Will government shutdown make slaves of military personnel?

londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Okay I'll drop the smart ass approach and go back to the know it all approach.

I would say if you had a smidge of extrapolative logic you would have ALREADY stumbled on the answer. Since the constitution forbids involuntary servitude and also REQUIRES a vote whether to maintain funding for the army, it isn't a standing army. I think my original post said something about a "standing army". Now about that Air Force thing, you do know that air planes are a free market invention right?

I've caught waaay more fish than you today. They've really been biting lately.
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Rob Roy said:
Did you know the constitution forbids a standing army ?
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it doesn't
U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8

The Congress shall have the power

1. To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States:

2. To borrow money on the credit of the United States:

3. To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states,and with the Indian tribes:

4. To establish an uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States:

5. To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures:

6. To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States:

7. To establish post-offices and post-roads:

8. To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries:

9. To constitute tribunals inferior to the supreme court:

10. To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offences against the law of nations:

11. To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water:

12. To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years:

13. To provide and maintain a navy:

14. To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces:

15. To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions:

16. To provide for organizing, arming and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress:

17. To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock-yards, and other needful buildings: And,

18. To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
it doesn't
U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8

The Congress shall have the power

1. To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States:

2. To borrow money on the credit of the United States:

3. To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states,and with the Indian tribes:

4. To establish an uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States:

5. To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures:

6. To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States:

7. To establish post-offices and post-roads:

8. To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries:

9. To constitute tribunals inferior to the supreme court:

10. To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offences against the law of nations:

11. To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water:

12. To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years:

13. To provide and maintain a navy:

14. To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces:

15. To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions:

16. To provide for organizing, arming and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress:

17. To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock-yards, and other needful buildings: And,

18. To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
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Subsection 16 is the part they could use to regulate firearms.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Actually the tax scam could be part of the problem. You do know that most people are not permitted to keep all that they earn right?

So, anyway I'm curious of your opinion regarding a government shutdown. If it includes no payment to military, does it create a kind of involuntary servitude ? Should the soldiers disobey "unconstitutional orders" to continue to be held in involuntary servitude?
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unless they permit themselves..M/10:wink:

the past is gone; the future, yet to be..think of the present; one day at a time.
 
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Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
it doesn't
U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8

The Congress shall have the power

1. To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States:

2. To borrow money on the credit of the United States:

3. To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states,and with the Indian tribes:

4. To establish an uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States:

5. To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures:

6. To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States:

7. To establish post-offices and post-roads:

8. To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries:

9. To constitute tribunals inferior to the supreme court:

10. To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offences against the law of nations:

11. To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water:

12. To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years:

13. To provide and maintain a navy:

14. To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces:

15. To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions:

16. To provide for organizing, arming and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress:

17. To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock-yards, and other needful buildings: And,

18. To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
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Looks more like a leaning tower of pizza army.

 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
The Constitution authorises the Congress to levy taxes...
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My point wasn't where do the people that call themselves leaders believe they get "authority" from, it was that they are wrong, in a moral, logical and perhaps legal sense, or at least they would be if they bothered to follow the guidelines of their own legal system which would not see the Constitution as a binding contract of any kind. Thank you for responding though.

Spooners essay, questions the legitimacy of the constitution. His logic is flawless, btw, so naturally I agree with him. He was an abolitionist too. If you haven't already, you should consider reading his words.

 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
@Rob Roy you do realize Somali is a country ran on anarchy. Do you wish for the world to be Somalian ?
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Oh well, then. Did you realize that washing machines use water and that people have drowned in water? Did you buy a laundromat because you want everyone to drown? Horrible, horrible indeed!
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Oh well, then. Did you realize that washing machines use water and that people have drowned in water? Did you buy a laundromat because you want everyone to drown? Horrible, horrible indeed!
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how about you move to Somali. Let them know you are there to live in a country with no government and want to be left alone. I promise to write back when you write me. Keep me posted on how you are doing.
 
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