• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

How will Canada’s new drugged-driving rules actually work?

gb123

Well-Known Member
Globe write lol

I've read that there will be new drugged-driving rules for when pot is legalized this year. But I don't really understand them. So do we have rules now or is it legal to be driving after consuming marijuana? – Katie, Calgary

The proposed rules will make it easier for police to weed out drivers who've been toking.

But until they pass, if police believe you're impaired by any drug, you could still face criminal charges.


"So, right now, police can have you take the standard field sobriety test and if you fail they can demand a drug recognition evaluation," said Andrew Murie, chief executive of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) Canada. "If you fail that, they charge you with impaired driving and they make a sample demand. It's not tested for level, but cannabis must be in that urine sample for the charge to go forward."

To test you in the first place, police have to suspect that you're impaired – say, because you're driving erratically or they pull you over and smell marijuana. "It's a very low threshold," Murie said.


But right now, there's no set limit on the amount of cannabis that you can have in your blood, the same way there currently is for alcohol.

And that's part of the reason why there are still relatively few drugged-driving charges, even though drugs now show up more often than alcohol in blood tests of drivers killed in crashes. In 2014, just 2.6 per cent of all impaired-driving charges (1,355 out of 51,637) were for drugs.

"Courts don't like these tests because there's not a level of measurement," Murie said.

"And most police forces don't have people trained to do these tests. So there are very few charges and even fewer convictions."

Level-headed?


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Bill C-46, the proposed changes to impaired-driving laws, sets out specific limits for the amount of THC, the main psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, that you can legally have in your blood while driving.

What you'll be charged with depends on how many nanograms of THC you have per millilitre of blood within two hours of driving.

"They're saying, 'You shouldn't be driving with any cannabis in your body, but there's a difference between low and high levels – so we won't treat low levels in a criminal fashion but there will still be punishment,'" Murie said.

The bill, which is set to be debated when the Senate resumes this month ("The Conservative senators are playing politics with it," Murie said), sets out three offences:

Two nanograms

If you have two nanograms, but less than five, you would face a summary conviction and up to a $1,000 fine.


"With two nanograms, it's not a criminal offence, its a summary offence," Murie said. "You're not fingerprinted, so it would not show up on CPIC [Canadian Police Information Centre], it wouldn't show up on an employment check or a passport application."

In an analysis statement with the draft legislation, Ottawa said that this low offence is "is not directly linked to impairment, but is, rather, based on a precautionary or a crime prevention approach."

Five or more nanograms

If you have five nanograms or more, it gets more serious, just like if you're caught with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) over .08. It's a hybrid offence and, depending on the seriousness, you could face a fine and jail time. The maximum penalty for a criminal offence would be 10 years. This level of THC is "expected to cause some driving impairment," the statement said.

Combined THC and alcohol

Alcohol and marijuana are a dangerous mix for driving – worse than either alone at the same levels, Murie said. That's why it's also a hybrid offence to have a BAC of .05 combined with a THC level over 2.5 nanograms.

There's debate whether all drivers, especially regular users, will actually be impaired at these levels. And drivers who are heavy users may always be above those levels.

But Murie thinks the law – which sets clear legal per se levels that mean you're legally intoxicated at those levels – is fair.

"I think it's the right legislation," he said. "They'll eventually add per se levels for other drugs as they go along."

The provinces still have to pass their own rules for driving while high. Quebechas proposed a zero-tolerance policy where any driver with a trace of cannabis could be suspended for 90 days. Other provinces, including Ontario and Alberta, have proposed zero-tolerance for new drivers only.

Roadside saliva tests

So how will this actually work on the road?

First, like now, police would still have to reasonably suspect that you're impaired. Then, they could either ask you to take an oral fluid test – where they take a scrape of saliva off your tongue and put it into a machine – or the standard field sobriety test.

"Police will have both options," Murie said. "It's totally up to police. So certain officers will be trained in the standard field sobriety test and they might feel comfortable with that – and others will use the oral fluid test."

The oral fluid test doesn't show a level – it's just a pass or a fail. But the test only reads fail if you are above 5 nanograms – the criminal level, Murie said.

If you failed either test, then police could demand a blood test, which would show your actual blood concentration of THC. That's the test that determines the final charges.

The blood test has to be taken within two hours after you're first pulled over. And how quickly you take the test within that two-hour window is important because the longer you wait, the lower your THC will be.

"You're over the criminal level of 5 with the roadside oral fluid test," Murie said. "But when the actual blood test comes back, it would probably be significantly lower – unlike alcohol, the dissipation rate for cannabis is rapid, so within two hours, 90 per cent has left the body."
 

cannadan

Well-Known Member
so maybe a base amount should be established for medical users....
like a daily average taken over a couple of months....this is the medical patients base line...
that way impairment only occurs when the patient is say 50 percent above their standard base line reading...
otherwise those of us who are perfectly straight ....but have 55 ng/ml as a base line maybe still will be able to drive.
otherwise I can see us losing the right to drive ...just to basic math....
they will force a lot of capable working people on to disability.
 

