Genetics and breeding

Myett

Member
I wanted to look into breeding my own strains and getting phenotypes I like. I understand the science behind it but dont know how to actually go about it. Are all seeds of the same strain from the same seed bank genetically identical? If they're feminized seeds doesn't that mean the plant reproduced asexually? I assume I'd have to buy regular seeds?
 

Bunnybrew

Well-Known Member
I wanted to look into breeding my own strains and getting phenotypes I like. I understand the science behind it but dont know how to actually go about it. Are all seeds of the same strain from the same seed bank genetically identical? If they're feminized seeds doesn't that mean the plant reproduced asexually? I assume I'd have to buy regular seeds?
Yes only breed with regular seed. And no a pack of seeds from any bank will express many phenotypes
 

Myett

Member
Yes only breed with regular seed. And no a pack of seeds from any bank will express many phenotypes
So if I wanted a certain pehno of say blue dream, id buy different blue dream seeds from different banks? or maybe just cross it with a different strain?
 

blake9999

Well-Known Member
You can buy one pack from said breeder and grow them out. you look for the one exhibiting the traits you looking for and clone/breed it out. Cloning is more viable as you would get an exact duplicate of the parent plant. If you want to breed them you select the strongest male and the female(s) with the trait you looking for and breed them.
 

Bunnybrew

Well-Known Member
So if I wanted a certain pehno of say blue dream, id buy different blue dream seeds from different banks? or maybe just cross it with a different strain?
No. You buy just one pack of BD and it will have many phenotypes. 99% of the time any strain selected will be this way. Its very rare for a strain to truely be worked with enough to provide clone like growth from all seeds in the same pack
 

dtl420

Well-Known Member
It would take many years to stabilize your strain to give consistent pheno's in seed form. Think of it like breeding animals. Hypothetically speaking, if you had a black dog and a white dog and you wanted a grey dog, you would bread the 2. Some of the offspring will be black and some white, some with spots, and maybe a grey one. If you don't get the grey one you try it again, and again, and again. Eventually you get a male grey dog, so you breed it with a grey female. Some of the offspring may be black or white because of the genetic traits in the gene pool. If the majority of them are black or white it's considered a dominate trait, and you keep going until the recessive (grey) trait becomes a dominate trait. But There will always be those recessive traits there. It may be 10 generations later with consistent grey dogs, then all the sudden there is a black or white dog in the litter.

The same holds true for weed. As growers, say we're growing a strain like GDP. We get a seed pack from a breeder, and to do it right, we pop all the seeds. Keep these as mothers, and flower a clone from each. It's possible that there might not even be a purple flowering plant in the population if the genetics haven't been worked enough. Flower out the mothers that don't exhibit the traits you desire, or otherwise get rid of them (you don't want those phenotypes). Now as a grower you will keep those mothers that exhibit the desired traits and only grow clones from them. As a breeder, say you want the purp from the GDP, but you want the sativa high and diesel smell from the sour D. You'll need males of each strain. This is where it gets tricky, because males, even though they don't produce buds, still carry genes that will effect the female flowers in their crosses. So you have to take multiple clones of the female that exhibits some desired traits, and cross each of them with a different male. Now grow out some mothers from these seeds, and flower the clones and compare the differences to try to isolate the genes given by the father. Once you've found the male that carries the genes you want you start working the recessive traits out. This is where you get into F1's F2's, and so on.. F stands for filial generation. You then proceed to find mothers from the f1, f2, ect generations that are purple sour d. You can back cross, BX, by pollenating a later filial generation with the original father or original mother. And keep working and working and working until the vast majority of the population is purple sour d. At this point you can look at the provided link from @blake9999 and feminize your genetics, which will still produce random genetics, but far more consistent than feminizing the f1 generation.

Unless you're trying to sell seeds, you're best bet is to simply find a mother plant that exhibits the desired traits and just flower clones from her. It takes many years to stabilize a strain, and a lot more space than most growers have. If you still want to start breeding and want a more in-depth explanation than this, contact someone like @RM3 who is a breeder. I'm sure there are more breeders than just him on RIU, but he's the only one I know of.
 

Myett

Member
It would take many years to stabilize your strain to give consistent pheno's in seed form. Think of it like breeding animals. Hypothetically speaking, if you had a black dog and a white dog and you wanted a grey dog, you would bread the 2. Some of the offspring will be black and some white, some with spots, and maybe a grey one. If you don't get the grey one you try it again, and again, and again. Eventually you get a male grey dog, so you breed it with a grey female. Some of the offspring may be black or white because of the genetic traits in the gene pool. If the majority of them are black or white it's considered a dominate trait, and you keep going until the recessive (grey) trait becomes a dominate trait. But There will always be those recessive traits there. It may be 10 generations later with consistent grey dogs, then all the sudden there is a black or white dog in the litter.

