money to invest anyway, but LP's wouldn't have been my first choice. I'm all for someone doing well in their investments, but I consider it financing the enemy. Your investments helped fund the fight to try to take away my right to grow and I won't feel bad if people lose their shirts. In the next 4 months provinces will be signing contracts with LP's to supply their stores and when the investor learns the price per gram they will get, they will trample each other to get out. Their per gram sales price will go from $10+ to about $3/g. That devalues their product by 60%. There were a lot of savvy investors who lost big in the dot com bust and in 2008 - I'm sure their strategy was also disciplined, and they had entry and exit points decided. I hope this turns out the same.
If I were putting my money up, I'd be looking for cannabis related products and businesses that are up and coming to invest in. That's where the innovation is going to happen that creates the next market boom.
I couldn't agree more with the financing the enemy part.
But I disagree that if the government makes it $3-4 a gram that it devalues the product. I think that would infact increase share value because of the increase in demand. Bottoming out prices is the only way they are going to take a chunk of the already VERY well established market. The demand is well established and the supply is well established. If the government wants to max profits they must under cut like a motha lol
I doubt they will which is why I think it is a bad investment.

I also agree other cannabis related industries are not being paid nearly enough attention. First and for most cannabis tourism? second hemp.
Cheers :)
PS fuck LPs
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
But I disagree that if the government makes it $3-4 a gram that it devalues the product. I think that would infact increase share value because of the increase in demand.
That's assuming there is an increase in demand. There will be some, but will it be enough to keep investors excited? They now have to sell almost 3x as much to garner the same profit, and investors aren't in it to break even.. I'm not a money guy so maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, but I don't see shares holding value once that happens. I do my gambling at the casino - I know my luck so at least I don't have the expectation of getting rich. lol
 

PKHydro

Well-Known Member
Not that I have money to invest anyway, but LP's wouldn't have been my first choice. I'm all for someone doing well in their investments, but I consider it financing the enemy. Your investments helped fund the fight to try to take away my right to grow and I won't feel bad if people lose their shirts. In the next 4 months provinces will be signing contracts with LP's to supply their stores and when the investor learns the price per gram they will get, they will trample each other to get out. Their per gram sales price will go from $10+ to about $3/g. That devalues their product by 60%. There were a lot of savvy investors who lost big in the dot com bust and in 2008 - I'm sure their strategy was also disciplined, and they had entry and exit points decided. I hope this turns out the same.
If I were putting my money up, I'd be looking for cannabis related products and businesses that are up and coming to invest in. That's where the innovation is going to happen that creates the next market boom.
I know what you mean. Honestly I struggled with it, being an MMAR patient myself. I can't stand the LP's and their bullshit.
People ARE going to get burned...and soon I think. The last month has been insane, and a correction is coming. Like I said, Ive locked in my profits and sold the majority of my cannabis holdings, I hold only 1 pot stock currently and its a U.S. company. The rest of my investments are in lithium and biotech.
 

GreenHighlander

Well-Known Member
That's assuming there is an increase in demand. There will be some, but will it be enough to keep investors excited? They now have to sell almost 3x as much to garner the same profit, and investors aren't in it to break even.. I'm not a money guy so maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, but I don't see shares holding value once that happens. I do my gambling at the casino - I know my luck so at least I don't have the expectation of getting rich. lol
The end amount I can't comment on. I just truly believe it is their only shot to get the customers. I fear they will attempt some new prohibition crackdown instead.
I also am no money guy. We are looking at it right. It is the "businessmen" who surprise surprise are wrong about that devils lettuce.
Cheers :)
 

greg nr

Well-Known Member
Cannabis is good, people are crazy.

The stock market is a gambling parlor. Nothing more.

When you "buy" a share of common stock, you really don't own anything physical. No land, no bricks, no flowers; nothing.

All you have is that "share", which you paid something for and you hope to be able to sell for more. But most companies are so over valued, even if someone bought back every share for the fair value of the company divided by the shares, you would get much less than you paid.

Since no dividends get paid, you are betting on growth of the company and people bidding up the price of the shares.

Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't. As soon as investors get spooked, people try to sell. Sure, funds can stabilize the price, but eventually they need to sell as well.

The cannabis market is way over bought. It is a bubble waiting to pop. But the fund managers make money either way. It's the small investors that pay the price.

If you have ever piloted a boat, you've heard that there are 2 types of captains: those that have run aground, and those that will. Same goes for investors and losing money in the market.
 

WHATFG

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I know what you mean, more money? Who doesn't?

I've taken profits the whole way up, I'm not about to ride this wave untill it crashes. It's about being disciplined, knowing your exit and entry points.
...I have a problem with greed I guess....I appreciate your honesty about this....at least you weren't an ass about it like some others here....
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
Yeah, then we force them by contract to buy all their supplies from the gofundme co-op shop.
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
keep sayin it and sayin it..and now others are sayin it too :lol:

One thing you often hear about the cannabis market is that people will adopt cannabis en masse, around 17% if you believe the surveys,” said Damitha Pathmalal, Director of Research for GT Research. “Then they go on to assume just because someone tries it, they'll become a lifelong user... That's not really the case.”

Just like any other marijuana market, it’s the heavy users that drive the bulk of demand in Canada. Sure, federal legalization will bring new consumers to the market -- people who are willing to try the product after the government legalizes it. But how many of those individuals will go on to consume marijuana every day? Not very many."
 
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