CalyxCrusher

Well-Known Member
In 2014, just 2.6 per cent of all impaired-driving charges (1,355 out of 51,637) were for drugs.

"Courts don't like these tests because there's not a level of measurement," Murie said.

In an analysis statement with the draft legislation, Ottawa said that this low offence is "is not directly linked to impairment, but is, rather, based on a precautionary or a crime prevention approach."
The maximum penalty for a criminal offence would be 10 years. This level of THC is "expected to cause some driving impairment," the statement said.
The oral fluid test doesn't show a level – it's just a pass or a fail. But the test only reads fail if you are above 5 nanograms – the criminal level, Murie said.
So basically its a lot of admission of legislation not being based in any fact. Also it's highly discriminatory towards patients. Also assumptive based on the belief that 5 nanograms equals visible impairment. So many holes in this that wont hold up
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
if police believe you're impaired by any drug, you could still face criminal charges.
But you won't face a conviction. They need to prove impairment beyond a reasonable doubt. Unless you are obviously baked and can't walk a straight line, they can prove consumption but not impairment. Consumption is legal.
Just don't smoke in your car - toking while driving IS a crime.
 

HotWaterKarl

Well-Known Member
Meh, leave the dude alone man. He just disagrees with some of y'all? The height of civilization is the ability to agree to disagree.
 

NGA

Well-Known Member
Alcohol & weed are two completely different buddy's , should not even be in the same sentence ,cannot and should not be treated as the same never ever heard of someone having a accident because they had a joint or a bag of it .the last thing we need is some idiot cop being judge and jury on the side of the road
 

WHATFG

Well-Known Member
And that's part of the reason why there are still relatively few drugged-driving charges, even though drugs now show up more often than alcohol in blood tests of drivers killed in crashes. In 2014, just 2.6 per cent of all impaired-driving charges (1,355 out of 51,637) were for drugs.
...and of that 1355 how many were cannabis?
In an analysis statement with the draft legislation, Ottawa said that this low offence is "is not directly linked to impairment, but is, rather, based on a precautionary or a crime prevention approach."
what a crock of shit this is.
This level of THC is "expected to cause some driving impairment," the statement said.
...kind of acknowledging that I might not cause impairment....lol...
"You're over the criminal level of 5 with the roadside oral fluid test," Murie said. "But when the actual blood test comes back, it would probably be significantly lower – unlike alcohol, the dissipation rate for cannabis is rapid, so within two hours, 90 per cent has left the body."
....huh?...90% has left the body? But if I haven't smoked in 2 weeks, it will still show up in a test....what a moron.
 

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
Alcohol & weed are two completely different buddy's
No, they are not.

They both effect the ability of people to perform motor skills and process information. That's the entire idea behind DWI (Driving While Impaired).

Officers, here in the states at any rate, have at their disposal the most powerful thing in the law: discretion. To wit:

The DWI level for alcohol in most states is .08.

BUT

Law enforcement realizes that alcohol effects different people in different ways. What two drinks does to one man is completely different than what two drinks does to the next.

So an officer pulls over one guy for weaving all over the road and running a stop sign. The man acts obviously drunk. He completely flunks the field sobriety test by not knowing his ABC's, not being to do simple coordination tests, and slurring his words. He blows a .08. He's going to jail.

The officer gets the next guy for speeding. He smells a bit of alcohol but appears normal. He freely admits to having two glasses of wine with dinner. He blows a .08, but past the field tests with flying colors as if nothing ever happens. He's probably just getting a speeding ticket and being sent on his way.

Marijuana is no different at all. The joint that just relaxes you and mellows you out a bit may completely destroy the next guy. You could get pulled over and have an officer smell it on you. You come clean and tell him, "yeah, sure. I had one a few hours ago". The officer puts you through a few field tests and you pass with flying colors. He gives you your speeding ticket and sends you on your way.

But the next guy is so stoned off that same joint he can't even unbuckle the seat belt and get out of the car. Then he can't stop laughing long enough to listen to any of the officers instructions. After 20 minutes of hysterical laughter, the man vomits and stumbles and falls to the ground. He's stoned to bejesus to the point he is impaired. Massively.

He is going to jail.

The fact is some people don't know when to quit. They will smoke and smoke and get so far gone you can ask them a question and it takes them 10 minutes to answer you. Their reaction time is about that of a sloth.

You DO NOT want that asshole on the road.

You can't pass judgment on every situation in life based solely on how YOU work. The sad fact is, there are people who are far more adversely impaired by the same amount of pot that you find boring. It's called tolerance level. Not everybody's is the same.

Everybody knew going in that legalization would be faced with enforcement problems. California, Colorado and Canada are all having growing pains with regard to that.

But they are working on it. What you have to remember is that in the end they have only one goal: Keep the people who are impaired from driving through a red light into a family of 6 and killing them all.

The field test is, for the foreseeable future, going to be leading the way for marijuana testing, I'm sure. It's going to take science some time to really iron out how levels effect people and a test that will pin point those levels.
 