The same holds true for weed. As growers, say we're growing a strain like GDP. We get a seed pack from a breeder, and to do it right, we pop all the seeds. Keep these as mothers, and flower a clone from each. It's possible that there might not even be a purple flowering plant in the population if the genetics haven't been worked enough. Flower out the mothers that don't exhibit the traits you desire, or otherwise get rid of them (you don't want those phenotypes). Now as a grower you will keep those mothers that exhibit the desired traits and only grow clones from them. As a breeder, say you want the purp from the GDP, but you want the sativa high and diesel smell from the sour D. You'll need males of each strain. This is where it gets tricky, because males, even though they don't produce buds, still carry genes that will effect the female flowers in their crosses. So you have to take multiple clones of the female that exhibits some desired traits, and cross each of them with a different male. Now grow out some mothers from these seeds, and flower the clones and compare the differences to try to isolate the genes given by the father. Once you've found the male that carries the genes you want you start working the recessive traits out. This is where you get into F1's F2's, and so on.. F stands for filial generation. You then proceed to find mothers from the f1, f2, ect generations that are purple sour d. You can back cross, BX, by pollenating a later filial generation with the original father or original mother. And keep working and working and working until the vast majority of the population is purple sour d. At this point you can look at the provided link from @blake9999 and feminize your genetics, which will still produce random genetics, but far more consistent than feminizing the f1 generation.

Unless you're trying to sell seeds, you're best bet is to simply find a mother plant that exhibits the desired traits and just flower clones from her. It takes many years to stabilize a strain, and a lot more space than most growers have. If you still want to start breeding and want a more in-depth explanation than this, contact someone like @RM3 who is a breeder. I'm sure there are more breeders than just him on RIU, but he's the only one I know of.
first, thanks for the long informative answer i appreciate it. So basically the best way going about consistently getting traits i want is cloning. How long do you keep your mother plants for, I would guess eventually you grow out a clone to replace it? and my last question is if strains are relatively consistent between seed banks, like if i got a white widow from 2 different banks would they be practically the same?
 

dtl420

Well-Known Member
first, thanks for the long informative answer i appreciate it. So basically the best way going about consistently getting traits i want is cloning. How long do you keep your mother plants for, I would guess eventually you grow out a clone to replace it? and my last question is if strains are relatively consistent between seed banks, like if i got a white widow from 2 different banks would they be practically the same?
I don't mess with clones too much. I like to have variety, get bored when I grow the same strain more than a couple times. And I'm not super concerned with having a plant that exhibits the specific phenotypes as long as it's good weed.

But if you are interested in growing a specific strain for a while, then yes. You would keep one mother, or how ever many you need to fill your grow space with clones. Considering you are repeating the same identical genetics, it should yield the same or better each time you grow it as you figure out exactly what it wants. Eventually you might see your yields start to drop, then it might be time for a new mother. None of this is from personal experience, it's just what I've read and been told. Like I said, I like variety. I have a Tupperware with many different strains to choose from. It'll take me many years to get bored with what I've got.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
It would take many years to stabilize your strain to give consistent pheno's in seed form. Think of it like breeding animals. Hypothetically speaking, if you had a black dog and a white dog and you wanted a grey dog, you would bread the 2. Some of the offspring will be black and some white, some with spots, and maybe a grey one. If you don't get the grey one you try it again, and again, and again. Eventually you get a male grey dog, so you breed it with a grey female. Some of the offspring may be black or white because of the genetic traits in the gene pool. If the majority of them are black or white it's considered a dominate trait, and you keep going until the recessive (grey) trait becomes a dominate trait. But There will always be those recessive traits there. It may be 10 generations later with consistent grey dogs, then all the sudden there is a black or white dog in the litter.

The same holds true for weed. As growers, say we're growing a strain like GDP. We get a seed pack from a breeder, and to do it right, we pop all the seeds. Keep these as mothers, and flower a clone from each. It's possible that there might not even be a purple flowering plant in the population if the genetics haven't been worked enough. Flower out the mothers that don't exhibit the traits you desire, or otherwise get rid of them (you don't want those phenotypes). Now as a grower you will keep those mothers that exhibit the desired traits and only grow clones from them. As a breeder, say you want the purp from the GDP, but you want the sativa high and diesel smell from the sour D. You'll need males of each strain. This is where it gets tricky, because males, even though they don't produce buds, still carry genes that will effect the female flowers in their crosses. So you have to take multiple clones of the female that exhibits some desired traits, and cross each of them with a different male. Now grow out some mothers from these seeds, and flower the clones and compare the differences to try to isolate the genes given by the father. Once you've found the male that carries the genes you want you start working the recessive traits out. This is where you get into F1's F2's, and so on.. F stands for filial generation. You then proceed to find mothers from the f1, f2, ect generations that are purple sour d. You can back cross, BX, by pollenating a later filial generation with the original father or original mother. And keep working and working and working until the vast majority of the population is purple sour d. At this point you can look at the provided link from @blake9999 and feminize your genetics, which will still produce random genetics, but far more consistent than feminizing the f1 generation.