CalyxCrusher

Well-Known Member
But the next guy is so stoned off that same joint he can't even unbuckle the seat belt and get out of the car. Then he can't stop laughing long enough to listen to any of the officers instructions. After 20 minutes of hysterical laughter, the man vomits and stumbles and falls to the ground. He's stoned to bejesus to the point he is impaired. Massively.

He is going to jail.

The fact is some people don't know when to quit. They will smoke and smoke and get so far gone you can ask them a question and it takes them 10 minutes to answer you. Their reaction time is about that of a sloth.
Some straight reefer madnes there. Laughing hysterically for 20 minutes? vomits and stumbles?
10 minutes to answer you? Sounds like alcohol. The only time ive seen people act like this in 20+ years, they were either drinking too or had NEVER tried cannabis

Alcohol has a set BAC for what is deemed impaired. Cannabis has no impairment threshold currently listed. Roadside sobriety testing is still the best way to test cannabis impairment as cannabis can vary widely in strength. Not to mention not all cannabis has an intoxicating effect. Yes theyre both intoxicants but they have different effects. If you're under the influence of either you shouldn't put others at risk.
 
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dienowk

Well-Known Member
Marijuana is no different at all. The joint that just relaxes you and mellows you out a bit may completely destroy the next guy. You could get pulled over and have an officer smell it on you. You come clean and tell him, "yeah, sure. I had one a few hours ago". The officer puts you through a few field tests and you pass with flying colors. He gives you your speeding ticket and sends you on your way.

But the next guy is so stoned off that same joint he can't even unbuckle the seat belt and get out of the car. Then he can't stop laughing long enough to listen to any of the officers instructions. After 20 minutes of hysterical laughter, the man vomits and stumbles and falls to the ground. He's stoned to bejesus to the point he is impaired. Massively.
Although people will shit talk you for this it is true. I do not drive if I have smoked within 6-8 hours because I can tell that it actually impairs my ability to do so safely. I quit using cannabis for 9-12 years and when I started again it made it so that I just can't develop much of a tolerance now despite the fact I have been back using it daily for years.
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
No, they are not.





But the next guy is so stoned off that same joint he can't even unbuckle the seat belt and get out of the car. Then he can't stop laughing long enough to listen to any of the officers instructions. After 20 minutes of hysterical laughter, the man vomits and stumbles and falls to the ground. He's stoned to bejesus to the point he is impaired. Massively.
where did you learn this info?
Please splain Lucy.o_O

people who drink think they can
people who smoke know they cant
huge difference dude man?
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
Marijuana is no different at all.
I'm guessing you have never used cannabis? Cannabis and alcohol are NOT the same and they effect your body in a very different way. Impairment is minor and does not affect cognitive or motor skill abilities in the way that alcohol does. A new user may not want to drive for hours after consuming whereas a chronic user will be fine to drive almost immediately after consuming.
Alcohol has a recognized standard BAC that courts have agreed is likely to cause impairment. No such standard THC level is possible.
As I said in a previous post, unless you fail badly at the roadside tests, there is nothing they can do. They need to PROVE impairment beyond a reasonable doubt and right now that ability does not exist.
Why no talk of pharmaceutical-impaired driving? If cannabis related accidents were a problem, they would be shoving the stats down our throat on a daily basis to justify their actions. There are all kinds of stats dissecting alcohol impaired driving, violence and deaths, yet NOTHING when it comes to cannabis. The fact that no such stats exist is evidence that this is merely a manufactured, hypothetical 'problem' and not based on any sort of facts. All this hype to build up public support for police harassment of cannabis users and satisfy their unions.
I don't recommend driving while impaired by ANY substance, but infringing on my liberty due to a smell rather than signs of impairment does not protect my charter rights.
I predict ZERO convictions.
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
Although people will shit talk you for this it is true. I do not drive if I have smoked within 6-8 hours because I can tell that it actually impairs my ability to do so safely. I quit using cannabis for 9-12 years and when I started again it made it so that I just can't develop much of a tolerance now despite the fact I have been back using it daily for years.
that's what you think but it is far from what really occurs.
no one that smokes pot THINKS or FEELS they are safe when they are not!
Its not the same when drinking is involved and ANYONE KNOWS THIS if they have been there and done that ..eh...

left field thinkers
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
Although people will shit talk you for this it is true. I do not drive if I have smoked within 6-8 hours because I can tell that it actually impairs my ability to do so safely. I quit using cannabis for 9-12 years and when I started again it made it so that I just can't develop much of a tolerance now despite the fact I have been back using it daily for years.
That is precisely why no standard level of impairment is possible. I get up between 4 & 5 every morning and have a coffee and medicate. I smoke all day long and go about my business whether it be work or something else. I tend to wait 20-30 minutes after smoking to drive on the roads, but I'll toke while I'm driving the vehicles and equipment in the camp. Others like you are affected differently. There is no 'one size fits all' solution.
As an arthritis and chronic pain sufferer, I would be far more impaired by my disability than I am by cannabis.
 
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