Unless you're trying to sell seeds, you're best bet is to simply find a mother plant that exhibits the desired traits and just flower clones from her. It takes many years to stabilize a strain, and a lot more space than most growers have. If you still want to start breeding and want a more in-depth explanation than this, contact someone like @RM3 who is a breeder. I'm sure there are more breeders than just him on RIU, but he's the only one I know of.
Damn. Well said
 

OzCocoLoco

Well-Known Member
Yes only breed with regular seed. And no a pack of seeds from any bank will express many phenotypes
If the parent/s and offspring is properly tested there is nothing wrong with using a plant from fem seeds to breed with,in some cases using an s1 will actually work in your advantage when trying to stabilise traits.
 

907cannabis

Well-Known Member
I think there should be an entire forum dedicated to genetics and breeding around here and not just "seed and strain reviews" and various threads with discussions on the topic... What's up with that?
 

907cannabis

Well-Known Member
If the parent/s and offspring is properly tested there is nothing wrong with using a plant from fem seeds to breed with,in some cases using an s1 will actually work in your advantage when trying to stabilise traits.
Properly tested? Can you tell me what that means? I've always heard that was a no no due to the hermie gene having a chance to come out but then again gg#4 was made from an accidental hermie. (Most banks have a warning label on gg4 to watch for hermies).
 

OzCocoLoco

Well-Known Member
Properly tested? Can you tell me what that means? I've always heard that was a no no due to the hermie gene having a chance to come out but then again gg#4 was made from an accidental hermie. (Most banks have a warning label on gg4 to watch for hermies).
Just the same as any “regular” plant both male and female should be stress tested before being bred with. GG#4 wasn’t really bred it was the result of multiple stress induced herms whereas feminised is made from chemically inducing hermaphroditism so the resulting progeny should have no more chance Of carrying a hermaphrodite trait than any other seed.
 

907cannabis

Well-Known Member
Just the same as any “regular” plant both male and female should be stress tested before being bred with. GG#4 wasn’t really bred it was the result of multiple stress induced herms whereas feminised is made from chemically inducing hermaphroditism so the resulting progeny should have no more chance Of carrying a hermaphrodite trait than any other seed.
Any way I could breed to get rid of a hermie trait?
 

OzCocoLoco

Well-Known Member
Any way I could breed to get rid of a hermie trait?
Not really sure but you’d have to find a male that would be dominant in the gene pairing that is responsible for the herm trait and the only way I know to find that out would be to make seeds and heavily stress test the resulting generations. To do properly it would take a lot of time and space and may not work.
 

Ringsixty

Well-Known Member
It would take many years to stabilize your strain to give consistent pheno's in seed form. Think of it like breeding animals. Hypothetically speaking, if you had a black dog and a white dog and you wanted a grey dog, you would bread the 2. Some of the offspring will be black and some white, some with spots, and maybe a grey one. If you don't get the grey one you try it again, and again, and again. Eventually you get a male grey dog, so you breed it with a grey female. Some of the offspring may be black or white because of the genetic traits in the gene pool. If the majority of them are black or white it's considered a dominate trait, and you keep going until the recessive (grey) trait becomes a dominate trait. But There will always be those recessive traits there. It may be 10 generations later with consistent grey dogs, then all the sudden there is a black or white dog in the litter.

The same holds true for weed. As growers, say we're growing a strain like GDP. We get a seed pack from a breeder, and to do it right, we pop all the seeds. Keep these as mothers, and flower a clone from each. It's possible that there might not even be a purple flowering plant in the population if the genetics haven't been worked enough. Flower out the mothers that don't exhibit the traits you desire, or otherwise get rid of them (you don't want those phenotypes). Now as a grower you will keep those mothers that exhibit the desired traits and only grow clones from them. As a breeder, say you want the purp from the GDP, but you want the sativa high and diesel smell from the sour D. You'll need males of each strain. This is where it gets tricky, because males, even though they don't produce buds, still carry genes that will effect the female flowers in their crosses. So you have to take multiple clones of the female that exhibits some desired traits, and cross each of them with a different male. Now grow out some mothers from these seeds, and flower the clones and compare the differences to try to isolate the genes given by the father. Once you've found the male that carries the genes you want you start working the recessive traits out. This is where you get into F1's F2's, and so on.. F stands for filial generation. You then proceed to find mothers from the f1, f2, ect generations that are purple sour d. You can back cross, BX, by pollenating a later filial generation with the original father or original mother. And keep working and working and working until the vast majority of the population is purple sour d. At this point you can look at the provided link from @blake9999 and feminize your genetics, which will still produce random genetics, but far more consistent than feminizing the f1 generation.

Unless you're trying to sell seeds, you're best bet is to simply find a mother plant that exhibits the desired traits and just flower clones from her. It takes many years to stabilize a strain, and a lot more space than most growers have. If you still want to start breeding and want a more in-depth explanation than this, contact someone like @RM3 who is a breeder. I'm sure there are more breeders than just him on RIU, but he's the only one I know of.
Agree :weed:
 

silclay

Member
I have seeds that I think will be useful for breeding Cold Resistant strains
The plants don't have amazing buds but if someone could cross these with a heavy hitter I hope one phenotype will get through cold weather fine
Message me - I can post them to you
 
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